Comments on: NYT public editor weighs in on Tesla/Musk drama, throws Broder under electric car http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 19 May 2013 18:09:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: SSG Geezer http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1662202 SSG Geezer Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1662202 When the power companies were forced to buy back excess power from home producers at a fraction of retail price, there were privately owned dams that earned quite a bit of money for their owners. After deregulation, the power companies were not required by the PUC to buy back the power, so they didn't.  The original high capacity of Maine's electrical grid was to support all of the manufacturing plants that are now mostly closed. Less electricity at a higher price is what makes CMP and FPL's shareholders happy. When the power companies were forced to buy back excess power from home producers at a fraction of retail price, there were privately owned dams that earned quite a bit of money for their owners.
After deregulation, the power companies were not required by the PUC to buy back the power, so they didn’t.  The original high capacity of Maine’s electrical grid was to support all of the manufacturing plants that are now mostly closed.
Less electricity at a higher price is what makes CMP and FPL’s shareholders happy.

]]> By: C W http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1661407 C W Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:51:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1661407 "Then they deregulated, no one could make even 1 cent per KWH" Deregulation leading to a drop in utility profits? Has that ever happened anywhere at any point without Enron maths? “Then they deregulated, no one could make even 1 cent per KWH”

Deregulation leading to a drop in utility profits? Has that ever happened anywhere at any point without Enron maths?

]]> By: C W http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1661403 C W Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1661403 "the real solution is to accept actual consumer behavior as a given" Why don't we have a roaming gas truck service instead of AAA and tow trucks, then? We've had ICEs long enough, you'd think people would learn to use them better. “the real solution is to accept actual consumer behavior as a given”

Why don’t we have a roaming gas truck service instead of AAA and tow trucks, then? We’ve had ICEs long enough, you’d think people would learn to use them better.

]]> By: SSG Geezer http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1661308 SSG Geezer Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1661308 Just stating facts about our current situation with the supply situation. Here in Maine we once had a surplus of power and had a great deal generated at privately owned hydro facilities. Then they deregulated, no one could make even 1 cent per KWH, so they quit feeding the grid.  Now we pay over 18 cents per KWH for electricity supplied by Florida Power and Light over our local supplier's lines.  I never claimed to have a solution, but I don't see how coal powered cars are an environmental improvement over an efficient diesel or gasoline economy car. Just stating facts about our current situation with the supply situation. Here in Maine we once had a surplus of power and had a great deal generated at privately owned hydro facilities. Then they deregulated, no one could make even 1 cent per KWH, so they quit feeding the grid.  Now we pay over 18 cents per KWH for electricity supplied by Florida Power and Light over our local supplier’s lines.  I never claimed to have a solution, but I don’t see how coal powered cars are an environmental improvement over an efficient diesel or gasoline economy car.

]]> By: triplesec_ice http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1661307 triplesec_ice Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1661307 Hugely important ppoint, and one ignored by most engineer types. Musk's egocentrism is the issue here, where a good faith user is excoriated becayse he didn't use perfect and complete knowledge, because he's not Musk. Hugely important ppoint, and one ignored by most engineer types. Musk’s egocentrism is the issue here, where a good faith user is excoriated becayse he didn’t use perfect and complete knowledge, because he’s not Musk.

]]> By: tech33 http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1661076 tech33 Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1661076 So exactly why should I buy the New York Times paper or subscribe online when at best sloppy journalism as presented by Broder is somehow acceptable because he might have had the right intentions on the outset? Shouldn't his intention as an NYT reporter is be accurate? Exactly what am I not getting here? And why are we angry at Musk for calling this out? Isn't that blaming the victim? So exactly why should I buy the New York Times paper or subscribe online when at best sloppy journalism as presented by Broder is somehow acceptable because he might have had the right intentions on the outset? Shouldn’t his intention as an NYT reporter is be accurate? Exactly what am I not getting here? And why are we angry at Musk for calling this out? Isn’t that blaming the victim?

]]> By: Eric0142 http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660667 Eric0142 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660667 "They only got really terrible after eBay bought them." That is a bald faced lie and I have the data to prove it! “They only got really terrible after eBay bought them.”

That is a bald faced lie and I have the data to prove it!

]]> By: euansmith http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660664 euansmith Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660664  :D  :D

]]> By: redesigned http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660594 redesigned Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:18:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660594 too bad i cannot lick myself... too bad i cannot lick myself…

]]> By: redesigned http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660589 redesigned Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:13:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660589 it was a very funny and clever comment but you are reading way to much into it. the mistake is criticizing what you've incorrectly misread into a comment as if it was what the comments author actually wrote. it was a very funny and clever comment but you are reading way to much into it.

the mistake is criticizing what you’ve incorrectly misread into a comment as if it was what the comments author actually wrote.

]]> By: redesigned http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660579 redesigned Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660579  but this one tastes like butterscotch.  but this one tastes like butterscotch.

]]> By: Alexander Borsi http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660570 Alexander Borsi Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:03:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660570 What I want to know is the ratio of Musk crying foul, and how many times those cries were valid. His SNR, if you would. I mean if he cries foul a LOT but his claims are MOSTLY valid... Then he's not doing anything wrong. But if they are mostly proven otherwise... Well. Then that's not cool. What I want to know is the ratio of Musk crying foul, and how many times those cries were valid. His SNR, if you would.

I mean if he cries foul a LOT but his claims are MOSTLY valid… Then he’s not doing anything wrong. But if they are mostly proven otherwise… Well. Then that’s not cool.

]]> By: wysinwyg http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660445 wysinwyg Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:40:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660445  This is simpler than you're making it.  C W suggested that NYT should be less biased than Tesla because it is a journalistic enterprise.  Lemoutan pointed out that the NYT, besides being a journalistic enterprise, is also -- like Tesla -- a profit-optimizing privately held corporation with a PR department. Lemoutan neither said nor implied anything about lax standards or influence on their reporting.  You are free to draw your own inferences about the extent to which NYT engages in damage control but I think it would be a little silly to argue they never do this in any capacity whatsoever.  This is simpler than you’re making it.  C W suggested that NYT should be less biased than Tesla because it is a journalistic enterprise.  Lemoutan pointed out that the NYT, besides being a journalistic enterprise, is also — like Tesla — a profit-optimizing privately held corporation with a PR department.

Lemoutan neither said nor implied anything about lax standards or influence on their reporting.  You are free to draw your own inferences about the extent to which NYT engages in damage control but I think it would be a little silly to argue they never do this in any capacity whatsoever.

]]> By: archvillain http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660433 archvillain Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660433 Roadtrips is a thing that people only started doing because it fit well with the new abilities of a new technology. In the future, we will be doing new things because they fit well with the new abilities of a new technology. Since we suck at futurism, I'll make a silly example - price of gas goes up, price of batteries goes down, having one car, and having that car electric, might in the future mean spending $400 on a fuel per year instead of $4000, which in turn may mean that instead of one of those old roadtrips like grandpa (ie us of today) used to do, people gravitate towards regular leisure cruiseship vacations instead. No, it's not going to work out like that, but it's kind of short circular to argue that a behavior (roadtrips) that only came into existence because of newer better kinds of buggy replacing horses, is the reason we must avoid newer, better kinds of buggies. Analogy that might show how I see it - some musicians became ultra-wealthy because of advances in recorded music technology a few decades ago. More recently, greater advances in that technology (and in the evil of record companies) has all but ended that era, and plenty of people mourn that and resist the loss of music leading to ultra-wealth. Fair enough - ultra-wealth is a cool thing and I can understand that people don't want to lose that system. But the new era is still better than the last, more people are better off, even though the musicians aren't getting as ultra-wealthy as some could under the older tech. Roadtrips is a thing that people only started doing because it fit well with the new abilities of a new technology. In the future, we will be doing new things because they fit well with the new abilities of a new technology. Since we suck at futurism, I’ll make a silly example – price of gas goes up, price of batteries goes down, having one car, and having that car electric, might in the future mean spending $400 on a fuel per year instead of $4000, which in turn may mean that instead of one of those old roadtrips like grandpa (ie us of today) used to do, people gravitate towards regular leisure cruiseship vacations instead. No, it’s not going to work out like that, but it’s kind of short circular to argue that a behavior (roadtrips) that only came into existence because of newer better kinds of buggy replacing horses, is the reason we must avoid newer, better kinds of buggies.
Analogy that might show how I see it – some musicians became ultra-wealthy because of advances in recorded music technology a few decades ago. More recently, greater advances in that technology (and in the evil of record companies) has all but ended that era, and plenty of people mourn that and resist the loss of music leading to ultra-wealth. Fair enough – ultra-wealth is a cool thing and I can understand that people don’t want to lose that system. But the new era is still better than the last, more people are better off, even though the musicians aren’t getting as ultra-wealthy as some could under the older tech.

]]> By: dl44t http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660432 dl44t Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660432 proving once again... it's easier to be a cynic than a visionary. proving once again… it’s easier to be a cynic than a visionary.

]]> By: archvillain http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660399 archvillain Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:12:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660399 Another charging station along the way would make no difference. If a consumer is happy to start a trip knowing they have half as much gas in the tank as they will need to get to the next gas station, then adding gas stations doesn't change that - it just means they'll be happy to drive on even less gas, and still run out just as often. Another charging station along the way would make no difference. If a consumer is happy to start a trip knowing they have half as much gas in the tank as they will need to get to the next gas station, then adding gas stations doesn’t change that – it just means they’ll be happy to drive on even less gas, and still run out just as often.

]]> By: invictus http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660374 invictus Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:52:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660374 There seems to be some recursive licking going on in this thread. There seems to be some recursive licking going on in this thread.

]]> By: Slartibartfatsdomino http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660368 Slartibartfatsdomino Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660368 I understood the humor. I also understood the humor was being deployed to make a certain rhetorical point. A point that was inaccurate, as I pointed out.  I understood the humor. I also understood the humor was being deployed to make a certain rhetorical point. A point that was inaccurate, as I pointed out. 

]]> By: anderlan http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660357 anderlan Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660357 Broder made some real points about decreased range in the cold, especially overnight.  But he disconnected his car from a charger when the range said 32 miles, when he wanted to go 61 miles.  The car made it 51 miles before Broder achieved his goal of running out of gas like an idiot. He said Tesla techs told him to charge it only an hour, so he did what they said.  He was trying to trap them and run out of gas.  That's what he did. If it's too hard for 'ordinary' folks to understand that "32 miles" on the dashboard means that the car can't go 61 miles, then EVs are certainly too new-fangled for ordinary folks.  Like Broder.  Fail. Broder made some real points about decreased range in the cold, especially overnight.  But he disconnected his car from a charger when the range said 32 miles, when he wanted to go 61 miles.  The car made it 51 miles before Broder achieved his goal of running out of gas like an idiot.

He said Tesla techs told him to charge it only an hour, so he did what they said.  He was trying to trap them and run out of gas.  That’s what he did.

If it’s too hard for ‘ordinary’ folks to understand that “32 miles” on the dashboard means that the car can’t go 61 miles, then EVs are certainly too new-fangled for ordinary folks.  Like Broder.  Fail.

]]> By: Joe Vanegas http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660349 Joe Vanegas Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:32:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660349 I think the tl;dr of the tl;dr is that many consumers will need factory tech support sitting in the passenger seat. I think the tl;dr of the tl;dr is that many consumers will need factory tech support sitting in the passenger seat.

]]> By: Joe Vanegas http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660341 Joe Vanegas Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:29:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660341  That was not my message. He just needed another charging station along the route to have the necessary margin of security. I hope Tesla installs a few more, then this trip should be rather routine regardless of how one drives.  That was not my message. He just needed another charging station along the route to have the necessary margin of security. I hope Tesla installs a few more, then this trip should be rather routine regardless of how one drives.

]]> By: Joe Vanegas http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660339 Joe Vanegas Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660339  If the customer who calls customer service doesn't then understand how to do the right thing, it is prima facie evidence that customer service was inadequate. (Obviously that is a common situation!)  While it makes you feel good, it is usually counterproductive to your business to decide that you are right and your customer is an idiot.  You run out of idiot customers pretty fast.  If the customer who calls customer service doesn’t then understand how to do the right thing, it is prima facie evidence that customer service was inadequate. (Obviously that is a common situation!) 

While it makes you feel good, it is usually counterproductive to your business to decide that you are right and your customer is an idiot.  You run out of idiot customers pretty fast.

]]> By: Joe Vanegas http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660335 Joe Vanegas Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660335  I would say that the real solution is to accept actual consumer behavior as a given, and to put an additional charging station in place before saying the car is ready for long-distance driving. BTW-I don't think there is anything wrong with the car. The problem is with Tesla's marketing and customer support not being quite aligned with consumer reality.  I would say that the real solution is to accept actual consumer behavior as a given, and to put an additional charging station in place before saying the car is ready for long-distance driving.

BTW-I don’t think there is anything wrong with the car. The problem is with Tesla’s marketing and customer support not being quite aligned with consumer reality.

]]> By: Felton / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660311 Felton / Moderator Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:09:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660311 I just licked your comment. Heh! I just licked your comment. Heh!

]]> By: paul beard http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660309 paul beard Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660309 I think this is a perfect storm of rigid inflexible design and a less than rigorous review/test drive. He drove the car like a car, as people do, with the ingrained habits and customs of a mature ecosystem. I suspect Tesla will take some of this on board and incorporate it in their design decisions, even if it just means more detailed delivery instructions. I think this is a perfect storm of rigid inflexible design and a less than rigorous review/test drive. He drove the car like a car, as people do, with the ingrained habits and customs of a mature ecosystem. I suspect Tesla will take some of this on board and incorporate it in their design decisions, even if it just means more detailed delivery instructions.

]]> By: peregrinus http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660304 peregrinus Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:02:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660304 That is too bad - what shall we do? That is too bad – what shall we do?

]]> By: Lemoutan http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660302 Lemoutan Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:01:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660302 I've just lost track of what you're criticising is all. As it can hardly be my initial observation (if it <em>is</em> then you've yet to explain what's wrong with it), it can only be this massive edifice of motive and slander that you've constructed out of it. I’ve just lost track of what you’re criticising is all. As it can hardly be my initial observation (if it is then you’ve yet to explain what’s wrong with it), it can only be this massive edifice of motive and slander that you’ve constructed out of it.

]]> By: C W http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660293 C W Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660293 "Is the dichotomy false?" Yes. "The Media" is (with exceptions) a series of profit-seeking corporations. “Is the dichotomy false?”

Yes. “The Media” is (with exceptions) a series of profit-seeking corporations.

]]> By: ApostateGland http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660289 ApostateGland Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:53:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660289 Who's policing what you say? You make an assertion, be prepared for it to be open to criticism - you know, similar to what's going on with this Broder-Musk-Sullivan stuff. And the problems I have with your assertions relate to them not being based on any sort of evidence or proof - just your "perlocutionary intent" (also: really?).  Who’s policing what you say? You make an assertion, be prepared for it to be open to criticism – you know, similar to what’s going on with this Broder-Musk-Sullivan stuff.

And the problems I have with your assertions relate to them not being based on any sort of evidence or proof – just your “perlocutionary intent” (also: really?). 

]]> By: Pag http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/nyt-public-editor-weighs-in-on.html#comment-1660284 Pag Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=214134#comment-1660284  Do you have a tl;dr version of your tl;dr version?  Do you have a tl;dr version of your tl;dr version?

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