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	<title>Comments on: Students get class-wide As by boycotting test, solving Prisoner&#039;s&#160;Dilemma</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Aleksandar Kostadinov</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1661212</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleksandar Kostadinov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1661212</guid>
		<description> In my university you don&#039;t receive a grade if you don&#039;t take the exam. In this case it would have been a prisoners dilemma because everybody would have been required to enter the room and return blank exams. And then it would have been only trust between them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> In my university you don&#8217;t receive a grade if you don&#8217;t take the exam. In this case it would have been a prisoners dilemma because everybody would have been required to enter the room and return blank exams. And then it would have been only trust between them. </p>
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		<title>By: Rindan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1661032</link>
		<dc:creator>Rindan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1661032</guid>
		<description>There are a few things that make PD.  The most important element in my mind is a reward if you defect and others cooperate.  This didn&#039;t have that.  Defect, and everyone defects with you, and you battle for an A with blood and tears.  Cooperate, knowing that you can change to defecting if anyone enters the room, and you all get an A.  Cooperation is the only rational choice.  Not only does it offer the best reward, an A, but if you see someone being stupid and defecting, you can go defect with them.

If the prof wanted to make it more of a PD type scenario, he could say that if everyone gets a zero, everyone will get a B.  Further, the test will be a take home test that is e-mailed in.  Now, you have no chance to know if someone is defecting and thus can&#039;t switch to defect yourself, and the reward for defecting if everyone cooperates is an A, which is better than cooperating that gets you only a B and the possibility of an F if someone defects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a few things that make PD.  The most important element in my mind is a reward if you defect and others cooperate.  This didn&#8217;t have that.  Defect, and everyone defects with you, and you battle for an A with blood and tears.  Cooperate, knowing that you can change to defecting if anyone enters the room, and you all get an A.  Cooperation is the only rational choice.  Not only does it offer the best reward, an A, but if you see someone being stupid and defecting, you can go defect with them.</p>
<p>If the prof wanted to make it more of a PD type scenario, he could say that if everyone gets a zero, everyone will get a B.  Further, the test will be a take home test that is e-mailed in.  Now, you have no chance to know if someone is defecting and thus can&#8217;t switch to defect yourself, and the reward for defecting if everyone cooperates is an A, which is better than cooperating that gets you only a B and the possibility of an F if someone defects.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1661028</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1661028</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s the point?  For the professor to have some intricately detailed knowledge of the capabilities of the students is useless to anything except the professor&#039;s sense of self.  Grades should be objective (for material that can be graded objectively.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the point?  For the professor to have some intricately detailed knowledge of the capabilities of the students is useless to anything except the professor&#8217;s sense of self.  Grades should be objective (for material that can be graded objectively.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Ley</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1661020</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Ley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1661020</guid>
		<description>I am paid very well, and have never had someone pick over my transcript like that. If they did, I&#039;d probably not be interested in them as an employer, since they also probably want your facebook password and keys to your bedroom (both of which cost far more than they are willing to pay). Smart employers value teamwork, communication, creativity and problem solving - people who are good at that are expensive. People who just sit down and do as they are told are a dime a dozen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am paid very well, and have never had someone pick over my transcript like that. If they did, I&#8217;d probably not be interested in them as an employer, since they also probably want your facebook password and keys to your bedroom (both of which cost far more than they are willing to pay). Smart employers value teamwork, communication, creativity and problem solving &#8211; people who are good at that are expensive. People who just sit down and do as they are told are a dime a dozen.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Ley</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1661018</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Ley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1661018</guid>
		<description>To a scientist, the point of the curve is obvious. Imagine trying to study the length of lizards, but you only had a 6&quot; ruler. You&#039;d have this big list of &quot;lizard lengths&quot; ranging from 2&quot; to 6&quot;, then a huge number of &quot;more than 6 inches&quot; - the data would be useless.

The same is true for grading, if people get 100% scores, then you can&#039;t really analyze the performance of the group because they have brickwalled your dataset. If the test is designed to result in a 70% score for someone who really understands the material, it allows you to see who is above that (and maybe why), while not giving Cs to the people who have done what you asked them to do.

It is uncommon for the curve to be so arbitrary (like in this professors example) - usually it is a bit more structured, and still centered around some pre-determined standard of success (that just may be a value less than 100%).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To a scientist, the point of the curve is obvious. Imagine trying to study the length of lizards, but you only had a 6&#8243; ruler. You&#8217;d have this big list of &#8220;lizard lengths&#8221; ranging from 2&#8243; to 6&#8243;, then a huge number of &#8220;more than 6 inches&#8221; &#8211; the data would be useless.</p>
<p>The same is true for grading, if people get 100% scores, then you can&#8217;t really analyze the performance of the group because they have brickwalled your dataset. If the test is designed to result in a 70% score for someone who really understands the material, it allows you to see who is above that (and maybe why), while not giving Cs to the people who have done what you asked them to do.</p>
<p>It is uncommon for the curve to be so arbitrary (like in this professors example) &#8211; usually it is a bit more structured, and still centered around some pre-determined standard of success (that just may be a value less than 100%).</p>
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		<title>By: MB44</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660832</link>
		<dc:creator>MB44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660832</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s why everyone waited outside of the door. If one selfish person went in then they would all go in and take the test. If this had been an online test then we would have had something to really talk about because all would have to separately depend on the other to keep their word. That would have been impressive. This is just students with solid analysis that saw a flaw in the professor&#039;s system and came together to guarantee themselves good grades. Since it was a one time thing (for the final) they all came out of it well. The professor changed his grading after this, which is good. His grading system was douchey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s why everyone waited outside of the door. If one selfish person went in then they would all go in and take the test. If this had been an online test then we would have had something to really talk about because all would have to separately depend on the other to keep their word. That would have been impressive. This is just students with solid analysis that saw a flaw in the professor&#8217;s system and came together to guarantee themselves good grades. Since it was a one time thing (for the final) they all came out of it well. The professor changed his grading after this, which is good. His grading system was douchey.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660822</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660822</guid>
		<description>Stolen from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107165/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spanish film of the same name&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stolen from the <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107165/" rel="nofollow">Spanish film of the same name</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: John Napsterista</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660772</link>
		<dc:creator>John Napsterista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660772</guid>
		<description> &lt;i&gt;I would have broken it.&lt;/i&gt;

Christ, what an asshole.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <i>I would have broken it.</i></p>
<p>Christ, what an asshole.  </p>
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		<title>By: A Viescas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660515</link>
		<dc:creator>A Viescas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 19:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660515</guid>
		<description> Oh man, can&#039;t believe I didn&#039;t remember that. Well done... you and Britain both. =P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Oh man, can&#8217;t believe I didn&#8217;t remember that. Well done&#8230; you and Britain both. =P</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Farnell</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660491</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Farnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 19:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660491</guid>
		<description>Okay, I am not making this up. The British gameshow was called Golden Balls. No, really, look:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Balls


I&#039;ve seen it with my own eyes! Someone actually did that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I am not making this up. The British gameshow was called Golden Balls. No, really, look:  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Balls" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Balls</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen it with my own eyes! Someone actually did that!</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Mather</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660322</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Mather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660322</guid>
		<description>They won&#039;t feel quite so bright if any future tight-ass employer ever asks for their transcript, the list of raw scores for all of their courses over all of their years along with the break down of weightings as it will show they received a zero score. This will almost certainly be questioned at which point said tight-ass employers (who also tend to be the best when it comes to salary) will discover that their future potential employee is quite happy to strike, which whilst I might consider a perfectly sensible course of action tends to get frowned at in the US as I understand these things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They won&#8217;t feel quite so bright if any future tight-ass employer ever asks for their transcript, the list of raw scores for all of their courses over all of their years along with the break down of weightings as it will show they received a zero score. This will almost certainly be questioned at which point said tight-ass employers (who also tend to be the best when it comes to salary) will discover that their future potential employee is quite happy to strike, which whilst I might consider a perfectly sensible course of action tends to get frowned at in the US as I understand these things?</p>
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		<title>By: SomeGuyNamedMark</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660260</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeGuyNamedMark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660260</guid>
		<description>One person being selfish could&#039;ve ruined it for everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One person being selfish could&#8217;ve ruined it for everyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Marja Erwin</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660252</link>
		<dc:creator>Marja Erwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660252</guid>
		<description>I have manual disabilities which can sometimes make it painful to write or type. I learned to do a lot of problems in my head, if need be, and I got burned for not showing my work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have manual disabilities which can sometimes make it painful to write or type. I learned to do a lot of problems in my head, if need be, and I got burned for not showing my work.</p>
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		<title>By: ErikF</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660209</link>
		<dc:creator>ErikF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660209</guid>
		<description>The teacher didn&#039;t take a philosophical view of their actions, he took a fatalistic view. All responses are philosophical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The teacher didn&#8217;t take a philosophical view of their actions, he took a fatalistic view. All responses are philosophical.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Vignolo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660205</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Vignolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660205</guid>
		<description>This illustrates &quot;divide and conquer&quot; versus the power of group action.

If one person refuses to pay his taxes he will likely go to jail. But if everybody refuses to pay what will the authorities do then?

This is how centralized authority succeeds. If you keep the governed population separated into individuals and small groups you can easily subjugate them through fear. But if they organize into larger groups it becomes more difficult to pick them all off.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This illustrates &#8220;divide and conquer&#8221; versus the power of group action.</p>
<p>If one person refuses to pay his taxes he will likely go to jail. But if everybody refuses to pay what will the authorities do then?</p>
<p>This is how centralized authority succeeds. If you keep the governed population separated into individuals and small groups you can easily subjugate them through fear. But if they organize into larger groups it becomes more difficult to pick them all off.   </p>
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		<title>By: chgoliz</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660196</link>
		<dc:creator>chgoliz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660196</guid>
		<description>At the college I went to, the rate for passing O-Chem the first time through was 33%.
Some subjects are very difficult, even for smart people. Having to go over the material a couple of times to really learn it is a reasonable requirement.  No one has the right to assume they will pass every test and every class just because they &quot;studied&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the college I went to, the rate for passing O-Chem the first time through was 33%.<br />
Some subjects are very difficult, even for smart people. Having to go over the material a couple of times to really learn it is a reasonable requirement.  No one has the right to assume they will pass every test and every class just because they &#8220;studied&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660156</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660156</guid>
		<description>Well, to me, that&#039;s less interesting.  All that shows is &quot;don&#039;t even bother trying to get clever, I&#039;ll just arbitrarily change the rules to screw you over.&quot;  Which is probably a fair lesson to learn in life, but it reflects badly on the teacher.  

Sending a message &quot;it&#039;s all well and good to game the system, but always remember others can game it too, so you&#039;d better be REALLY clever about how you do it&quot; is more appealing to me.

(And of course, if I were the teacher in question, I&#039;d offer a make-up test for the zeros, with a new set of rules for the grading curve... Bill would still get the A though, because it is a brilliant well-executed solution)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, to me, that&#8217;s less interesting.  All that shows is &#8220;don&#8217;t even bother trying to get clever, I&#8217;ll just arbitrarily change the rules to screw you over.&#8221;  Which is probably a fair lesson to learn in life, but it reflects badly on the teacher.  </p>
<p>Sending a message &#8220;it&#8217;s all well and good to game the system, but always remember others can game it too, so you&#8217;d better be REALLY clever about how you do it&#8221; is more appealing to me.</p>
<p>(And of course, if I were the teacher in question, I&#8217;d offer a make-up test for the zeros, with a new set of rules for the grading curve&#8230; Bill would still get the A though, because it is a brilliant well-executed solution)</p>
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		<title>By: Snig</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660107</link>
		<dc:creator>Snig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660107</guid>
		<description>The test I&#039;m thinking of were graduate school level.  In some ways, the professors were experimenting on us to see if we could do phenomenally difficult problems.  If we all could, great,  If we couldn&#039;t, that&#039;s what the curve was for.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The test I&#8217;m thinking of were graduate school level.  In some ways, the professors were experimenting on us to see if we could do phenomenally difficult problems.  If we all could, great,  If we couldn&#8217;t, that&#8217;s what the curve was for.  </p>
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		<title>By: Snig</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660105</link>
		<dc:creator>Snig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660105</guid>
		<description>A particularly difficult test I&#039;m thinking of went beyond simple regurgitation of facts, consisted of  complicated sets of word problems on biophysical chemistry of water.  The class was taken by PhD candidates and MD/Phd candidates. Simply having read  the textbook (written by the professor who taught), was no guarantee of passing.  Open book test.    The members or the class had also taken basic biochem with the medical students, we used to make fun of their poor grasp of biochemistry. Nobody in the class was fucking stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A particularly difficult test I&#8217;m thinking of went beyond simple regurgitation of facts, consisted of  complicated sets of word problems on biophysical chemistry of water.  The class was taken by PhD candidates and MD/Phd candidates. Simply having read  the textbook (written by the professor who taught), was no guarantee of passing.  Open book test.    The members or the class had also taken basic biochem with the medical students, we used to make fun of their poor grasp of biochemistry. Nobody in the class was fucking stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660056</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660056</guid>
		<description>You can write whatever you want on the box, that doesn&#039;t mean it won&#039;t eat your dog later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can write whatever you want on the box, that doesn&#8217;t mean it won&#8217;t eat your dog later.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660054</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660054</guid>
		<description>I already outlined several benefits.  A rather big short term advantage would be being able to take the next level class without the dunces from the previous level holding everyone back.


A good quality engineer also knows how much damage unqualified idiots can cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I already outlined several benefits.  A rather big short term advantage would be being able to take the next level class without the dunces from the previous level holding everyone back.</p>
<p>A good quality engineer also knows how much damage unqualified idiots can cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660050</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660050</guid>
		<description>Which is fucking stupid.  If you don&#039;t know the material, why should you pass the test?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is fucking stupid.  If you don&#8217;t know the material, why should you pass the test?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660048</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660048</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re my fucking hero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re my fucking hero.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660049</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660049</guid>
		<description>Not to mention they could see what each was doing, and there was a fair amount of peer pressure involved to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention they could see what each was doing, and there was a fair amount of peer pressure involved to boot.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660047</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660047</guid>
		<description>The professor was a Johns Hopkins professor -- it did not say the students were enrolled at Johns Hopkins as well -- many professors have more than one school they teach at -- usually news articles just grab the one with the biggest name and publish it as that.  (Journalists are notorious for these kinds of errors.)

At any rate -- anyone who thinks that what was described in this article is somehow related to the prisoners&#039; dilemma is not fit to be passing any university level courses -- let alone programming ones.

EDIT: And seriously -- by your logic -- anyone who takes the class, by virtue of being in the class, is able to pass said class -- if that were /really/ the case why have a final exam at all? -- Spoiler Alert: the harder the school is, the more drop-outs it has -- the level 100 and 200 courses are there to weed out the fucktards (i.e. your reasoning is completely the opposite of reality).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The professor was a Johns Hopkins professor &#8212; it did not say the students were enrolled at Johns Hopkins as well &#8212; many professors have more than one school they teach at &#8212; usually news articles just grab the one with the biggest name and publish it as that.  (Journalists are notorious for these kinds of errors.)</p>
<p>At any rate &#8212; anyone who thinks that what was described in this article is somehow related to the prisoners&#8217; dilemma is not fit to be passing any university level courses &#8212; let alone programming ones.</p>
<p>EDIT: And seriously &#8212; by your logic &#8212; anyone who takes the class, by virtue of being in the class, is able to pass said class &#8212; if that were /really/ the case why have a final exam at all? &#8212; Spoiler Alert: the harder the school is, the more drop-outs it has &#8212; the level 100 and 200 courses are there to weed out the fucktards (i.e. your reasoning is completely the opposite of reality).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jensen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660044</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660044</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s always someone who passes a course without the skill (the prof. graded on a curve for gods&#039; sakes) -- this just makes the problem worse. -- I mean, fuck, they can&#039;t even tell that what they did was completely unrelated to the prisoner&#039;s dilemma, what makes you think they *can* program?

As a professional programmer, I interview people all the time who claim to be the next digital messaiah, and yet when asked to demonstrate their skills, they can&#039;t program their way out of a wet paper bag!

Call me a skeptic, but I&#039;m not going to just assume on faith that someone has a highly specialized skill without any demonstration or proof of said skill (especially when most of the people who claim to have said skill -- even at the university level -- don&#039;t actually have it) -- And again -- these guys apparently aren&#039;t even bright enough to figure out that this isn&#039;t the actual prisoners&#039; dilemma.  

This is complete bull donk, yo&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s always someone who passes a course without the skill (the prof. graded on a curve for gods&#8217; sakes) &#8212; this just makes the problem worse. &#8212; I mean, fuck, they can&#8217;t even tell that what they did was completely unrelated to the prisoner&#8217;s dilemma, what makes you think they *can* program?</p>
<p>As a professional programmer, I interview people all the time who claim to be the next digital messaiah, and yet when asked to demonstrate their skills, they can&#8217;t program their way out of a wet paper bag!</p>
<p>Call me a skeptic, but I&#8217;m not going to just assume on faith that someone has a highly specialized skill without any demonstration or proof of said skill (especially when most of the people who claim to have said skill &#8212; even at the university level &#8212; don&#8217;t actually have it) &#8212; And again &#8212; these guys apparently aren&#8217;t even bright enough to figure out that this isn&#8217;t the actual prisoners&#8217; dilemma.  </p>
<p>This is complete bull donk, yo&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: kmoser</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1660041</link>
		<dc:creator>kmoser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1660041</guid>
		<description>Alternately: &quot;Anybody who misses the test automatically fails the entire course. Any questions?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alternately: &#8220;Anybody who misses the test automatically fails the entire course. Any questions?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: A Viescas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1659973</link>
		<dc:creator>A Viescas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1659973</guid>
		<description>Like I said before, there&#039;s nothing significant about including multiple players or even direct communication. Various social psych PD experiments use multiple players (my psych 101 teacher had a hilarious PD class demonstration that we *almost* managed to win), and the aforementioned gameshow had lots of communication (I wish I could remember the name... I think it was British) The payout structure works if you either account for multiple participants (e.g. as you add people the anticipated payout goes down), OR grade the entire class on a curve as well. 


The last factor, the policing, is probably the most disrupted, but it could be avoided by a sufficiently clever &quot;sadist&quot; (such as promising to go along and not showing up that day, but having already taken the test in advance). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said before, there&#8217;s nothing significant about including multiple players or even direct communication. Various social psych PD experiments use multiple players (my psych 101 teacher had a hilarious PD class demonstration that we *almost* managed to win), and the aforementioned gameshow had lots of communication (I wish I could remember the name&#8230; I think it was British) The payout structure works if you either account for multiple participants (e.g. as you add people the anticipated payout goes down), OR grade the entire class on a curve as well. </p>
<p>The last factor, the policing, is probably the most disrupted, but it could be avoided by a sufficiently clever &#8220;sadist&#8221; (such as promising to go along and not showing up that day, but having already taken the test in advance). </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Smith</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1659924</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1659924</guid>
		<description>Being uninterested in cooperation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being uninterested in cooperation.</p>
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		<title>By: simplulo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/19/students-get-class-wide-as-by.html#comment-1659902</link>
		<dc:creator>simplulo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=213917#comment-1659902</guid>
		<description>This was not a PD for several reasons: communication (which you and others here have addressed), non-PD payoffs, N asymmetric players, and ability to retaliate (kinda like iterated PD). The Defect strategy would be unattractive, as it would offer no increase gain (like an A+). OK, assume that some sadist might like not just to get an A, but for everyone else to get an F, so he gets a utility bump for defecting. But what if others did that? Then the sadists are taking a chance. Presumably the students are not identical, but fall into a bell curve of abilities, so the best of them (and probably that information is common knowledge) would have an advantage. If the top student was also a sadist...he might defect. But the other students would still be around, not stuck in prison, so they&#039;d throw him a blanket party. They probably all signed this agreement in blood. Lots of communication going on in this PD variant....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was not a PD for several reasons: communication (which you and others here have addressed), non-PD payoffs, N asymmetric players, and ability to retaliate (kinda like iterated PD). The Defect strategy would be unattractive, as it would offer no increase gain (like an A+). OK, assume that some sadist might like not just to get an A, but for everyone else to get an F, so he gets a utility bump for defecting. But what if others did that? Then the sadists are taking a chance. Presumably the students are not identical, but fall into a bell curve of abilities, so the best of them (and probably that information is common knowledge) would have an advantage. If the top student was also a sadist&#8230;he might defect. But the other students would still be around, not stuck in prison, so they&#8217;d throw him a blanket party. They probably all signed this agreement in blood. Lots of communication going on in this PD variant&#8230;.</p>
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