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	<title>Comments on: What schools should really&#160;teach</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Kimmo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1669620</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Mar 2013 23:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1669620</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;It&#039;s the freedom to turn what you know into anything you want&lt;/i&gt;

hyperbolic today, are we? i thoroughly endorse the benefits of learning programming at some level, but this might be overstating those benefits just a bit, don&#039;t you think? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

It will be.

It &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>It&#8217;s the freedom to turn what you know into anything you want</i></p>
<p>hyperbolic today, are we? i thoroughly endorse the benefits of learning programming at some level, but this might be overstating those benefits just a bit, don&#8217;t you think? </p></blockquote>
<p>It will be.</p>
<p>It <i>will</i> be.</p>
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		<title>By: akputney</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1669061</link>
		<dc:creator>akputney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Mar 2013 22:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1669061</guid>
		<description>My middle school students have one-on-one computing. I use a social network called Edmodo and posted the video and a link to codeacademy. Told them coding lessons were allowed during Advisory and with permission when other work was complete. Within minutes, Nick came up to me and said &quot;how&#039;d that get there?&quot; He&#039;d created his first project, by naming it &quot;Nick is awesome,&quot; and suddenly can&#039;t get enough. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My middle school students have one-on-one computing. I use a social network called Edmodo and posted the video and a link to codeacademy. Told them coding lessons were allowed during Advisory and with permission when other work was complete. Within minutes, Nick came up to me and said &#8220;how&#8217;d that get there?&#8221; He&#8217;d created his first project, by naming it &#8220;Nick is awesome,&#8221; and suddenly can&#8217;t get enough. </p>
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		<title>By: akputney</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1669055</link>
		<dc:creator>akputney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Mar 2013 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1669055</guid>
		<description>The biggest mistake I made in college was to take &quot;Calculus for Biology Majors,&quot; rather than &quot;Calculus.&quot; While I have long ago lost my calc skills, it influences my thinking all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest mistake I made in college was to take &#8220;Calculus for Biology Majors,&#8221; rather than &#8220;Calculus.&#8221; While I have long ago lost my calc skills, it influences my thinking all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Ball</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1668154</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Mar 2013 00:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1668154</guid>
		<description>Yep, pretty much, nail on head got it. 


Anyone can draw, anyone can program and anyone can do math. 

Sure they may not be a Michelangelo or Turing,  but they with a good amount of effort and a little time will be better than the people who consider themselves to be good at it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, pretty much, nail on head got it. </p>
<p>Anyone can draw, anyone can program and anyone can do math. </p>
<p>Sure they may not be a Michelangelo or Turing,  but they with a good amount of effort and a little time will be better than the people who consider themselves to be good at it. </p>
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		<title>By: Alan Ball</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1668023</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1668023</guid>
		<description>To be fair I was actually taught programming in my highschool in the po-dunk county of moore NC. Had I not have gotten that first taste lord knows where I would have ended up. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair I was actually taught programming in my highschool in the po-dunk county of moore NC. Had I not have gotten that first taste lord knows where I would have ended up. </p>
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		<title>By: krusty42</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667278</link>
		<dc:creator>krusty42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667278</guid>
		<description> Oh yes! You can grow food, you can even PRINT food with proper coding skills. (google it), as for growing, imagine having a totally controlled environment programmed for optimum growth.

And as if that wasn&#039;t enough, you can code for food and basically anything you&#039;d ever want, you just need to be able to deliver what someone else wants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Oh yes! You can grow food, you can even PRINT food with proper coding skills. (google it), as for growing, imagine having a totally controlled environment programmed for optimum growth.</p>
<p>And as if that wasn&#8217;t enough, you can code for food and basically anything you&#8217;d ever want, you just need to be able to deliver what someone else wants.</p>
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		<title>By: CH</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667214</link>
		<dc:creator>CH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667214</guid>
		<description>Actually... that I can get behind. And I would extend it to &quot;build something&quot; project work, not necessarily by programming. Build a robot, program a game, build a tree house... where you have different people who have different specialties and you all have to come together to solve the problem, and appreciate what each person brings to the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually&#8230; that I can get behind. And I would extend it to &#8220;build something&#8221; project work, not necessarily by programming. Build a robot, program a game, build a tree house&#8230; where you have different people who have different specialties and you all have to come together to solve the problem, and appreciate what each person brings to the table.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667209</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667209</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s exactly my point.  When you take that away, what&#039;s left?  Record-keeping for European horse meat transfers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s exactly my point.  When you take that away, what&#8217;s left?  Record-keeping for European horse meat transfers?</p>
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		<title>By: scav</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667200</link>
		<dc:creator>scav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667200</guid>
		<description>I (with &gt;20 years programming experience) would advocate teaching computer programming to build one basic &quot;social competence&quot; that is as important as problem-solving, mathematical awareness, and technological literacy.

When you write a program, it generally doesn&#039;t work. And to get it to work, you can&#039;t scream at it, bully it, manipulate it, blame it (or anyone else). You have to UNDERSTAND what the program is really doing (and how that differs from what you THOUGHT you told it to do), and FIX it. You can ask others for help, you can apply scientific method  (another useful skill), and you can learn from your mistakes.

It defeats helplessness, and it teaches that magical explanations are bullshit, and underlying every mysterious physical phenomenon are understandable physical explanations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I (with &gt;20 years programming experience) would advocate teaching computer programming to build one basic &#8220;social competence&#8221; that is as important as problem-solving, mathematical awareness, and technological literacy.</p>
<p>When you write a program, it generally doesn&#8217;t work. And to get it to work, you can&#8217;t scream at it, bully it, manipulate it, blame it (or anyone else). You have to UNDERSTAND what the program is really doing (and how that differs from what you THOUGHT you told it to do), and FIX it. You can ask others for help, you can apply scientific method  (another useful skill), and you can learn from your mistakes.</p>
<p>It defeats helplessness, and it teaches that magical explanations are bullshit, and underlying every mysterious physical phenomenon are understandable physical explanations.</p>
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		<title>By: scav</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667199</link>
		<dc:creator>scav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667199</guid>
		<description>You probably haven&#039;t met a significant sample of good programmers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You probably haven&#8217;t met a significant sample of good programmers.</p>
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		<title>By: scav</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667197</link>
		<dc:creator>scav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667197</guid>
		<description>Those things are relatively unimportant compared to computer games and online sex. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those things are relatively unimportant compared to computer games and online sex. :)</p>
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		<title>By: brillow</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667158</link>
		<dc:creator>brillow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667158</guid>
		<description>The problem with these types of arguments is that there are a million of them.  Everyone thinks that their thing is something everyone needs to know and it should be taught in school.

Astronomers say everyone should learn astronomy in school, so we might know our place in the universe. Biologists say we all must learn biology, so we might appreciate nature.  Chemists say we must all learn chemistry, so that we might better understand our modern world.  Farmers say we should all learn agriculture, so we might know where our food comes from.  Mechanics thinks kids should learn how to change their brakes in school because it will help them be better car owners.  Literature people think everyone should read more, film people think there should be film classes, etc etc on and on.

Heck, there was even a lady on TTBOOK.org (radio show) last weekend talking about how learning penmenship is the key to kids learning.

The problem is THERE IS NO TIME to do this.  There is about 5.5 hours of time a day in school to learn things.  (You could argue that we need longer or more school days.)  

Mostly though no one wants to pay for it.  Finding pols and citizens who want more money for education are easy to find.  Find a politician who is going to raise taxes 10% for education. Find a citizen who feels they can afford a few grand more a year in taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with these types of arguments is that there are a million of them.  Everyone thinks that their thing is something everyone needs to know and it should be taught in school.</p>
<p>Astronomers say everyone should learn astronomy in school, so we might know our place in the universe. Biologists say we all must learn biology, so we might appreciate nature.  Chemists say we must all learn chemistry, so that we might better understand our modern world.  Farmers say we should all learn agriculture, so we might know where our food comes from.  Mechanics thinks kids should learn how to change their brakes in school because it will help them be better car owners.  Literature people think everyone should read more, film people think there should be film classes, etc etc on and on.</p>
<p>Heck, there was even a lady on TTBOOK.org (radio show) last weekend talking about how learning penmenship is the key to kids learning.</p>
<p>The problem is THERE IS NO TIME to do this.  There is about 5.5 hours of time a day in school to learn things.  (You could argue that we need longer or more school days.)  </p>
<p>Mostly though no one wants to pay for it.  Finding pols and citizens who want more money for education are easy to find.  Find a politician who is going to raise taxes 10% for education. Find a citizen who feels they can afford a few grand more a year in taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Glitzyitzy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667149</link>
		<dc:creator>Glitzyitzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 05:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667149</guid>
		<description>This comment betrays an ignorance of just how many people there are out there who struggle with Office-level computer skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment betrays an ignorance of just how many people there are out there who struggle with Office-level computer skills.</p>
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		<title>By: kinscore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1667026</link>
		<dc:creator>kinscore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 01:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1667026</guid>
		<description>Statistics are often used in news and politics, often manipulated or misinterpreted. Learning at least enough statistics to sanity check these uses would be very useful.
For basically the same reason, plus managing personal finances, I think everyone should be learn at least basic economics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Statistics are often used in news and politics, often manipulated or misinterpreted. Learning at least enough statistics to sanity check these uses would be very useful.<br />
For basically the same reason, plus managing personal finances, I think everyone should be learn at least basic economics.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Putney</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666967</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Putney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 00:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666967</guid>
		<description>I once took down an enraged grizzly with a Perl one-liner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once took down an enraged grizzly with a Perl one-liner.</p>
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		<title>By: gratefulvideo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666931</link>
		<dc:creator>gratefulvideo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666931</guid>
		<description>Meanwhile in North Carolina they are debating whether or not to start teaching the bible in public schools.

I hate this state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile in North Carolina they are debating whether or not to start teaching the bible in public schools.</p>
<p>I hate this state.</p>
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		<title>By: Daemonworks</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666913</link>
		<dc:creator>Daemonworks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666913</guid>
		<description>Still waiting for Critical Thinking to become required for high school graduation... or even offered as an elective... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still waiting for Critical Thinking to become required for high school graduation&#8230; or even offered as an elective&#8230; </p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666868</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666868</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How about teaching everybody how to perform minor surgeries?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Your health insurance company sends out that self-care manual every year, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How about teaching everybody how to perform minor surgeries?</p></blockquote>
<p>Your health insurance company sends out that self-care manual every year, too?</p>
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		<title>By: Cowicide</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666796</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowicide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666796</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve known plenty of programmers that sorely lack critical thinking skills outside of their programming realm.  I also think it often comes with the territory of having many of their friends and family errantly calling them &quot;geniuses&quot; (and it goes to straight to their heads).

I know geniuses that work on motorcycles, but I never hear anyone refer to them as a &quot;motorcycle genius&quot;.  Working with computers doesn&#039;t necessarily make you a &quot;computer genius&quot; or any kind of genius at all.  I wish more professional programmers knew that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve known plenty of programmers that sorely lack critical thinking skills outside of their programming realm.  I also think it often comes with the territory of having many of their friends and family errantly calling them &#8220;geniuses&#8221; (and it goes to straight to their heads).</p>
<p>I know geniuses that work on motorcycles, but I never hear anyone refer to them as a &#8220;motorcycle genius&#8221;.  Working with computers doesn&#8217;t necessarily make you a &#8220;computer genius&#8221; or any kind of genius at all.  I wish more professional programmers knew that.</p>
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		<title>By: Cowicide</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666783</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowicide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666783</guid>
		<description>No mention of Douglas Rushkoff?  &lt;b&gt;FIXED&lt;/b&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rushkoff.com/program-or-be-programmed/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Program Or Be Programmed&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No mention of Douglas Rushkoff?  <b>FIXED</b>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rushkoff.com/program-or-be-programmed/" rel="nofollow">Program Or Be Programmed</a></p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666778</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666778</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I learned to code because I could do anything with the machine&lt;/blockquote&gt;Really?  You can grow food by coding?  Build a shelter?  Transport yourself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I learned to code because I could do anything with the machine</p></blockquote>
<p>Really?  You can grow food by coding?  Build a shelter?  Transport yourself?</p>
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		<title>By: Girard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666682</link>
		<dc:creator>Girard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666682</guid>
		<description>I would incorporate it into the curriculum in an integrated way rather than &quot;in place&quot; of a different subject. For instance, students in language arts classes could write/code an interactive narrative using Twine, visual arts classes could do a unit using Processing to explore procedural artwork, and math classes could use Processing to rapidly visualize geometric and trigonometric principles (or do graphing in Algebra) etc. This would necessitate perhaps &quot;dropping out&quot; specific assignments or units, but not whole subjects, and in some cases wouldn&#039;t &quot;drop out&quot; any subject matter, but teach it through a different methodology or activity.

Many elementary and secondary schools already have supplementary &quot;computer classes&quot; outside of the normal curricular subjects, but those largely teach receptive skills rather than productive ones (playing edutainment games, using MSOffice, etc.). Those could be more extensively retooled to incorporate programming, I think, since the types of skills and literacies associated with programming fall more explicitly within the curricular aims of those classes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would incorporate it into the curriculum in an integrated way rather than &#8220;in place&#8221; of a different subject. For instance, students in language arts classes could write/code an interactive narrative using Twine, visual arts classes could do a unit using Processing to explore procedural artwork, and math classes could use Processing to rapidly visualize geometric and trigonometric principles (or do graphing in Algebra) etc. This would necessitate perhaps &#8220;dropping out&#8221; specific assignments or units, but not whole subjects, and in some cases wouldn&#8217;t &#8220;drop out&#8221; any subject matter, but teach it through a different methodology or activity.</p>
<p>Many elementary and secondary schools already have supplementary &#8220;computer classes&#8221; outside of the normal curricular subjects, but those largely teach receptive skills rather than productive ones (playing edutainment games, using MSOffice, etc.). Those could be more extensively retooled to incorporate programming, I think, since the types of skills and literacies associated with programming fall more explicitly within the curricular aims of those classes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Putney</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666665</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Putney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666665</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t so much drop stuff as pepper this in among all the other things you&#039;re learning. One Laptop Per Child programs begin to touch on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t so much drop stuff as pepper this in among all the other things you&#8217;re learning. One Laptop Per Child programs begin to touch on this.</p>
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		<title>By: CH</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666654</link>
		<dc:creator>CH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666654</guid>
		<description>... but I still don&#039;t see _why_ every child _should_ be taught programming. I can come up with a lot of other stuff I would favor instead (how to find information and sift through for the relevant bits... and apply critical thinking! being the main one... heck, I would settle for just critical thinking.). What would you drop out of the school curriculum in favor of teaching programming?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; but I still don&#8217;t see _why_ every child _should_ be taught programming. I can come up with a lot of other stuff I would favor instead (how to find information and sift through for the relevant bits&#8230; and apply critical thinking! being the main one&#8230; heck, I would settle for just critical thinking.). What would you drop out of the school curriculum in favor of teaching programming?</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Putney</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666632</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Putney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666632</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s broaden this a bit more to talk about the Internet. We&#039;re all having a pretty nice discussion here about some important things, and none of us really know anything about the others. All the valid, well thought out comments are welcome and appreciated (I&#039;m certainly reading all of them).

Writing software is equally empowering in a social sense. A really useful piece of software can be made by basically anyone, alone or in a group, and deeply loved by millions of people. People who just weren&#039;t even on the table before are real players now, and the final product can be grabbed onto by anyone or everyone in the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s broaden this a bit more to talk about the Internet. We&#8217;re all having a pretty nice discussion here about some important things, and none of us really know anything about the others. All the valid, well thought out comments are welcome and appreciated (I&#8217;m certainly reading all of them).</p>
<p>Writing software is equally empowering in a social sense. A really useful piece of software can be made by basically anyone, alone or in a group, and deeply loved by millions of people. People who just weren&#8217;t even on the table before are real players now, and the final product can be grabbed onto by anyone or everyone in the community.</p>
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		<title>By: aikimoe</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666623</link>
		<dc:creator>aikimoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666623</guid>
		<description>But this depends on whether or not a semester or two of a class one despises and sees no purpose in actually helps to train people to organize their thoughts.

It might, for some, but for the millions of others it was a waste of their time inflicted on them against their will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But this depends on whether or not a semester or two of a class one despises and sees no purpose in actually helps to train people to organize their thoughts.</p>
<p>It might, for some, but for the millions of others it was a waste of their time inflicted on them against their will.</p>
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		<title>By: aikimoe</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666613</link>
		<dc:creator>aikimoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666613</guid>
		<description>I think this is a fundamental problem with current concepts of education.  What kids in high school &quot;should&quot; learn has always been very different than what lots of kids in high school can or, more importantly, want to learn. 

Like science and history (two of my favorite subjects), the kind of basic programming concepts you describe above should be taught in high school to every kid who’s interested in learning them.  But lots of kids won&#039;t be interested in learning them and most of those kids will go on to lead perfectly fulfilling and happy lives.

Because what kids &quot;should&quot; learn is highly subjective and the kids know it better than the adults ever have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a fundamental problem with current concepts of education.  What kids in high school &#8220;should&#8221; learn has always been very different than what lots of kids in high school can or, more importantly, want to learn. </p>
<p>Like science and history (two of my favorite subjects), the kind of basic programming concepts you describe above should be taught in high school to every kid who’s interested in learning them.  But lots of kids won&#8217;t be interested in learning them and most of those kids will go on to lead perfectly fulfilling and happy lives.</p>
<p>Because what kids &#8220;should&#8221; learn is highly subjective and the kids know it better than the adults ever have.</p>
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		<title>By: Anarcissie</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666585</link>
		<dc:creator>Anarcissie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666585</guid>
		<description>I see a number of problems with both &#039;everyone can learn to draw&#039; and &#039;everyone can learn to code&#039;.  A primary problem is everyone cannot, in fact, learn to draw or learn to code.  For a great many skills, like drawing, coding, speaking a foreign language, map-reading, doing non-rote mathematics, and so on -- all very useful for those who can do them well -- there are a large number of perfectly intelligent people who for some reason &lt;i&gt;cannot&lt;/i&gt; learn the skill.  I know this from direct experience (trying to teach people how to code and to draw) and from observation and report.  I don&#039;t think this phenomenon, like a great many other phenomena seemingly involving the brain, is well understood.  There are also a great many people who can learn the skills in a rudimentary way, but only with great difficulty, so that for them (and those who may be supporting their effort) there is no payoff.  The cost is higher than the reward.

The idea that some new kind of language or interface will magically enable all and any non-programmers to program has been repeatedly advanced in the past.  If you are old enough you will remember COBOL being hyped in exactly that way.  The problem is that programming necessarily involves breaking a problem down into very tiny parts that do not look at all like the problem and then putting them together to solve the problem, just as with drawings one creates the illusion of the subject with little marks that look nothing like the subject but are almost miraculously brought together by the draftsman.  For many people, these are procedures that have long since been banished to the unconscious mind and can&#039;t be easily recovered, if at all.  A new language does about as much for coding as a new kind of pencil does for drawing.

Young people should certainly be learning how to use computers and other gadgets of our age and culture, but they can almost certainly do this without learning to program.  If they &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; learn it, great, but I don&#039;t see the point of torturing those who can&#039;t.

As for the idea that learning to program, to draw, to speak Russian, etc., will necessarily lead to a job, I think that&#039;s pretty dubious.  I&#039;d like to see some evidence from the bloody fields of the job market.  

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see a number of problems with both &#8216;everyone can learn to draw&#8217; and &#8216;everyone can learn to code&#8217;.  A primary problem is everyone cannot, in fact, learn to draw or learn to code.  For a great many skills, like drawing, coding, speaking a foreign language, map-reading, doing non-rote mathematics, and so on &#8212; all very useful for those who can do them well &#8212; there are a large number of perfectly intelligent people who for some reason <i>cannot</i> learn the skill.  I know this from direct experience (trying to teach people how to code and to draw) and from observation and report.  I don&#8217;t think this phenomenon, like a great many other phenomena seemingly involving the brain, is well understood.  There are also a great many people who can learn the skills in a rudimentary way, but only with great difficulty, so that for them (and those who may be supporting their effort) there is no payoff.  The cost is higher than the reward.</p>
<p>The idea that some new kind of language or interface will magically enable all and any non-programmers to program has been repeatedly advanced in the past.  If you are old enough you will remember COBOL being hyped in exactly that way.  The problem is that programming necessarily involves breaking a problem down into very tiny parts that do not look at all like the problem and then putting them together to solve the problem, just as with drawings one creates the illusion of the subject with little marks that look nothing like the subject but are almost miraculously brought together by the draftsman.  For many people, these are procedures that have long since been banished to the unconscious mind and can&#8217;t be easily recovered, if at all.  A new language does about as much for coding as a new kind of pencil does for drawing.</p>
<p>Young people should certainly be learning how to use computers and other gadgets of our age and culture, but they can almost certainly do this without learning to program.  If they <i>can</i> learn it, great, but I don&#8217;t see the point of torturing those who can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>As for the idea that learning to program, to draw, to speak Russian, etc., will necessarily lead to a job, I think that&#8217;s pretty dubious.  I&#8217;d like to see some evidence from the bloody fields of the job market.  </p>
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		<title>By: CH</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666580</link>
		<dc:creator>CH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666580</guid>
		<description>In what way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In what way?</p>
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		<title>By: Crashproof</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/what-most-schools-should-reall.html#comment-1666575</link>
		<dc:creator>Crashproof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=215479#comment-1666575</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll just leave this here:


http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/is-it-true-that-not-everyone-can-be-a-programmer/

Anecdotally, I find that some people who are quite smart, curious, creative, and easily able to pick up knowledge and craft in many other areas, still don&#039;t seem to have whatever it takes to really *understand* programming except at a very mechanical, simplistic level.  It does not seem to be a lack of either critical thinking or abstract thinking; it&#039;s more like they&#039;re trying to find their way around without having any sense of direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just leave this here:</p>
<p><a href="http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/is-it-true-that-not-everyone-can-be-a-programmer/" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/is-it-true-that-not-everyone-can-be-a-programmer/</a></p>
<p>Anecdotally, I find that some people who are quite smart, curious, creative, and easily able to pick up knowledge and craft in many other areas, still don&#8217;t seem to have whatever it takes to really *understand* programming except at a very mechanical, simplistic level.  It does not seem to be a lack of either critical thinking or abstract thinking; it&#8217;s more like they&#8217;re trying to find their way around without having any sense of direction.</p>
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