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	<title>Comments on: Cops abduct 6-y-o for going to the store on her own, initially refuse to return to her&#160;dad</title>
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		<title>By: EvilSpirit</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1673442</link>
		<dc:creator>EvilSpirit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1673442</guid>
		<description>Telling *them* is not the point. Whoever trained that keystone cop should have told *him*. Because getting this stuff right is his job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Telling *them* is not the point. Whoever trained that keystone cop should have told *him*. Because getting this stuff right is his job.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1672290</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1672290</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But I know of no blanket law making the failure to report a crime a crime in and of itself.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Thanks for outing yourself as being both authoritarian and amoral.  Read up on the Nuremberg Trials.
&lt;blockquote&gt;And like everyone else, they have their bad days.&lt;/blockquote&gt;No one ends up in jail or injured or dead when most of us have a bad day.  That&#039;s a despicable excuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But I know of no blanket law making the failure to report a crime a crime in and of itself.</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks for outing yourself as being both authoritarian and amoral.  Read up on the Nuremberg Trials.</p>
<blockquote><p>And like everyone else, they have their bad days.</p></blockquote>
<p>No one ends up in jail or injured or dead when most of us have a bad day.  That&#8217;s a despicable excuse.</p>
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		<title>By: donovan acree</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1672114</link>
		<dc:creator>donovan acree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1672114</guid>
		<description>&quot;They refused to identify a reasonable cause for her detention, or even what law had been broken.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They refused to identify a reasonable cause for her detention, or even what law had been broken.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671940</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671940</guid>
		<description>There are certain mandatory reporting laws on the books, such as physicians being required to report gunshot wounds.

But I know of no blanket law making the failure to report a crime a crime in and of itself.

The officers are governed by the same laws as you are.  If you don&#039;t report someone you know for breaking a law, have you broken it?  (HINT: have you ever been in a car where the driver was speeding, ran a stop sign or red light?)

Not reporting a crime may be unethical and immoral, but not necessarily illegal.  In many jurisdictions, it may violate department regulations.  But that does not make it a crime.

Police departments are social organizations like any other.  Sometimes getting too rigid about the rules has more negative consequences than it is worth.  If I saw another officer take a candy bar when we investigated a burglary at a store, I didn&#039;t report him to the Sgt.  I left money on the counter to pay for the candy bar, and I dealt with the officer personally.  Turning him in to Internal Affairs over a candy bar would have gotten me ostracized.  Because it would have been considered an over-reaction.

It seems as if many people expect law enforcement officers to act as infallible robots.  Which they are not.  And like everyone else, they have their bad days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are certain mandatory reporting laws on the books, such as physicians being required to report gunshot wounds.</p>
<p>But I know of no blanket law making the failure to report a crime a crime in and of itself.</p>
<p>The officers are governed by the same laws as you are.  If you don&#8217;t report someone you know for breaking a law, have you broken it?  (HINT: have you ever been in a car where the driver was speeding, ran a stop sign or red light?)</p>
<p>Not reporting a crime may be unethical and immoral, but not necessarily illegal.  In many jurisdictions, it may violate department regulations.  But that does not make it a crime.</p>
<p>Police departments are social organizations like any other.  Sometimes getting too rigid about the rules has more negative consequences than it is worth.  If I saw another officer take a candy bar when we investigated a burglary at a store, I didn&#8217;t report him to the Sgt.  I left money on the counter to pay for the candy bar, and I dealt with the officer personally.  Turning him in to Internal Affairs over a candy bar would have gotten me ostracized.  Because it would have been considered an over-reaction.</p>
<p>It seems as if many people expect law enforcement officers to act as infallible robots.  Which they are not.  And like everyone else, they have their bad days.</p>
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		<title>By: KBert</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671934</link>
		<dc:creator>KBert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671934</guid>
		<description>Legal meaning! I&#039;m no lawyer, but I have a dictionary, and it says:
&#039;To carry off by force&#039; fr L abductus - to lead away
MWCD 10th
Seems to fit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legal meaning! I&#8217;m no lawyer, but I have a dictionary, and it says:<br />
&#8216;To carry off by force&#8217; fr L abductus &#8211; to lead away<br />
MWCD 10th<br />
Seems to fit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: austinhamman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671791</link>
		<dc:creator>austinhamman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671791</guid>
		<description>lazy doesnt mean less time, it means less investment. asking the child, talking to the father, gathering statistics, all that stuff involves investment from the cop, it involves caring and putting a bit of your own beliefs and ego on the line for the betterment of someone else, the lazy way is one which forgoes that investment and simply replaces it with filling out paper work.sure it&#039;s tedious but it&#039;s hardly difficult.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lazy doesnt mean less time, it means less investment. asking the child, talking to the father, gathering statistics, all that stuff involves investment from the cop, it involves caring and putting a bit of your own beliefs and ego on the line for the betterment of someone else, the lazy way is one which forgoes that investment and simply replaces it with filling out paper work.sure it&#8217;s tedious but it&#8217;s hardly difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Sasha Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671769</link>
		<dc:creator>Sasha Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671769</guid>
		<description> Now that they are in the scope of the CPS, this family is basically fucked. CPS represents a much greater threat to families than any psycho predators do.

I know it&#039;s said and said again, but this mindset that children can&#039;t take care of themselves is profoundly dangerous and damaging to a society.

Sit around playing Crysis 3 all day, it&#039;s safe, right?

I have a 3 year old, and since she was 2 I&#039;ve given her a lot of leeway in many ways. I mean, I don&#039;t assume she&#039;s going to go walk off a cliff, I know her and she is cautious as hell. People can&#039;t believe I let her walk around shops or train cars on her own, and assume she doesn&#039;t have any brain. I was at a mountain lookout the other day, and a six year old kid climbed up 8&quot;, putting his feet on the lowest cable of the fence and hoisting himself up for a better view. Four adults shrieked in terror and jumped over to pull him off. It&#039;s just madness. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Now that they are in the scope of the CPS, this family is basically fucked. CPS represents a much greater threat to families than any psycho predators do.</p>
<p>I know it&#8217;s said and said again, but this mindset that children can&#8217;t take care of themselves is profoundly dangerous and damaging to a society.</p>
<p>Sit around playing Crysis 3 all day, it&#8217;s safe, right?</p>
<p>I have a 3 year old, and since she was 2 I&#8217;ve given her a lot of leeway in many ways. I mean, I don&#8217;t assume she&#8217;s going to go walk off a cliff, I know her and she is cautious as hell. People can&#8217;t believe I let her walk around shops or train cars on her own, and assume she doesn&#8217;t have any brain. I was at a mountain lookout the other day, and a six year old kid climbed up 8&#8243;, putting his feet on the lowest cable of the fence and hoisting himself up for a better view. Four adults shrieked in terror and jumped over to pull him off. It&#8217;s just madness. </p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671750</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671750</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re repeating yourself.  Stop, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re repeating yourself.  Stop, please.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671749</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671749</guid>
		<description>Well, that was certainly reality-challenged.

I expect the Police Dept. will tell you the child was detained for investigation of child neglect / endangerment.  That would cover the authority of law.

How could walking in a public place be considered dangerous?  The totality of the circumstances have to be considered for that, and the article sure didn&#039;t tell us enough.  Age of the child, traffic conditions and speed, time of day/night, crime rates and types in that area.

You make a lot of assumptions in your argument.  Please prove that the officer knew no crime was being committed.  You can&#039;t from the article, the officer was never interviewed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that was certainly reality-challenged.</p>
<p>I expect the Police Dept. will tell you the child was detained for investigation of child neglect / endangerment.  That would cover the authority of law.</p>
<p>How could walking in a public place be considered dangerous?  The totality of the circumstances have to be considered for that, and the article sure didn&#8217;t tell us enough.  Age of the child, traffic conditions and speed, time of day/night, crime rates and types in that area.</p>
<p>You make a lot of assumptions in your argument.  Please prove that the officer knew no crime was being committed.  You can&#8217;t from the article, the officer was never interviewed.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671745</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671745</guid>
		<description>You know that they knew?  How did you obtain this knowledge?  It isn&#039;t specified in the rather sparse story.

Plus you might want to look up the term &quot;in loco parentis&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know that they knew?  How did you obtain this knowledge?  It isn&#8217;t specified in the rather sparse story.</p>
<p>Plus you might want to look up the term &#8220;in loco parentis&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671744</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671744</guid>
		<description>I tried a Google search, everything came back to the Free Range Kids site.

You&#039;d think some local media would have a story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried a Google search, everything came back to the Free Range Kids site.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d think some local media would have a story.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671743</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671743</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And the vast majority of them do, almost all the time.&lt;/blockquote&gt;If they fail to report when other officers break the law, then they&#039;ve broken the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And the vast majority of them do, almost all the time.</p></blockquote>
<p>If they fail to report when other officers break the law, then they&#8217;ve broken the law.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671742</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671742</guid>
		<description>You were lucky.

I had to walk to school uphill both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You were lucky.</p>
<p>I had to walk to school uphill both ways.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671741</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671741</guid>
		<description>Well, you sort of got at least part of that backwards.  What he did was not the lazy way.  Your way, he would not have had to do any paper.  The way he did it, there had to be an incident report written.  And the trip to the station and everything else involved certainly took more time.

And that is a good thing, because if there IS questionable action happening, it needs to be documented.  Sometimes you can&#039;t get CPS to act unless you can bury them in paper showing a pattern.  Part of what the Catholic Church is getting torched for is burying the reporting that would have resulted in patterns being seen.

There are usually statutes prohibiting &quot;child endangerment&quot;.  But they are broadly written, and are subject to interpretation. Documenting this allows review by others with more experience and training on the specific matter.

Frankly, I wish the article had been longer and contained more data.  The fact that it was on a site called &quot;Free Range Children&quot; is probably a clue to their bias.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you sort of got at least part of that backwards.  What he did was not the lazy way.  Your way, he would not have had to do any paper.  The way he did it, there had to be an incident report written.  And the trip to the station and everything else involved certainly took more time.</p>
<p>And that is a good thing, because if there IS questionable action happening, it needs to be documented.  Sometimes you can&#8217;t get CPS to act unless you can bury them in paper showing a pattern.  Part of what the Catholic Church is getting torched for is burying the reporting that would have resulted in patterns being seen.</p>
<p>There are usually statutes prohibiting &#8220;child endangerment&#8221;.  But they are broadly written, and are subject to interpretation. Documenting this allows review by others with more experience and training on the specific matter.</p>
<p>Frankly, I wish the article had been longer and contained more data.  The fact that it was on a site called &#8220;Free Range Children&#8221; is probably a clue to their bias.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671737</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671737</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been reading through this hoping someone would mention where it happened.  &quot;Child Protective Services&quot; is a clue, but many states call their child welfare agency that.  California, for one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been reading through this hoping someone would mention where it happened.  &#8221;Child Protective Services&#8221; is a clue, but many states call their child welfare agency that.  California, for one.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671735</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671735</guid>
		<description>Wow.  

You should run for office, give everyone the benefit of your &quot;wisdom&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  </p>
<p>You should run for office, give everyone the benefit of your &#8220;wisdom&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671734</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671734</guid>
		<description>I suppose someone should also point out that a lot of the kids who disappear do it on their own, to get away from abusive parents and living conditions.  Strangers aren&#039;t the only dangers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose someone should also point out that a lot of the kids who disappear do it on their own, to get away from abusive parents and living conditions.  Strangers aren&#8217;t the only dangers.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671733</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671733</guid>
		<description>Probably the United States of America, where police are required to obey the law.  And the vast majority of them do, almost all the time.

I would be happier if it was closer to 100%, but I also know that officers are drawn from the fallible ranks of human beings.  100% is unrealistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably the United States of America, where police are required to obey the law.  And the vast majority of them do, almost all the time.</p>
<p>I would be happier if it was closer to 100%, but I also know that officers are drawn from the fallible ranks of human beings.  100% is unrealistic.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671732</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671732</guid>
		<description>You should probably research the legal meaning of &quot;abducted&quot;, as you are misusing it.  Probably intentionally, but that is a guess on my part.  In this case, the officer had legal authority.  Badly misapplied, IMHO.  But it was not an abduction.  The best outcome from this would be, again IMHO, giving the officer some more training on this specific subject.  When it comes to children, you are supposed to err on the side of the safety of the child.

Without the prior stop and knowledge of the child and parent, this would smell less.  The claim that he &quot;got a call from a citizen&quot; in this case leads me to want proof of that statement.  It sounds convenient and made up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should probably research the legal meaning of &#8220;abducted&#8221;, as you are misusing it.  Probably intentionally, but that is a guess on my part.  In this case, the officer had legal authority.  Badly misapplied, IMHO.  But it was not an abduction.  The best outcome from this would be, again IMHO, giving the officer some more training on this specific subject.  When it comes to children, you are supposed to err on the side of the safety of the child.</p>
<p>Without the prior stop and knowledge of the child and parent, this would smell less.  The claim that he &#8220;got a call from a citizen&#8221; in this case leads me to want proof of that statement.  It sounds convenient and made up.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671727</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671727</guid>
		<description>I guess it depends on what you think is adequate.  Most of the areas I worked were fielding the same number of officers as they were before the population tripled.  I never considered it adequate.  Many nights, I worked the north half of the county alone.  That might be okay in a really small county.  Mine wasn&#039;t.  I don&#039;t think many are small enough for that to be remotely adequate.  But you pays your money, you takes your choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it depends on what you think is adequate.  Most of the areas I worked were fielding the same number of officers as they were before the population tripled.  I never considered it adequate.  Many nights, I worked the north half of the county alone.  That might be okay in a really small county.  Mine wasn&#8217;t.  I don&#8217;t think many are small enough for that to be remotely adequate.  But you pays your money, you takes your choice.</p>
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		<title>By: cavalrysword</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671724</link>
		<dc:creator>cavalrysword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671724</guid>
		<description>I realize you are being sarcastic.  The laws do apply to the police.  The problem is many of the cops have NO clue what the laws are.  Most never look at the penal codes or vehicle codes after they graduate from the academy.  I always considered that shameful. The reason, IMHO, is that they have lowered the standards for becoming a police officer so much.  It used to be that drug usage barred you, period.  Now some departments are okay if you haven&#039;t used cocaine or meth in the last 6 months.  In the late &#039;70&#039;s they had the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, which, among other things, helped finance officers going to college to learn more about how to do their jobs better.  That got cut out of the budget.  Many administrators prefer dumber cops, as they are more &quot;malleable&quot;.  They often found me &quot;argumentative&quot;.  Like when I would point out that the actions they wanted to take were illegal.  Sgt.s and above REALLY don&#039;t like it when you tell them you are not going to do what they want you to.
Still, I think it is hard to expect too much from officers who are so underpaid and under-trained.  Many jurisdictions pay the cops the same salary they pay the guy who drives the street sweeper.  Sometimes, you get what you pay for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize you are being sarcastic.  The laws do apply to the police.  The problem is many of the cops have NO clue what the laws are.  Most never look at the penal codes or vehicle codes after they graduate from the academy.  I always considered that shameful. The reason, IMHO, is that they have lowered the standards for becoming a police officer so much.  It used to be that drug usage barred you, period.  Now some departments are okay if you haven&#8217;t used cocaine or meth in the last 6 months.  In the late &#8217;70&#8242;s they had the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, which, among other things, helped finance officers going to college to learn more about how to do their jobs better.  That got cut out of the budget.  Many administrators prefer dumber cops, as they are more &#8220;malleable&#8221;.  They often found me &#8220;argumentative&#8221;.  Like when I would point out that the actions they wanted to take were illegal.  Sgt.s and above REALLY don&#8217;t like it when you tell them you are not going to do what they want you to.<br />
Still, I think it is hard to expect too much from officers who are so underpaid and under-trained.  Many jurisdictions pay the cops the same salary they pay the guy who drives the street sweeper.  Sometimes, you get what you pay for.</p>
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		<title>By: Sasha Shepherd</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671615</link>
		<dc:creator>Sasha Shepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671615</guid>
		<description> The same assumption, of helplessness and needing their assistance whether we want it or not, applies to adults too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> The same assumption, of helplessness and needing their assistance whether we want it or not, applies to adults too.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Petersen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671529</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671529</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is weird that in all these recollections from people who were kids before the 1990s we have yet to hear from one of the ones with overprotective (for the time) parents.&lt;/blockquote&gt; That &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; weird.  You don&#039;t suppose... something might have &lt;b&gt;happened&lt;/b&gt; to those poor kids?  You know &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scaddistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/carrie.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;who else&lt;/a&gt; had an overprotective parent in the 70s?

Or maybe they&#039;re fine, and simply happily well-adjusted and successful to be posting comments on Boing Boing.  Guess we&#039;ll never know! ;^)

As to the question on where one draws the line, that&#039;s arguable to a degree.  Obviously there&#039;s a certain degree of arbitrariness in declaring someone fit to vote and screw and smoke and die in an overseas war on one&#039;s eighteenth birthday and not one hour earlier, but if you don&#039;t draw a line that affects everyone more-or-less equally, then you have to spend a lot of time evaluating relative maturity levels in individuals to determine when certain privileges of age can be granted.  But we as a society have acknowledged and legislated age requirements for military service, drug and alcohol use, voting, and legal sexual activity, since we&#039;ve come to some wide consensus that those things are not suitable privileges for minors to possess.  And we&#039;ve also (in the USA at least) legislated ages for compulsory education.  But are we willing to legislate age requirements for strolling down a sidewalk?  Should kids be unable to walk unaccompanied to their school before, say, fourth grade?  There are certain limited examples of this already in force in some places.  At my daughter&#039;s public elementary school, kids can walk unattended to the school, except for kindergarteners, whose guardians must walk them into the classroom itself... no dropping them off curbside at that age!  That strikes me as faintly ridiculous (partly since yeah, I walked my ass to kindergarten and home again since the second day), but I don&#039;t squawk about it since it&#039;s only the kindergarteners who &quot;suffer&quot; this particular &quot;indignity.&quot;  (They, of course, don&#039;t mind it a bit.)

But whenever we feel the urge to &quot;draw a line,&quot; it turns out that that line is unfair to one individual or another.  Some five-year-olds are pretty competent agents when it comes to navigating their environments on their own, while some thirty-year-olds can&#039;t get out of their parents&#039; basements (and not just because the job market sucks).  I don&#039;t think anyone&#039;s going to look at a nine-month-old infant crawling down the sidewalk toward the intersection and think, &quot;Well, looks like that li&#039;l dude knows where he&#039;s headed.&quot;  At the same time, treating all school-age and younger minors exactly like that intrepid little infant is doing them a genuine disservice, as well as being an act of wasteful busybodiness.  Cop sees a smallish unattended person walking around, cop can ask questions regarding destination or who and where the responsible guardian is.  If the kid needs help, usually the cop can provide it without taking the kid &quot;downtown&quot; in a cruiser.  Treating the kid like a potential criminal just because the kid&#039;s too young to pay taxes or too short to beep the cop in the nose is just lazy policing, and is not going to improve the department&#039;s standing in the public&#039;s eyes, precisely at a moment when that standing needs all the positive burnishing it can get.

Last night I saw a Public Service Announcement disguised as a 1-minute commercial during &lt;i&gt;The Daily Show&lt;/i&gt;.  It showed some 12ish-year-old kid with a skateboard sitting next to an elderly woman on a bus stop bench.  The bus arrives, the woman boards, the kid doesn&#039;t.  And then he notices that she left her purse behind.  He picks up the purse, glances inside, then dashes down an alley.  A police cruiser happens by and the cops notice this kid hauling ass down the alley carrying a purse.  They follow discreetly, lights and sirens off.  After a few blocks, the kid emerges, panting, at another street, just ahead of the bus.  The woman emerges, and the kid runs up: &quot;Ma&#039;am, you left your purse.&quot;  She thanks him heartily and turns to go.  The cop in the cruiser yells, &quot;Hey kid!  Nice going.  Want a donut?&quot;  And the kid shares a donut with the cop.

It was a PSA for honesty and doing the right thing.  As hackneyed as it was, it brought a tear to my eye, not so much because the kid did the right thing, but because in that fictional big city environment, the TV cop &lt;b&gt;gave the kid the opportunity&lt;/b&gt; to do the right thing.

I want to live in a world where we encourage our kids to be strong, independent, generous, and honest.  And I want to live in a world wherein they&#039;re given a chance to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is weird that in all these recollections from people who were kids before the 1990s we have yet to hear from one of the ones with overprotective (for the time) parents.</p></blockquote>
<p> That <b>is</b> weird.  You don&#8217;t suppose&#8230; something might have <b>happened</b> to those poor kids?  You know <a href="http://www.scaddistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/carrie.jpg" rel="nofollow">who else</a> had an overprotective parent in the 70s?</p>
<p>Or maybe they&#8217;re fine, and simply happily well-adjusted and successful to be posting comments on Boing Boing.  Guess we&#8217;ll never know! ;^)</p>
<p>As to the question on where one draws the line, that&#8217;s arguable to a degree.  Obviously there&#8217;s a certain degree of arbitrariness in declaring someone fit to vote and screw and smoke and die in an overseas war on one&#8217;s eighteenth birthday and not one hour earlier, but if you don&#8217;t draw a line that affects everyone more-or-less equally, then you have to spend a lot of time evaluating relative maturity levels in individuals to determine when certain privileges of age can be granted.  But we as a society have acknowledged and legislated age requirements for military service, drug and alcohol use, voting, and legal sexual activity, since we&#8217;ve come to some wide consensus that those things are not suitable privileges for minors to possess.  And we&#8217;ve also (in the USA at least) legislated ages for compulsory education.  But are we willing to legislate age requirements for strolling down a sidewalk?  Should kids be unable to walk unaccompanied to their school before, say, fourth grade?  There are certain limited examples of this already in force in some places.  At my daughter&#8217;s public elementary school, kids can walk unattended to the school, except for kindergarteners, whose guardians must walk them into the classroom itself&#8230; no dropping them off curbside at that age!  That strikes me as faintly ridiculous (partly since yeah, I walked my ass to kindergarten and home again since the second day), but I don&#8217;t squawk about it since it&#8217;s only the kindergarteners who &#8220;suffer&#8221; this particular &#8220;indignity.&#8221;  (They, of course, don&#8217;t mind it a bit.)</p>
<p>But whenever we feel the urge to &#8220;draw a line,&#8221; it turns out that that line is unfair to one individual or another.  Some five-year-olds are pretty competent agents when it comes to navigating their environments on their own, while some thirty-year-olds can&#8217;t get out of their parents&#8217; basements (and not just because the job market sucks).  I don&#8217;t think anyone&#8217;s going to look at a nine-month-old infant crawling down the sidewalk toward the intersection and think, &#8220;Well, looks like that li&#8217;l dude knows where he&#8217;s headed.&#8221;  At the same time, treating all school-age and younger minors exactly like that intrepid little infant is doing them a genuine disservice, as well as being an act of wasteful busybodiness.  Cop sees a smallish unattended person walking around, cop can ask questions regarding destination or who and where the responsible guardian is.  If the kid needs help, usually the cop can provide it without taking the kid &#8220;downtown&#8221; in a cruiser.  Treating the kid like a potential criminal just because the kid&#8217;s too young to pay taxes or too short to beep the cop in the nose is just lazy policing, and is not going to improve the department&#8217;s standing in the public&#8217;s eyes, precisely at a moment when that standing needs all the positive burnishing it can get.</p>
<p>Last night I saw a Public Service Announcement disguised as a 1-minute commercial during <i>The Daily Show</i>.  It showed some 12ish-year-old kid with a skateboard sitting next to an elderly woman on a bus stop bench.  The bus arrives, the woman boards, the kid doesn&#8217;t.  And then he notices that she left her purse behind.  He picks up the purse, glances inside, then dashes down an alley.  A police cruiser happens by and the cops notice this kid hauling ass down the alley carrying a purse.  They follow discreetly, lights and sirens off.  After a few blocks, the kid emerges, panting, at another street, just ahead of the bus.  The woman emerges, and the kid runs up: &#8220;Ma&#8217;am, you left your purse.&#8221;  She thanks him heartily and turns to go.  The cop in the cruiser yells, &#8220;Hey kid!  Nice going.  Want a donut?&#8221;  And the kid shares a donut with the cop.</p>
<p>It was a PSA for honesty and doing the right thing.  As hackneyed as it was, it brought a tear to my eye, not so much because the kid did the right thing, but because in that fictional big city environment, the TV cop <b>gave the kid the opportunity</b> to do the right thing.</p>
<p>I want to live in a world where we encourage our kids to be strong, independent, generous, and honest.  And I want to live in a world wherein they&#8217;re given a chance to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Petersen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671489</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 23:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671489</guid>
		<description>One-room schoolhouses in the twentieth century... man, what a trip.  My dad remembers one of his classmates showing up to school one day driving a Model A.  Since the kid was a fifth-grader, he was sent home and told not to drive again until he was old enough, and if his horse was unwell then he should arrange a ride with a neighboring adult.

Damned nanny-state school district policies...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One-room schoolhouses in the twentieth century&#8230; man, what a trip.  My dad remembers one of his classmates showing up to school one day driving a Model A.  Since the kid was a fifth-grader, he was sent home and told not to drive again until he was old enough, and if his horse was unwell then he should arrange a ride with a neighboring adult.</p>
<p>Damned nanny-state school district policies&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alcofribas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671441</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcofribas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 23:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671441</guid>
		<description>I know this may sound like a lot of work when you need to pump out the content, but did Boing Boing bother interviewing anyone before broadcasting an anonymous &quot;letter&quot; posted on a website where someone&#039;s trying to sell a book?  There isn&#039;t even a mention of the town or state where it happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this may sound like a lot of work when you need to pump out the content, but did Boing Boing bother interviewing anyone before broadcasting an anonymous &#8220;letter&#8221; posted on a website where someone&#8217;s trying to sell a book?  There isn&#8217;t even a mention of the town or state where it happened.</p>
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		<title>By: Alcofribas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671385</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcofribas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 22:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671385</guid>
		<description>I was beginning to despair of humanity that everyone took this at face value.  I&#039;m glad at least one person is dubious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was beginning to despair of humanity that everyone took this at face value.  I&#8217;m glad at least one person is dubious.</p>
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		<title>By: Alcofribas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671379</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcofribas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671379</guid>
		<description>Being skeptical means to me saying, &quot;Show me proof!&quot;, less than accepting any story that *might* happen.

People willing to back up their claims is the price they pay if they want to be believed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being skeptical means to me saying, &#8220;Show me proof!&#8221;, less than accepting any story that *might* happen.</p>
<p>People willing to back up their claims is the price they pay if they want to be believed.</p>
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		<title>By: Alcofribas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671371</link>
		<dc:creator>Alcofribas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 22:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671371</guid>
		<description>If you call a flimsy blogpost where there isn&#039;t even a mention of where this happened &quot;proof&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you call a flimsy blogpost where there isn&#8217;t even a mention of where this happened &#8220;proof&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: donovan acree</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671245</link>
		<dc:creator>donovan acree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 21:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671245</guid>
		<description>Why would we presume the police to have the right to pick up children? Also how could walking in a public place be considered dangerous?

To prevail under a false imprisonment claim, a plaintiff must prove: 
(1) willful detention;
The police officer willfully kept the child from the parent
(2) without consent;
The parent did not agree (minors cannot give consent)
(3) without authority of law
The officer knew that no law being violated

Further, under US law, the right of the police to detain only exists if they have probable cause to beleive a crime has been committed or if there is reasonable suspicion that the person has or is about to engage in criminal activity. Again, the officer knew no crime was or was going to be commited (other than the one the cop commited)

This meets all criteria for false imprisonment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would we presume the police to have the right to pick up children? Also how could walking in a public place be considered dangerous?</p>
<p>To prevail under a false imprisonment claim, a plaintiff must prove: <br />
(1) willful detention;<br />
The police officer willfully kept the child from the parent<br />
(2) without consent;<br />
The parent did not agree (minors cannot give consent)<br />
(3) without authority of law<br />
The officer knew that no law being violated</p>
<p>Further, under US law, the right of the police to detain only exists if they have probable cause to beleive a crime has been committed or if there is reasonable suspicion that the person has or is about to engage in criminal activity. Again, the officer knew no crime was or was going to be commited (other than the one the cop commited)</p>
<p>This meets all criteria for false imprisonment</p>
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		<title>By: CLamb</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/04/cops-abduct-6-y-o-for-going-to.html#comment-1671114</link>
		<dc:creator>CLamb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=216464#comment-1671114</guid>
		<description> If it was a bad neighborhood I&#039;d think the police wouldn&#039;t have time to capture stray children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> If it was a bad neighborhood I&#8217;d think the police wouldn&#8217;t have time to capture stray children.</p>
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