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	<title>Comments on: Cheat sheet for patient with temporary short-term memory&#160;loss</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Hutson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1675466</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Hutson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1675466</guid>
		<description>Hmm, is it because the things you hold in your head for five minutes—perfectly functional short term memories—then get &quot;lost&quot; on the way to long term memory?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, is it because the things you hold in your head for five minutes—perfectly functional short term memories—then get &#8220;lost&#8221; on the way to long term memory?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Hutson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1675464</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Hutson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1675464</guid>
		<description>He seems to be suffering anterograde amnesia, the inability to store new things into long term memory. I&#039;m genuinely curious as to why people tend to call this condition &quot;short term memory loss.&quot; Any suggestions? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He seems to be suffering anterograde amnesia, the inability to store new things into long term memory. I&#8217;m genuinely curious as to why people tend to call this condition &#8220;short term memory loss.&#8221; Any suggestions? </p>
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		<title>By: Jason Scott</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1675319</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 02:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1675319</guid>
		<description>I had short term memory loss once.  It sucked big time. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had short term memory loss once.  It sucked big time. </p>
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		<title>By: tim necciai</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1674276</link>
		<dc:creator>tim necciai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1674276</guid>
		<description>I think that you are conflating the meaning of deterministic with &quot;destiny&quot; or something like that.  Deterministic does not mean &quot;pre ordained.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you are conflating the meaning of deterministic with &#8220;destiny&#8221; or something like that.  Deterministic does not mean &#8220;pre ordained.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: tim necciai</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1674274</link>
		<dc:creator>tim necciai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1674274</guid>
		<description>Joe, you aren&#039;t making sense.  Saying that the human mind is deterministic is not the same as saying that *all* human minds are exactly the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, you aren&#8217;t making sense.  Saying that the human mind is deterministic is not the same as saying that *all* human minds are exactly the same.</p>
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		<title>By: chgoliz</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1674168</link>
		<dc:creator>chgoliz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1674168</guid>
		<description> Are the Silence and Weeping Angels related to each other?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Are the Silence and Weeping Angels related to each other?</p>
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		<title>By: Missy Pants</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1674058</link>
		<dc:creator>Missy Pants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1674058</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t close your eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t close your eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Lenethen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1674050</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Lenethen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1674050</guid>
		<description>Off topic a bit, sort of. But one of the best halloween costumes I have ever heard of was a duo of friends. One was dressed as Pinocchio, the other guy wore a white shortsleeved shirt and tatooed himself up with a sharpie like the dude in Momento.

In his front pocket was a picture of his buddy in the Pinocchio costume from just prior to going out to the bar, and on the back of the picture in sharpie was written &quot;Don&#039;t believe his lies!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic a bit, sort of. But one of the best halloween costumes I have ever heard of was a duo of friends. One was dressed as Pinocchio, the other guy wore a white shortsleeved shirt and tatooed himself up with a sharpie like the dude in Momento.</p>
<p>In his front pocket was a picture of his buddy in the Pinocchio costume from just prior to going out to the bar, and on the back of the picture in sharpie was written &#8220;Don&#8217;t believe his lies!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SamSam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673990</link>
		<dc:creator>SamSam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673990</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re confused by what is meant by &quot;deterministic.&quot; It definitely does not mean &quot;pre-determined.&quot; It may help to read up on &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chaos Theory&lt;/a&gt;. (Then again, maybe not.) 

I think you&#039;ve been arguing this whole time about something completely different from what the rest of us are talking about.

It means given the exact same inputs that you&#039;d get the same output.

This is why the comment was first raised about amnesia -- it&#039;s as close as you can be to getting &quot;the same inputs&quot; -- the same person, the same situation, and &lt;i&gt;the same memory&lt;/i&gt; each time. Each time it&#039;s a fresh occurrence  no recollection of the previous times, and the person asks the same quite-random question each time.

Of course even in this case it&#039;s hardly &quot;the exact same inputs.&quot; There is certainly changing brain state and some imprinting going on even for a complete amnesiac, and the situation itself isn&#039;t aways exactly the same (people in different positions, different nurses, etc). It would be impossible to actually create the exact same state down to the very last atom. But would certainly be interesting if, hypothetically, the closer you got to replicating the exact same input state in a human, the more their outputs were identical. If this were so, it would be suggestive that humans are deterministic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re confused by what is meant by &#8220;deterministic.&#8221; It definitely does not mean &#8220;pre-determined.&#8221; It may help to read up on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory" rel="nofollow">Chaos Theory</a>. (Then again, maybe not.) </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve been arguing this whole time about something completely different from what the rest of us are talking about.</p>
<p>It means given the exact same inputs that you&#8217;d get the same output.</p>
<p>This is why the comment was first raised about amnesia &#8212; it&#8217;s as close as you can be to getting &#8220;the same inputs&#8221; &#8212; the same person, the same situation, and <i>the same memory</i> each time. Each time it&#8217;s a fresh occurrence  no recollection of the previous times, and the person asks the same quite-random question each time.</p>
<p>Of course even in this case it&#8217;s hardly &#8220;the exact same inputs.&#8221; There is certainly changing brain state and some imprinting going on even for a complete amnesiac, and the situation itself isn&#8217;t aways exactly the same (people in different positions, different nurses, etc). It would be impossible to actually create the exact same state down to the very last atom. But would certainly be interesting if, hypothetically, the closer you got to replicating the exact same input state in a human, the more their outputs were identical. If this were so, it would be suggestive that humans are deterministic.</p>
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		<title>By: Petzl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673943</link>
		<dc:creator>Petzl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673943</guid>
		<description>Freedom isn&#039;t free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom isn&#8217;t free.</p>
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		<title>By: Petzl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673942</link>
		<dc:creator>Petzl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673942</guid>
		<description>Great.  I&#039;ll arm you and tell you where to find John G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great.  I&#8217;ll arm you and tell you where to find John G.</p>
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		<title>By: gd23</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673922</link>
		<dc:creator>gd23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673922</guid>
		<description>Enjoy this trip...And it is a trip</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoy this trip&#8230;And it is a trip</p>
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		<title>By: GazHunter</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673884</link>
		<dc:creator>GazHunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 07:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673884</guid>
		<description>How odd...I wrote this some time ago, not realising it&#039;s reality:


http://huntersfiction.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/reset.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How odd&#8230;I wrote this some time ago, not realising it&#8217;s reality:</p>
<p><a href="http://huntersfiction.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/reset.html" rel="nofollow">http://huntersfiction.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/reset.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: IndexMe</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673811</link>
		<dc:creator>IndexMe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 05:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673811</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of the index cards on keyrings I once saw that Ted Nelson still I presume carries around to assist his memory (not as bad as the OP I believe). Which apparently led to hypertext... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of the index cards on keyrings I once saw that Ted Nelson still I presume carries around to assist his memory (not as bad as the OP I believe). Which apparently led to hypertext&#8230; </p>
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		<title>By: Tom Hudson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673760</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673760</guid>
		<description>You know, I was thinking this same thing.  Having read a few letters like this, I think that upon learning I had the condition, my first question would be, &quot;How many times have we had the same exact conversation?&quot;  And I would be surprised if the answer was anything other than something like &quot;50--and that&#039;s your first question every time.&quot;  I mean, unless something NEW is presented to me, why WOULD I expect my reactions and thoughts to be anything different than the times before.  Certainly there are subtle differences; position in the bed, degree of discomfort, whether I&#039;m hungry or not, time of day, the position of the curtains in the window, whether there&#039;s someone else in the room, what&#039;s playing on TV.  But without any new information, the state of my mind hasn&#039;t been altered in any way, so I would anticipate it to respond to the same way.  If it did, I&#039;d actually be concerned.  Because then that would mean that I&#039;m not in control of my own thinking, that the outcomes of my ability to process new information and act accordingly is at the mercy of some random process that I can&#039;t understand or influence. Hell, any way you look at it, free will is an illusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I was thinking this same thing.  Having read a few letters like this, I think that upon learning I had the condition, my first question would be, &#8220;How many times have we had the same exact conversation?&#8221;  And I would be surprised if the answer was anything other than something like &#8220;50&#8211;and that&#8217;s your first question every time.&#8221;  I mean, unless something NEW is presented to me, why WOULD I expect my reactions and thoughts to be anything different than the times before.  Certainly there are subtle differences; position in the bed, degree of discomfort, whether I&#8217;m hungry or not, time of day, the position of the curtains in the window, whether there&#8217;s someone else in the room, what&#8217;s playing on TV.  But without any new information, the state of my mind hasn&#8217;t been altered in any way, so I would anticipate it to respond to the same way.  If it did, I&#8217;d actually be concerned.  Because then that would mean that I&#8217;m not in control of my own thinking, that the outcomes of my ability to process new information and act accordingly is at the mercy of some random process that I can&#8217;t understand or influence. Hell, any way you look at it, free will is an illusion.</p>
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		<title>By: blueelm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673748</link>
		<dc:creator>blueelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 03:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673748</guid>
		<description>I always wish I got that silly from those things. But the worst I did was ask for some water. Why is that bad? My mom handed me a bottle of water. I tried to drink it without considering that my face was numb and basically paralyzed, and that my mouth was full of gauze and blood (explains why I was thirsty). I figured that out when I managed to pour the water in my mouth only to watch helplessly as it continued down my shirt. Now looking like I dressed up for a zombie run I turned to my mom who was laughing hysterically and said &quot;Oh shit. But I&#039;m still thirsty.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always wish I got that silly from those things. But the worst I did was ask for some water. Why is that bad? My mom handed me a bottle of water. I tried to drink it without considering that my face was numb and basically paralyzed, and that my mouth was full of gauze and blood (explains why I was thirsty). I figured that out when I managed to pour the water in my mouth only to watch helplessly as it continued down my shirt. Now looking like I dressed up for a zombie run I turned to my mom who was laughing hysterically and said &#8220;Oh shit. But I&#8217;m still thirsty.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: blueelm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673744</link>
		<dc:creator>blueelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 03:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673744</guid>
		<description>This is a common thing too with brain injury. And also the sensation that everything of yours has been replaced with an exact copy. Like, these are EXACTLY like the shoes I had right down to the smell, but these aren&#039;t my shoes. That guy who came all this way to be here and is crying looks EXACTLY like my dad, but he&#039;s not my dad. Etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a common thing too with brain injury. And also the sensation that everything of yours has been replaced with an exact copy. Like, these are EXACTLY like the shoes I had right down to the smell, but these aren&#8217;t my shoes. That guy who came all this way to be here and is crying looks EXACTLY like my dad, but he&#8217;s not my dad. Etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: blueelm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673728</link>
		<dc:creator>blueelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 03:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673728</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know that this specific thing doesn&#039;t have to do with memory itself. My grandmother does this. She has vascular dementia and some other complications. As a result she has basically no short term memory at all, and deeply impaired functioning. Talking to her, strangely, is a like part talk board and part parrot. She has a desire for the interaction, but you have to call and return along certain patterns because there are only so many things she can remember to say, or even observations she seems able to make. So she might say &quot;That coffee was good&quot; many times, should anything be there to trigger &quot;coffee&quot; to her. It&#039;s like the last things she thought about it, or bits of memories, are still intact enough that she uses them to kind of patch together an interaction.

Some times it really feels like what is happening is that the environment is triggering a thought that is on the cusp of something else. The way you might run your tongue over the gap where a tooth was lost, over and over, never quite finding what should be there.

But then I think the idea and the sensation of free will are psychological phenomena. Probably necessary ones though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know that this specific thing doesn&#8217;t have to do with memory itself. My grandmother does this. She has vascular dementia and some other complications. As a result she has basically no short term memory at all, and deeply impaired functioning. Talking to her, strangely, is a like part talk board and part parrot. She has a desire for the interaction, but you have to call and return along certain patterns because there are only so many things she can remember to say, or even observations she seems able to make. So she might say &#8220;That coffee was good&#8221; many times, should anything be there to trigger &#8220;coffee&#8221; to her. It&#8217;s like the last things she thought about it, or bits of memories, are still intact enough that she uses them to kind of patch together an interaction.</p>
<p>Some times it really feels like what is happening is that the environment is triggering a thought that is on the cusp of something else. The way you might run your tongue over the gap where a tooth was lost, over and over, never quite finding what should be there.</p>
<p>But then I think the idea and the sensation of free will are psychological phenomena. Probably necessary ones though.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Diekman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673691</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Diekman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 03:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673691</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have to pee&quot; should be at the top of the list. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have to pee&#8221; should be at the top of the list. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jacob Ewing</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673680</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Ewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 02:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673680</guid>
		<description> Yes, because you won&#039;t be remember that you only have a brief recall, and that list would presumably be of the questions you keep asking over, and over, and over, and ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Yes, because you won&#8217;t be remember that you only have a brief recall, and that list would presumably be of the questions you keep asking over, and over, and over, and &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: axoplasm</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673592</link>
		<dc:creator>axoplasm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Mar 2013 01:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673592</guid>
		<description>So if I have 5 minutes of active short term memory, am I gonna want to waste 3 of them reading something like this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if I have 5 minutes of active short term memory, am I gonna want to waste 3 of them reading something like this?</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673499</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 23:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673499</guid>
		<description>Up to a month after you&#039;ve had it taken out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Up to a month after you&#8217;ve had it taken out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jbond</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673472</link>
		<dc:creator>jbond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673472</guid>
		<description>The marks on your arm are to remind you how many times you&#039;ve seen The Silence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The marks on your arm are to remind you how many times you&#8217;ve seen The Silence.</p>
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		<title>By: euansmith</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673470</link>
		<dc:creator>euansmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673470</guid>
		<description>These are none-secateurs... they actually are pruning shears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are none-secateurs&#8230; they actually are pruning shears.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GlyphGryph</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673449</link>
		<dc:creator>GlyphGryph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673449</guid>
		<description>Joe... I don&#039;t think you actually know what deterministic means. It&#039;s simple as saying that if you created infinite iterations with the same state and same inputs, you get the same output. It&#039;s a pretty trivial statement for humans. It has nothing to do with free will. The only interesting bit here as that the inputs just need to be pretty similar, not identical, for the same outcome to happen.

All of your examples either change the state (two different people) or change the inputs (a different environment). They are non sequiters, completely unrelated to the question at hand.

I&#039;m not entirely sure what you think your arguing against, but it isn&#039;t deterministic behaviour.

Deterministic != Predetermined</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe&#8230; I don&#8217;t think you actually know what deterministic means. It&#8217;s simple as saying that if you created infinite iterations with the same state and same inputs, you get the same output. It&#8217;s a pretty trivial statement for humans. It has nothing to do with free will. The only interesting bit here as that the inputs just need to be pretty similar, not identical, for the same outcome to happen.</p>
<p>All of your examples either change the state (two different people) or change the inputs (a different environment). They are non sequiters, completely unrelated to the question at hand.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure what you think your arguing against, but it isn&#8217;t deterministic behaviour.</p>
<p>Deterministic != Predetermined</p>
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		<title>By: billstewart</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673431</link>
		<dc:creator>billstewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673431</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering if the floor thing could be a symptom; one of my reactions to psychedelics is that floor patterns really grab me, at least if they&#039;re over a moderately large area.  Or maybe they&#039;re just shiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering if the floor thing could be a symptom; one of my reactions to psychedelics is that floor patterns really grab me, at least if they&#8217;re over a moderately large area.  Or maybe they&#8217;re just shiny.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Garymon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673432</link>
		<dc:creator>Garymon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673432</guid>
		<description>My understanding of memory loss like his is that it isn&#039;t dumped at such a regular interval. Rather, if the context remains the same the span can stretch longer or if the context is very short then so is the span of memory retention. Of course there is a max span but I don&#039;t recall how long that tends to be. An example of a context change is you open a door and introduce yourself. As long as you stand there (up to the max time) they will retain your name. But as soon as you close the door you and your name are lost even if it has been only a few seconds since you introduced yourself. 

So in Memento he could retain a memory long enough to tattoo it but if that memory was about a person he would need to write or tattoo it before they left and changed the context.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding of memory loss like his is that it isn&#8217;t dumped at such a regular interval. Rather, if the context remains the same the span can stretch longer or if the context is very short then so is the span of memory retention. Of course there is a max span but I don&#8217;t recall how long that tends to be. An example of a context change is you open a door and introduce yourself. As long as you stand there (up to the max time) they will retain your name. But as soon as you close the door you and your name are lost even if it has been only a few seconds since you introduced yourself. </p>
<p>So in Memento he could retain a memory long enough to tattoo it but if that memory was about a person he would need to write or tattoo it before they left and changed the context.  </p>
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		<title>By: DrMedicine</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673409</link>
		<dc:creator>DrMedicine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673409</guid>
		<description>you WOULD say that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you WOULD say that.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jackbird</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673398</link>
		<dc:creator>jackbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 20:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673398</guid>
		<description>My best friend in HS got a concussion and had this effect for a few hours; the worst/best part was that every time the nature of his condition dawned on him (every minute or so), he made the same bad joke.

As for the 50 First Dates reference, I always wondered how she handled the pregnancy/labor they skipped over to get to the last scene of the movie - that would be utterly terrifying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My best friend in HS got a concussion and had this effect for a few hours; the worst/best part was that every time the nature of his condition dawned on him (every minute or so), he made the same bad joke.</p>
<p>As for the 50 First Dates reference, I always wondered how she handled the pregnancy/labor they skipped over to get to the last scene of the movie &#8211; that would be utterly terrifying.</p>
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		<title>By: Prezombie</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/07/cheat-sheet-for-patient-with-t.html#comment-1673370</link>
		<dc:creator>Prezombie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 20:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217188#comment-1673370</guid>
		<description>If you change the inputs to a deterministic machine, Of course the outputs will change. I&#039;m starting to think that you don&#039;t have the right definition of deterministic in your mind. I state that when a black box has the same set of inputs and internal state, if the same output results, the machine is deterministic rather than random. Short term memory loss allows us to have the black box known as the human mind in a relatively fixed state, and the result is that people loop rather than having different outputs each time. In that state and you offer the subject the same choice over and over again, they will make an identical choice over and over again. even if there&#039;s no difference between the two options besides the left one and the right one.

You&#039;ve argued that if the inputs change, or if we swap in a completely different black box, the outputs change, therefore the black box isn&#039;t deterministic, which doesn&#039;t make sense. Deterministic means that the inputs are a major factor in the output, and so is the internal state of the black box. It doesn&#039;t mean that all black boxes have to be identical. Deterministic machines don&#039;t have to be set in stone, merely non-random. If the black box is a mathematical one, taking an input number, and adds to the result the number of times input has been recieved, you get 7&gt;8, 7&gt;9, 7&gt;10, 7&gt;11. The pattern isn&#039;t set in stone, but it&#039;s still deterministic. With the memory loss added, it forgets how many times it&#039;s done the operation and we start getting 7&gt;11, 7&gt;11, 7&gt;11. If you swap in 29 or any other number, the output will be different because the input has changed. 
If we really had something resembling free will, and had an internal mechanism allowing us to choose in a way that wasn&#039;t solely based on our initial state plus the current inputs, people with retrograde amnesia wouldn&#039;t loop so neatly. Sometimes they would ask a question, but other times that same person would be able to deduce that the detail isn&#039;t worth mentioning. When given a room full of different inputs to comment on, they wouldn&#039;t always pick the same one each time they forgot that they had made a comment about the room already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you change the inputs to a deterministic machine, Of course the outputs will change. I&#8217;m starting to think that you don&#8217;t have the right definition of deterministic in your mind. I state that when a black box has the same set of inputs and internal state, if the same output results, the machine is deterministic rather than random. Short term memory loss allows us to have the black box known as the human mind in a relatively fixed state, and the result is that people loop rather than having different outputs each time. In that state and you offer the subject the same choice over and over again, they will make an identical choice over and over again. even if there&#8217;s no difference between the two options besides the left one and the right one.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve argued that if the inputs change, or if we swap in a completely different black box, the outputs change, therefore the black box isn&#8217;t deterministic, which doesn&#8217;t make sense. Deterministic means that the inputs are a major factor in the output, and so is the internal state of the black box. It doesn&#8217;t mean that all black boxes have to be identical. Deterministic machines don&#8217;t have to be set in stone, merely non-random. If the black box is a mathematical one, taking an input number, and adds to the result the number of times input has been recieved, you get 7&gt;8, 7&gt;9, 7&gt;10, 7&gt;11. The pattern isn&#8217;t set in stone, but it&#8217;s still deterministic. With the memory loss added, it forgets how many times it&#8217;s done the operation and we start getting 7&gt;11, 7&gt;11, 7&gt;11. If you swap in 29 or any other number, the output will be different because the input has changed.<br />
If we really had something resembling free will, and had an internal mechanism allowing us to choose in a way that wasn&#8217;t solely based on our initial state plus the current inputs, people with retrograde amnesia wouldn&#8217;t loop so neatly. Sometimes they would ask a question, but other times that same person would be able to deduce that the detail isn&#8217;t worth mentioning. When given a room full of different inputs to comment on, they wouldn&#8217;t always pick the same one each time they forgot that they had made a comment about the room already.</p>
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