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	<title>Comments on: Tropes vs Women in Video Games part one: Damsels in&#160;Distress</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Luke Sideris</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1677279</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Sideris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1677279</guid>
		<description>While this video was very comprehensive, as somebody new to a lot of the feminist topics she&#039;s handling I wish she&#039;d spent some time exploring the impact of these tropes and what makes the stereotypes negative or harmful. Considering the video series is called &quot;Tropes vs women&quot; I was hoping she&#039;d reach outside of the games themselves into how the tropes impact the female gamer experience, but the video felt more like a history report.
If anyone can point me in the right direction for more information it would be appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While this video was very comprehensive, as somebody new to a lot of the feminist topics she&#8217;s handling I wish she&#8217;d spent some time exploring the impact of these tropes and what makes the stereotypes negative or harmful. Considering the video series is called &#8220;Tropes vs women&#8221; I was hoping she&#8217;d reach outside of the games themselves into how the tropes impact the female gamer experience, but the video felt more like a history report.<br />
If anyone can point me in the right direction for more information it would be appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Girard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1676512</link>
		<dc:creator>Girard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 04:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1676512</guid>
		<description>Are you arguing that Samus is somehow a damsel in distress? Or are you illiterate and couldn&#039;t read the title of the video? Why would Samus be at all relevant to that video? I&#039;m sure she&#039;ll show up in some other capacity in a more relevant video - either for her endgame strip-teases, or her pathetic characterization in Other M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you arguing that Samus is somehow a damsel in distress? Or are you illiterate and couldn&#8217;t read the title of the video? Why would Samus be at all relevant to that video? I&#8217;m sure she&#8217;ll show up in some other capacity in a more relevant video &#8211; either for her endgame strip-teases, or her pathetic characterization in Other M.</p>
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		<title>By: Girard</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1676511</link>
		<dc:creator>Girard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 04:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1676511</guid>
		<description>Disney&#039;s not known for making very progressive films, nor thematically consistent ones. Remember, this was a movie with the theme that there are &#039;no real bad guys,&#039; where the climax involved a moustache-twirling villain turning into a monster bug and getting thrown into a volcano.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disney&#8217;s not known for making very progressive films, nor thematically consistent ones. Remember, this was a movie with the theme that there are &#8216;no real bad guys,&#8217; where the climax involved a moustache-twirling villain turning into a monster bug and getting thrown into a volcano.</p>
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		<title>By: ohbejoyful</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1676437</link>
		<dc:creator>ohbejoyful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1676437</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; I watched the first 1-2 minutes

&gt;&gt;Am I missing something?

Yes - the rest of the video.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; I watched the first 1-2 minutes</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;Am I missing something?</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; the rest of the video.</p>
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		<title>By: Bastuki</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1676423</link>
		<dc:creator>Bastuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1676423</guid>
		<description>Are you missing something?

Yeah, the fact that doing a good deed doesn&#039;t negate your previous bad deeds!
So according to you, the existence of Kameo completely negates what Nintendo did with Crystal in Star Fox?Kameo was made by Rare, just like Dinosaur Planet. It was Nintendo&#039;s misogyny that killed Rare&#039;s original idea and made it a sexist piece of shit.And according to you, that shouldn&#039;t be acknowledged or discussed, because Kameo.

Also, you seem to have a poor grasp of story structure. Anita CLEARLY states that this will be a 12 part video exploration of all themes, and yet you want it aaaaaaaall crammed in the 1st one.

Ridiculous children, I tell ya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you missing something?</p>
<p>Yeah, the fact that doing a good deed doesn&#8217;t negate your previous bad deeds!<br />
So according to you, the existence of Kameo completely negates what Nintendo did with Crystal in Star Fox?Kameo was made by Rare, just like Dinosaur Planet. It was Nintendo&#8217;s misogyny that killed Rare&#8217;s original idea and made it a sexist piece of shit.And according to you, that shouldn&#8217;t be acknowledged or discussed, because Kameo.</p>
<p>Also, you seem to have a poor grasp of story structure. Anita CLEARLY states that this will be a 12 part video exploration of all themes, and yet you want it aaaaaaaall crammed in the 1st one.</p>
<p>Ridiculous children, I tell ya.</p>
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		<title>By: Zum Zamim</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1676136</link>
		<dc:creator>Zum Zamim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1676136</guid>
		<description>I think I might have missed the point of the video. I watched the first 1-2 minutes where she laments that the UK game developer Rare made a game about a male fox rescuing a female damsel in distress, because Nintendo told Rare to make it that way, but she does not seem to mention that Rare followed up with an even bigger game (Kameo) featuring a female lead rescuing male “dudes in distress”

Am I missing something? 
Is the goal to collect a bunch of money to film a PSA to tell us that Japanese people are backward compared to westerners?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I might have missed the point of the video. I watched the first 1-2 minutes where she laments that the UK game developer Rare made a game about a male fox rescuing a female damsel in distress, because Nintendo told Rare to make it that way, but she does not seem to mention that Rare followed up with an even bigger game (Kameo) featuring a female lead rescuing male “dudes in distress”</p>
<p>Am I missing something? <br />
Is the goal to collect a bunch of money to film a PSA to tell us that Japanese people are backward compared to westerners?</p>
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		<title>By: C W</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1676018</link>
		<dc:creator>C W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1676018</guid>
		<description>Ain&#039;t nothing wrong with adding breadth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ain&#8217;t nothing wrong with adding breadth.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675967</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675967</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Are people usually fully clothed under a full suit of armour?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes, or even more than fully-clothed.  Usually you put some padding under it because armor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Are people usually fully clothed under a full suit of armour?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, or even more than fully-clothed.  Usually you put some padding under it because armor.</p>
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		<title>By: wysinwyg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675941</link>
		<dc:creator>wysinwyg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675941</guid>
		<description> Because she looks exactly like a robot except in the credits where she&#039;s wearing a bikini or undies or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Because she looks exactly like a robot except in the credits where she&#8217;s wearing a bikini or undies or something.</p>
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		<title>By: SumAnon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675940</link>
		<dc:creator>SumAnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675940</guid>
		<description>My thoughts exactly. Zoey and Rochelle are pretty excellent female characters. 
Even the one or two times main female characters in the Resident Evil series get captured (Clair in Code Veronica, Jill in REmake, and Ada in 4) it isn&#039;t the drive of the game, it&#039;s for all of 30 seconds in a cut scene, and they arn&#039;t presented as helpless damsels. Ashley in 4 is an exception... but she isn&#039;t a repeat character, and her Damsel presence is offset by Ada who runs around doing her spy stuff.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thoughts exactly. Zoey and Rochelle are pretty excellent female characters.<br />
Even the one or two times main female characters in the Resident Evil series get captured (Clair in Code Veronica, Jill in REmake, and Ada in 4) it isn&#8217;t the drive of the game, it&#8217;s for all of 30 seconds in a cut scene, and they arn&#8217;t presented as helpless damsels. Ashley in 4 is an exception&#8230; but she isn&#8217;t a repeat character, and her Damsel presence is offset by Ada who runs around doing her spy stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: danimagoo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675932</link>
		<dc:creator>danimagoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675932</guid>
		<description>&quot;For example, in Ancient Greece -- as I recall ...&quot;
Wow! How old are you?
(sorry, I couldn&#039;t resist)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For example, in Ancient Greece &#8212; as I recall &#8230;&#8221;<br />
Wow! How old are you?<br />
(sorry, I couldn&#8217;t resist)</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Emmett</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675690</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Emmett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675690</guid>
		<description>Throwing my $0.02 worth in:

I think there is a larger issue at work in the patterns of &quot;women being portrayed in lousy ways.&quot;  

Speaking *very* generally, it&#039;s often been like this through history.

For example, in Ancient Greece -- as I recall -- the playwright Euripedes deliberately sets up Electra as being completely useless in his play named after her.  She doesn&#039;t accomplish much beyond bemoaning her fate, while all the other characters are busy doing things.  

(I wrote a screenplay based on the tragedy, and the notes were: &quot;The girl&#039;s a zero,&quot; which was sort of the point of the myth/tragedy/screenplay.)Meanwhile, Euripedes portrays Electra&#039;s mother as a sort of the opposite pole of evil-female-media-portrayals: dangerous, violent slut.  

Which was sort of Euripedes&#039; ironic point: &quot;Look at how poorly we portray women in our culture!&quot;

So, this is not a new problem.  And we&#039;re still asking the same question. 

Perhaps it is because women aren&#039;t usually the ones writing/filming these stories.

Or perhaps it&#039;s because women have better things to do than write stories.  

Or, maybe, it&#039;s because when they do write stories -- like J.K. Rowling, Stephenie Meyer, etc. --  the authors are typically villainized (at least initially), either in ad hominem attacks, or via their stories, which are basically said to be vehicles of evil.  

For example, the vehicles-of-evil thing regarding Harry Potter stories goes without saying, despite extended spiritual/Christian metaphors and patterns throughout.  Similarly, Bella Swan goes from being a typically nervous teen through an extended, hero&#039;s journey/spiritual metaphor to become most powerful being in the natural and supernatural worlds, yet is widely criticized as weak, a &quot;poor role model,&quot; a &quot;victim of abuse,&quot; etc., etc., etc. 

Comparatively, warrior-class Katniss, who personally wins far more than her wildest hopes, is left mentally-disturbed and broken, seemingly unable to enjoy any of the happiness she&#039;s earned -- a permanent victim, despite her &quot;victor&quot; status.  I get that dramatic irony, but while her character steals failure from the jaws of victory, she is still widely praised as a being &quot;wonderful&quot; role model.  Murderer or not.

So I see some humanity-wide perceptual problems here, with successful women -- in any story -- viewed as a threat/undesirable.

And... I&#039;ll just wait here while the Twilight trolls come out.  Step right up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throwing my $0.02 worth in:</p>
<p>I think there is a larger issue at work in the patterns of &#8221;women being portrayed in lousy ways.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Speaking *very* generally, it&#8217;s often been like this through history.</p>
<p>For example, in Ancient Greece &#8212; as I recall &#8212; the playwright Euripedes deliberately sets up Electra as being completely useless in his play named after her.  She doesn&#8217;t accomplish much beyond bemoaning her fate, while all the other characters are busy doing things.  </p>
<p>(I wrote a screenplay based on the tragedy, and the notes were: &#8220;The girl&#8217;s a zero,&#8221; which was sort of the point of the myth/tragedy/screenplay.)Meanwhile, Euripedes portrays Electra&#8217;s mother as a sort of the opposite pole of evil-female-media-portrayals: dangerous, violent slut.  </p>
<p>Which was sort of Euripedes&#8217; ironic point: &#8220;Look at how poorly we portray women in our culture!&#8221;</p>
<p>So, this is not a new problem.  And we&#8217;re still asking the same question. </p>
<p>Perhaps it is because women aren&#8217;t usually the ones writing/filming these stories.</p>
<p>Or perhaps it&#8217;s because women have better things to do than write stories.  </p>
<p>Or, maybe, it&#8217;s because when they do write stories &#8212; like J.K. Rowling, Stephenie Meyer, etc. &#8212;  the authors are typically villainized (at least initially), either in ad hominem attacks, or via their stories, which are basically said to be vehicles of evil.  </p>
<p>For example, the vehicles-of-evil thing regarding Harry Potter stories goes without saying, despite extended spiritual/Christian metaphors and patterns throughout.  Similarly, Bella Swan goes from being a typically nervous teen through an extended, hero&#8217;s journey/spiritual metaphor to become most powerful being in the natural and supernatural worlds, yet is widely criticized as weak, a &#8220;poor role model,&#8221; a &#8220;victim of abuse,&#8221; etc., etc., etc. </p>
<p>Comparatively, warrior-class Katniss, who personally wins far more than her wildest hopes, is left mentally-disturbed and broken, seemingly unable to enjoy any of the happiness she&#8217;s earned &#8212; a permanent victim, despite her &#8220;victor&#8221; status.  I get that dramatic irony, but while her character steals failure from the jaws of victory, she is still widely praised as a being &#8220;wonderful&#8221; role model.  Murderer or not.</p>
<p>So I see some humanity-wide perceptual problems here, with successful women &#8212; in any story &#8212; viewed as a threat/undesirable.</p>
<p>And&#8230; I&#8217;ll just wait here while the Twilight trolls come out.  Step right up.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Emmett</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675675</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Emmett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675675</guid>
		<description>Idk, allowing negative comments didn&#039;t seem to hurt Rebecca Black&#039;s pocket book any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Idk, allowing negative comments didn&#8217;t seem to hurt Rebecca Black&#8217;s pocket book any.</p>
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		<title>By: blackangelDL</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675642</link>
		<dc:creator>blackangelDL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675642</guid>
		<description>Peach is an active and relevant character in multiple Mario games such as Paper Mario where she helps Mario from affair and makes multiple attempts to escape from Bowser, Super Mario RPG where she joins your party and Super Paper Mario where she is a main character and part of your party and Super Princess Peach where she is the main character and has to save Mario.

In the Zelda series Zelda did have her own game (wasn&#039;t that great tbh), in more recent entries of the franchise Zelda has been given more depth especially in Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks where you literally couldn&#039;t complete the game without playing as her (she was trapped in a suit of armour) even in Ocarine of Time Zelda appeared before you in the form of a badass ninja called Shiek where she would assist you and as Zelda she helped you been Ganondorf in the final showdown. You could argue that Link is frozen in time as he is the silent male who simply abliges to the fact he has to save the princess.

In the story mode of Super Smash Bros. Brawl Zelda and Peach actually team up and make a competent and effective team while Link and Mario almost kill each other due to a misunderstanding.

Even so for nes games saving a women had no sexist malice involved it was simply a plot device that the developement team wouldn&#039;t waste their very limited space with character depth and intricate plots.

Also Video games in general don&#039;t really make much of an attempt to give their characters much depth. For example men are portrayed and ripped, violent, badass, psychopaths such as Kratos, Dante, Travis Touchdown, who just kill for the lols. Also in fighting games there are as many ripped, good looking, shirtless men with 6 packs as there are beautiful scantily clad female characters.

To be honest I find the situation of women in games to be improving in current times with female characters such as Lightning, Chell, Alyx and (rebooted) Lara Croft. By analyzing games that were released over 20 years ago of course there are going to be some outdated views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peach is an active and relevant character in multiple Mario games such as Paper Mario where she helps Mario from affair and makes multiple attempts to escape from Bowser, Super Mario RPG where she joins your party and Super Paper Mario where she is a main character and part of your party and Super Princess Peach where she is the main character and has to save Mario.</p>
<p>In the Zelda series Zelda did have her own game (wasn&#8217;t that great tbh), in more recent entries of the franchise Zelda has been given more depth especially in Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks where you literally couldn&#8217;t complete the game without playing as her (she was trapped in a suit of armour) even in Ocarine of Time Zelda appeared before you in the form of a badass ninja called Shiek where she would assist you and as Zelda she helped you been Ganondorf in the final showdown. You could argue that Link is frozen in time as he is the silent male who simply abliges to the fact he has to save the princess.</p>
<p>In the story mode of Super Smash Bros. Brawl Zelda and Peach actually team up and make a competent and effective team while Link and Mario almost kill each other due to a misunderstanding.</p>
<p>Even so for nes games saving a women had no sexist malice involved it was simply a plot device that the developement team wouldn&#8217;t waste their very limited space with character depth and intricate plots.</p>
<p>Also Video games in general don&#8217;t really make much of an attempt to give their characters much depth. For example men are portrayed and ripped, violent, badass, psychopaths such as Kratos, Dante, Travis Touchdown, who just kill for the lols. Also in fighting games there are as many ripped, good looking, shirtless men with 6 packs as there are beautiful scantily clad female characters.</p>
<p>To be honest I find the situation of women in games to be improving in current times with female characters such as Lightning, Chell, Alyx and (rebooted) Lara Croft. By analyzing games that were released over 20 years ago of course there are going to be some outdated views.</p>
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		<title>By: Snig</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675585</link>
		<dc:creator>Snig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675585</guid>
		<description>She&#039;ll be around presently to each viewer&#039;s home to retrofit your computers with 3D technology and Surround Sound.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She&#8217;ll be around presently to each viewer&#8217;s home to retrofit your computers with 3D technology and Surround Sound.  </p>
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		<title>By: Felton / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675534</link>
		<dc:creator>Felton / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 13:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675534</guid>
		<description>anansi133 said &quot;reference,&quot; not &quot;reinforce.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anansi133 said &#8220;reference,&#8221; not &#8220;reinforce.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ocker3</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675478</link>
		<dc:creator>ocker3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675478</guid>
		<description>How would you say they reinforce the tropes? I would argue they transcend them eventually </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would you say they reinforce the tropes? I would argue they transcend them eventually </p>
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		<title>By: ocker3</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675477</link>
		<dc:creator>ocker3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675477</guid>
		<description>Vanellope is a key character to the movie, she has her own back story, her own story arc, her own motivations which may clash with the main male character&#039;s goals, she&#039;s an excellent example of a strong independant character who both helps, and is helped by the titular character. There&#039;s a reason she features strongly in the trailers. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vanellope is a key character to the movie, she has her own back story, her own story arc, her own motivations which may clash with the main male character&#8217;s goals, she&#8217;s an excellent example of a strong independant character who both helps, and is helped by the titular character. There&#8217;s a reason she features strongly in the trailers. </p>
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		<title>By: ocker3</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675475</link>
		<dc:creator>ocker3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675475</guid>
		<description> Yup, that&#039;s a long list of games with female characters, how about a discussion of how One of them is actually a strong character and not just a two-dimensional prop?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Yup, that&#8217;s a long list of games with female characters, how about a discussion of how One of them is actually a strong character and not just a two-dimensional prop?</p>
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		<title>By: Jello</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675468</link>
		<dc:creator>Jello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675468</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s so good oh man play itttt especially if you wanna be a pirate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s so good oh man play itttt especially if you wanna be a pirate</p>
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		<title>By: bzishi</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675460</link>
		<dc:creator>bzishi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675460</guid>
		<description>It looks like you tried to spam a list of games. Most of these have token characters or deeply flawed representations (like the Final Fantasy* or Metroid series). Nonetheless, you did list probably the greatest representation of a female character in gaming with April Ryan in The Longest Journey. Mirror&#039;s Edge also has a decent representation of a female character that is outside of the RPG or adventure game genre (which is rare). So congratulations for that, even though I question your motives here. You should shrink this list down to about ten titles and not include crappy representations. Here&#039;s my list:

April Ryan in the Longest Journey
Kate Walker in Syberia
Commander Shephard in Mass Effect 1-3 (yes, you do have the option of playing as a woman which gamers refer to as FemShep)
Victoria McPherson in Still Life
Zoë Castillo in Dreamfall
Faith in Mirror&#039;s Edge
Lightning in Final Fantasy XIII

I didn&#039;t get to ten, but this list includes characters that exist for themselves and not just to empower the men around them. There are a lot of characters that I like that I excluded, like Bastilla Shan in SW:KOTOR, Annah-of-the-Shadows in Planescape: Torment, Princess Ashe in Final Fantasy XII, Clementine in The Walking Dead, etc., because they weren&#039;t the central character or that they could arguably only exist for helping a central male character continue his plot. It is a short list. If I had to do the same thing with men, I&#039;d probably come up with 100 or more entries (though to be fair, I&#039;ve probably forgotten 5-10 good female characters).

Note: I think Final Fantasy has recently made significant improvements, though all female characters still appear as sex objects. Nonetheless, the Final Fantasy 13 series actually spent quite a lot of time thoroughly developing the women to the point that the men were the less developed characters!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like you tried to spam a list of games. Most of these have token characters or deeply flawed representations (like the Final Fantasy* or Metroid series). Nonetheless, you did list probably the greatest representation of a female character in gaming with April Ryan in The Longest Journey. Mirror&#8217;s Edge also has a decent representation of a female character that is outside of the RPG or adventure game genre (which is rare). So congratulations for that, even though I question your motives here. You should shrink this list down to about ten titles and not include crappy representations. Here&#8217;s my list:</p>
<p>April Ryan in the Longest Journey<br />
Kate Walker in Syberia<br />
Commander Shephard in Mass Effect 1-3 (yes, you do have the option of playing as a woman which gamers refer to as FemShep)<br />
Victoria McPherson in Still Life<br />
Zoë Castillo in Dreamfall<br />
Faith in Mirror&#8217;s Edge<br />
Lightning in Final Fantasy XIII</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t get to ten, but this list includes characters that exist for themselves and not just to empower the men around them. There are a lot of characters that I like that I excluded, like Bastilla Shan in SW:KOTOR, Annah-of-the-Shadows in Planescape: Torment, Princess Ashe in Final Fantasy XII, Clementine in The Walking Dead, etc., because they weren&#8217;t the central character or that they could arguably only exist for helping a central male character continue his plot. It is a short list. If I had to do the same thing with men, I&#8217;d probably come up with 100 or more entries (though to be fair, I&#8217;ve probably forgotten 5-10 good female characters).</p>
<p>Note: I think Final Fantasy has recently made significant improvements, though all female characters still appear as sex objects. Nonetheless, the Final Fantasy 13 series actually spent quite a lot of time thoroughly developing the women to the point that the men were the less developed characters!</p>
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		<title>By: Rindan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675453</link>
		<dc:creator>Rindan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 08:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675453</guid>
		<description>You seem to be a console nut, and I avoid consoles, especially Japanese RPGs, like the plague, so I can only respond the the handful that I have actually played.  That said, you seem to have clearly missed my point, so let me spell out very slowly for you.  Damsel in distress is sexist and dumb.  A she-rambo is not sexist, but still dumb.  A well portrayed female who isn&#039;t a cartoon she-rambo or a damsel in distress who is well portrayed as a human is rare.

Lets hit the list of the ones I actually have played.
 
Boderlands 1 &amp; 2:  No.  These get marked squarely into the cartoon category.  As I said, she-rambo&#039;s are fine, but not human.  You could swap the women in this game withrobot aliens and no one would notice.
 
Cthulhu Saves the World:  WTF are you talking about?  Did you miss the &quot;well portrayed women&quot; part that you quoted?  What woman was &quot;well portrayed&quot; in that?  Hell, what male was well portrayed?  Don&#039;t get me wrong, it was a fun game, but it didn&#039;t exactly have deep characterization, which is what I was pretty clearly talking about.  Did you confuse deep &quot;characterization&quot; with &quot;no characterization&quot;?
 
The Longest Journey: Never actually played it, but from what I hear it does in fact have an interesting and human female character.  
 
Metroid series:  No.  This is a she-rambo.  Not only is it a she-rambo, but you can&#039;t even tell the sex of your character until the end.  If you do well enough in the original you get to see her in a bikini!  Oh joy.  If you consider this to be a &quot;well portrayed woman&quot;, I have nothing but pity for you.  The woman in Metroid is a well portrayed woman about as much as Gordon Freeman is a well portrayed man... which is to say not at all.  When she isn&#039;t stripping into a bikini it isn&#039;t sexist, but it isn&#039;t contributing anything either.
 
Mirror&#039;s Edge: Getting better.  This is actually a pretty decent example of a well portrayed female protagonist.  Granted, she is only slightly less of a mute than Gordon Freeman, but there is some character in there.

You missed Mrs. Packman... and also my point.  My point was that the damsel in distress is a bad stereotype, but that she-rambo, while potentially less sexist, isn&#039;t much of an improvement.  Women characters without a little depth and humanity are at best mindless cartoons like their male rambo counterparts.  What is missing are well portrayed women that are believable. Women in Half Life 2 and Mass Effect is have lines and they don&#039;t veer off into the territory of damsel in distress or mindless rambo character.   They have bad ass and believable personalities that fall somewhere int he realm of believability and there for contribute more than their fair share. 

The world isn&#039;t completely devoid of female protagonist that are interesting and well characterized, but they are more the exception than the rule.  Like I said, that scene with Alyx in Half Life 2 stuck with me because it was so masterfully done and lacking in most other games.  Female characters that actually have character and fall outside of the she-rambo or damsel in distress trope are rare.

My point is that you are deftly ignored my entire post.  My post mentions damsel in distress obliquely three times.  The fucking post wasn&#039;t about the damsel in distress point.  The fucking post was about portrayals of women that are interesting and believable.  Alyx was picked out because she is interesting and believable, not because she isn&#039;t a damsel in distress.  What makes Alyx awesome is that she is human.  She reacts like a bad ass, but shows signs of stress and horror.  She isn&#039;t a cartoon.  

Blasting off a list of what I assume are mostly Japanese RPGs isn&#039;t a counterpoint.  It is a list of either she-rambo&#039;s or women who, while not a damsel in distress or she-rambo, have the personality of a cardboard box.  No offense to the Japanese, but they are not exactly known for their anti-patriarchal commentary in mass media or video games.  Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe you actually have a list of brilliantly portrayed women, but if I, with a Steam account that is worth more than a few thousand dollars haven&#039;t played them, they not exactly main stream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be a console nut, and I avoid consoles, especially Japanese RPGs, like the plague, so I can only respond the the handful that I have actually played.  That said, you seem to have clearly missed my point, so let me spell out very slowly for you.  Damsel in distress is sexist and dumb.  A she-rambo is not sexist, but still dumb.  A well portrayed female who isn&#8217;t a cartoon she-rambo or a damsel in distress who is well portrayed as a human is rare.</p>
<p>Lets hit the list of the ones I actually have played.</p>
<p>Boderlands 1 &amp; 2:  No.  These get marked squarely into the cartoon category.  As I said, she-rambo&#8217;s are fine, but not human.  You could swap the women in this game withrobot aliens and no one would notice.</p>
<p>Cthulhu Saves the World:  WTF are you talking about?  Did you miss the &#8220;well portrayed women&#8221; part that you quoted?  What woman was &#8220;well portrayed&#8221; in that?  Hell, what male was well portrayed?  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, it was a fun game, but it didn&#8217;t exactly have deep characterization, which is what I was pretty clearly talking about.  Did you confuse deep &#8220;characterization&#8221; with &#8220;no characterization&#8221;?</p>
<p>The Longest Journey: Never actually played it, but from what I hear it does in fact have an interesting and human female character.  </p>
<p>Metroid series:  No.  This is a she-rambo.  Not only is it a she-rambo, but you can&#8217;t even tell the sex of your character until the end.  If you do well enough in the original you get to see her in a bikini!  Oh joy.  If you consider this to be a &#8220;well portrayed woman&#8221;, I have nothing but pity for you.  The woman in Metroid is a well portrayed woman about as much as Gordon Freeman is a well portrayed man&#8230; which is to say not at all.  When she isn&#8217;t stripping into a bikini it isn&#8217;t sexist, but it isn&#8217;t contributing anything either.</p>
<p>Mirror&#8217;s Edge: Getting better.  This is actually a pretty decent example of a well portrayed female protagonist.  Granted, she is only slightly less of a mute than Gordon Freeman, but there is some character in there.</p>
<p>You missed Mrs. Packman&#8230; and also my point.  My point was that the damsel in distress is a bad stereotype, but that she-rambo, while potentially less sexist, isn&#8217;t much of an improvement.  Women characters without a little depth and humanity are at best mindless cartoons like their male rambo counterparts.  What is missing are well portrayed women that are believable. Women in Half Life 2 and Mass Effect is have lines and they don&#8217;t veer off into the territory of damsel in distress or mindless rambo character.   They have bad ass and believable personalities that fall somewhere int he realm of believability and there for contribute more than their fair share. </p>
<p>The world isn&#8217;t completely devoid of female protagonist that are interesting and well characterized, but they are more the exception than the rule.  Like I said, that scene with Alyx in Half Life 2 stuck with me because it was so masterfully done and lacking in most other games.  Female characters that actually have character and fall outside of the she-rambo or damsel in distress trope are rare.</p>
<p>My point is that you are deftly ignored my entire post.  My post mentions damsel in distress obliquely three times.  The fucking post wasn&#8217;t about the damsel in distress point.  The fucking post was about portrayals of women that are interesting and believable.  Alyx was picked out because she is interesting and believable, not because she isn&#8217;t a damsel in distress.  What makes Alyx awesome is that she is human.  She reacts like a bad ass, but shows signs of stress and horror.  She isn&#8217;t a cartoon.  </p>
<p>Blasting off a list of what I assume are mostly Japanese RPGs isn&#8217;t a counterpoint.  It is a list of either she-rambo&#8217;s or women who, while not a damsel in distress or she-rambo, have the personality of a cardboard box.  No offense to the Japanese, but they are not exactly known for their anti-patriarchal commentary in mass media or video games.  Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe you actually have a list of brilliantly portrayed women, but if I, with a Steam account that is worth more than a few thousand dollars haven&#8217;t played them, they not exactly main stream.</p>
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		<title>By: marilove</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675428</link>
		<dc:creator>marilove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675428</guid>
		<description>Oh and I almost forgot:


&lt;blockquote&gt;if I started trying to argue &quot;good&quot; female characters then everyone would just nitpick them apart in order to facilitate their own agenda&lt;/blockquote&gt;Of course. How convenient!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and I almost forgot:</p>
<blockquote><p>if I started trying to argue &#8220;good&#8221; female characters then everyone would just nitpick them apart in order to facilitate their own agenda</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course. How convenient!</p>
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		<title>By: marilove</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675422</link>
		<dc:creator>marilove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 06:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675422</guid>
		<description>Cool story, bro.  Clearly you are super, duper smart and we really needed another lecture from you about a subject you&#039;ve clearly done no research on and know nothing about.

But you know, if you&#039;re bored, you could just copy/paste some more characters names to prove some point I&#039;m not convinced you understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool story, bro.  Clearly you are super, duper smart and we really needed another lecture from you about a subject you&#8217;ve clearly done no research on and know nothing about.</p>
<p>But you know, if you&#8217;re bored, you could just copy/paste some more characters names to prove some point I&#8217;m not convinced you understand.</p>
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		<title>By: marilove</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675421</link>
		<dc:creator>marilove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 06:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675421</guid>
		<description>Oh for &lt;i&gt; fuck&#039;s sake. &lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;d much prefer intelligent responses to what I can only call internet drivel so if you&#039;d like to actually post an intelligent response then I&#039;ll be waiting.&lt;/blockquote&gt;You know, if you&#039;re going to spend so much time mansplaining, can you at least &lt;i&gt;say&lt;/I&gt; something? It doesn&#039;t even have to be interesting.  Just say &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt;!

Someone claimed &quot;The number of well portrayed women in video gaming is dismally small.&quot;

And your reply was simply a list of names. That&#039;s it.  No other comment. Well, aside from the condescending and completely content-free &quot;hmmm&quot;. Hmmmm, what?  What exactly are you &quot;Hmmmm&quot;ing about? That you were able to create a list of names?I am impressed!  A list of names. Solid work. That must have taken a lot of time to copy and paste!

It&#039;s totally hilarious to me that you are wagging your finger at @twitter-212575908:disqus  and claiming that his response to your empty, pointless, time-wasting &quot;internet drivel&quot; is ... internet drivel.

You are projecting like crazy right now, man. It is &lt;i&gt;astonishing&lt;/i&gt; to me that you think your random list of names is somehow a freakin&#039; response to someone&#039;s claim that female characters are not very well represented in video games.

How is a random list of female character names in any way a reasonable or intelligent response to that claim? I don&#039;t get it. We all are aware that there are female characters. I don&#039;t even recognize a near majority of those names. 99% of them. I might recognize one. So how do I know any of these female characters are even good representations?   No context. No facts. No research. Just a copy-pasted list of names.  And funk daddy is immature? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

This is just ... I just ... sigh.


Seriously, this is just getting &lt;b&gt;fucking stupid&lt;/b&gt;

ETA: It appears it&#039;s just a list of random characters from games you&#039;ve played.  Seriously WHY? What was the point? You made a list. From ... games you&#039;ve played. And they happen to be female characters. Okay...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh for <i> fuck&#8217;s sake. </i></p>
<blockquote><p>I&#8217;d much prefer intelligent responses to what I can only call internet drivel so if you&#8217;d like to actually post an intelligent response then I&#8217;ll be waiting.</p></blockquote>
<p>You know, if you&#8217;re going to spend so much time mansplaining, can you at least <i>say</i> something? It doesn&#8217;t even have to be interesting.  Just say <i>something</i>!</p>
<p>Someone claimed &#8220;The number of well portrayed women in video gaming is dismally small.&#8221;</p>
<p>And your reply was simply a list of names. That&#8217;s it.  No other comment. Well, aside from the condescending and completely content-free &#8220;hmmm&#8221;. Hmmmm, what?  What exactly are you &#8220;Hmmmm&#8221;ing about? That you were able to create a list of names?I am impressed!  A list of names. Solid work. That must have taken a lot of time to copy and paste!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s totally hilarious to me that you are wagging your finger at @twitter-212575908:disqus  and claiming that his response to your empty, pointless, time-wasting &#8220;internet drivel&#8221; is &#8230; internet drivel.</p>
<p>You are projecting like crazy right now, man. It is <i>astonishing</i> to me that you think your random list of names is somehow a freakin&#8217; response to someone&#8217;s claim that female characters are not very well represented in video games.</p>
<p>How is a random list of female character names in any way a reasonable or intelligent response to that claim? I don&#8217;t get it. We all are aware that there are female characters. I don&#8217;t even recognize a near majority of those names. 99% of them. I might recognize one. So how do I know any of these female characters are even good representations?   No context. No facts. No research. Just a copy-pasted list of names.  And funk daddy is immature? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.</p>
<p>This is just &#8230; I just &#8230; sigh.</p>
<p>Seriously, this is just getting <b>fucking stupid</b></p>
<p>ETA: It appears it&#8217;s just a list of random characters from games you&#8217;ve played.  Seriously WHY? What was the point? You made a list. From &#8230; games you&#8217;ve played. And they happen to be female characters. Okay&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Anderson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675412</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 06:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675412</guid>
		<description>David- I think you&#039;re basically right, but I also think it&#039;s more complicated if only because Blow intentionally and straightforwardly evokes the damsel in distress theme as a theme and then sort of deconstructs it. By forcing us to acknowledge that the kind of straightforward canned narrative presented in video games where you can &quot;get the girl&quot; through perseverance isn&#039;t always real, and that this perseverance can sometimes be damaging and or &quot;bad&quot; in the language of the game. It doesn&#039;t really counter the trope as much as call it into sharp focus and asking us what it is normally telling us. I do think that there is a discussion of the the damsel trope in Braid - because it is the character&#039;s objectification of her that pushes her away - at least that&#039;s my interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David- I think you&#8217;re basically right, but I also think it&#8217;s more complicated if only because Blow intentionally and straightforwardly evokes the damsel in distress theme as a theme and then sort of deconstructs it. By forcing us to acknowledge that the kind of straightforward canned narrative presented in video games where you can &#8220;get the girl&#8221; through perseverance isn&#8217;t always real, and that this perseverance can sometimes be damaging and or &#8220;bad&#8221; in the language of the game. It doesn&#8217;t really counter the trope as much as call it into sharp focus and asking us what it is normally telling us. I do think that there is a discussion of the the damsel trope in Braid &#8211; because it is the character&#8217;s objectification of her that pushes her away &#8211; at least that&#8217;s my interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Specter Von Baren</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675408</link>
		<dc:creator>Specter Von Baren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675408</guid>
		<description> This is a list of games I either own or have experience with in some way (Seeing a Let&#039;s Play as an example)  I didn&#039;t go out looking for games, I just went through my collection or looked through my memory. So there being more games is not only likely, it&#039;s guaranteed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> This is a list of games I either own or have experience with in some way (Seeing a Let&#8217;s Play as an example)  I didn&#8217;t go out looking for games, I just went through my collection or looked through my memory. So there being more games is not only likely, it&#8217;s guaranteed.</p>
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		<title>By: David M Pickett</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675404</link>
		<dc:creator>David M Pickett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675404</guid>
		<description>All Braid&#039;s ending does is SPOILER ALERT reverse the player&#039;s expectation of which side of the game they are one. The damsel in distress is still the object being contested by two men. The player just ends up being the bad guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All Braid&#8217;s ending does is SPOILER ALERT reverse the player&#8217;s expectation of which side of the game they are one. The damsel in distress is still the object being contested by two men. The player just ends up being the bad guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Funk Daddy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675395</link>
		<dc:creator>Funk Daddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675395</guid>
		<description> It&#039;s true. In my own circles I&#039;m a &quot;secret gamer&quot; even though I know most of my people are gamers. I like immersion, and real-life connections in-game mess with that, so my mmorpg is incognito and my single player gaming is private. 

Also not a WoW fan, and don&#039;t want to offend the many I know. 

One family of my family, an Aunt, Uncle (in their 60s) and 3 kids (early 20s to mid 30s) all WoW together, with the kids RL partners/boyfriends/girlfriends and many family friends besides. I don&#039;t want to tell them I play EVE...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> It&#8217;s true. In my own circles I&#8217;m a &#8220;secret gamer&#8221; even though I know most of my people are gamers. I like immersion, and real-life connections in-game mess with that, so my mmorpg is incognito and my single player gaming is private. </p>
<p>Also not a WoW fan, and don&#8217;t want to offend the many I know. </p>
<p>One family of my family, an Aunt, Uncle (in their 60s) and 3 kids (early 20s to mid 30s) all WoW together, with the kids RL partners/boyfriends/girlfriends and many family friends besides. I don&#8217;t want to tell them I play EVE&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: marilove</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2013/03/08/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games.html#comment-1675365</link>
		<dc:creator>marilove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 04:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boingboing.net/?p=217493#comment-1675365</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s still just a movie though and while a lot of fun, not particularly important to games OR movies. I mean, it was great, don&#039;t get me wrong, but it wasn&#039;t all that ground-breaking. Shrug. It just seems rather off-topic to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s still just a movie though and while a lot of fun, not particularly important to games OR movies. I mean, it was great, don&#8217;t get me wrong, but it wasn&#8217;t all that ground-breaking. Shrug. It just seems rather off-topic to me.</p>
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