Comments on: A Salute to Bradley Manning, Whistleblower, As We Hear His Words For The First Time http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 07:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: feralferal http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1679191 feralferal Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:38:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1679191 Must have been a helluva power point presentation Must have been a helluva power point presentation

]]> By: feralferal http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1679187 feralferal Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:36:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1679187 He had access to compartmentalized information. If he was working as an intelligence specialist, he would have had access to information much worse than what was released. In all - he released documents regarding what had happened, not was to happen. He had access to compartmentalized information. If he was working as an intelligence specialist, he would have had access to information much worse than what was released.

In all – he released documents regarding what had happened, not was to happen.

]]> By: feralferal http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1679184 feralferal Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:34:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1679184  The day I joined the Army, I took an oath to the Constitution, not to any one person, regulation or order. If a court decides that he is guilty of a crime, he will certainly spend time in prison, but if he upheld his oath, he deserves respect for his actions as a soldier. Remember, it's an oath to defend this country from all aggressors, foreign and domestic.  The day I joined the Army, I took an oath to the Constitution, not to any one person, regulation or order. If a court decides that he is guilty of a crime, he will certainly spend time in prison, but if he upheld his oath, he deserves respect for his actions as a soldier.

Remember, it’s an oath to defend this country from all aggressors, foreign and domestic.

]]> By: feralferal http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1679177 feralferal Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:31:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1679177  If you piss off someone in the government or military, the first thing they often put out there is that you are gay. The core of military folks see that as the absolute worst thing a person can be. I saw this all the time when I was in the Army. It's about 99.9% unlikely that Manning is gay.  If you piss off someone in the government or military, the first thing they often put out there is that you are gay. The core of military folks see that as the absolute worst thing a person can be. I saw this all the time when I was in the Army. It’s about 99.9% unlikely that Manning is gay.

]]> By: Gene Roman http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1679125 Gene Roman Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1679125 Gotta love a country where we try Nazis in Nuremburg and tell them that they "knew better" and should not have followed orders to kill Jews, but here people who whistleblow are automatically guilty before proven innocent. Gotta love a country where we try Nazis in Nuremburg and tell them that they “knew better” and should not have followed orders to kill Jews, but here people who whistleblow are automatically guilty before proven innocent.

]]> By: Sallynotadude http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1678273 Sallynotadude Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1678273  It's totally irrelevant! Duh, maybe you didn't get my post...  It’s totally irrelevant! Duh, maybe you didn’t get my post…

]]> By: cavalrysword http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1678159 cavalrysword Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:49:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1678159 Their sexual orientation seems as irrelevant as their height or eye color. Their sexual orientation seems as irrelevant as their height or eye color.

]]> By: cavalrysword http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1678150 cavalrysword Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:46:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1678150 I am not much impressed by medals that were given for risk-free actions. Apparently an Air Force Chaplain got a Bronze Star for creating a PowerPoint presentation. I cannot further discuss that without recourse to massive amounts of profanity. I am not much impressed by medals that were given for risk-free actions.

Apparently an Air Force Chaplain got a Bronze Star for creating a PowerPoint presentation.

I cannot further discuss that without recourse to massive amounts of profanity.

]]> By: Marja Erwin http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1678024 Marja Erwin Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1678024 The oath to Hitler? The classic case of how oaths get people to do evil things and keep people from doing good things, or even from doing less evil things to try to stop the more evil things? The oath to Hitler?

The classic case of how oaths get people to do evil things and keep people from doing good things, or even from doing less evil things to try to stop the more evil things?

]]> By: anansi133 http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677902 anansi133 Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:23:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677902  One thing still confuses me: PFC Manning is an enlisted man, and so his oath of office includes the pledge to obey orders. A first Lieutenant does *not* have that part of his oath. In a military tribunal, that makes a difference.  Why does an enlisted man have access to so much sensitive information? Shouldn't the officers who set that system up be held accountable for their role in the leak?  Danial Ellsberg was a civilian at the time he released the pentagon papers, so he was protected by the constitution in a way that military personnel are not. Though I suppose the way Julian Assange is being treated should tell us all we need to know about freedom of the press here. TL;DR:  Bradley Manning is not the only person involved in the story, but it's less embarrassing to the pentagon if he's held up as a 'lone gunman'.  One thing still confuses me: PFC Manning is an enlisted man, and so his oath of office includes the pledge to obey orders. A first Lieutenant does *not* have that part of his oath. In a military tribunal, that makes a difference.

 Why does an enlisted man have access to so much sensitive information? Shouldn’t the officers who set that system up be held accountable for their role in the leak?

 Danial Ellsberg was a civilian at the time he released the pentagon papers, so he was protected by the constitution in a way that military personnel are not. Though I suppose the way Julian Assange is being treated should tell us all we need to know about freedom of the press here.

TL;DR:  Bradley Manning is not the only person involved in the story, but it’s less embarrassing to the pentagon if he’s held up as a ‘lone gunman’.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677883 Nathan Hornby Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:56:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677883 It's almost like people can be heroes for different reasons. It’s almost like people can be heroes for different reasons.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677878 Nathan Hornby Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:54:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677878 I bet the Nazi's made pledges too. I bet the Nazi’s made pledges too.

]]> By: Nathan Hornby http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677874 Nathan Hornby Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677874 He means the values Americans think they have, not the ones they actually have! He means the values Americans think they have, not the ones they actually have!

]]> By: Drew_Gehringer http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677799 Drew_Gehringer Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:55:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677799  No, he didn't.  Did you actually read throguh this post?  Ellsberg went over that.  Manning had access to top secret level stuff, and yet absolutely nothing he released was actually classified at that level.  I don't think you can call that "releasing everything he could get his hands on".  No, he didn’t.  Did you actually read throguh this post?  Ellsberg went over that.  Manning had access to top secret level stuff, and yet absolutely nothing he released was actually classified at that level. 

I don’t think you can call that “releasing everything he could get his hands on”.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677711 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 13 Mar 2013 04:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677711 Someone who brings the attention of the world to the illegal and immoral transgressions of the US is also a hero, and in the long run, probably saves more lives. But you might be interested to hear that the US is giving out a new military medal to remote drone operators and ranking it higher than the Bronze Star or the Purple Heart. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/distinguished-warfare-medal-drone-pilots_n_2852677.html Someone who brings the attention of the world to the illegal and immoral transgressions of the US is also a hero, and in the long run, probably saves more lives.

But you might be interested to hear that the US is giving out a new military medal to remote drone operators and ranking it higher than the Bronze Star or the Purple Heart.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/distinguished-warfare-medal-drone-pilots_n_2852677.html

]]> By: cavalrysword http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677663 cavalrysword Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677663 Captain Ed Freeman of the United States Army died at the age of 70, in Boise, Idaho. On November 14, 1967, an Army unit was under fire in the central highlands of Viet Nam.  They were outnumbered eight to one, and the fire was so intense that the Commanding Officer ordered the MedEvac choppers to stop coming in. Capt. Freeman was in the area.  He was not MedEvac, so it wasn't his job.  But he heard the call and came in.  He landed through the machine gun fire, and sat there while three wounded were loaded onto his helicopter.  Then he flew them through the gunfire and to a hospital. After which he came back. Thirteen more times. He took 29 wounded soldiers to safety and medical treatment. And it wasn't until it was over that anyone knew Capt. Freeman had been shot four times in the legs and left arm. THAT, gentlemen, is a hero. Even though the media chose not to report his death. It took them 34 years to award him the Medal of Honor. Captain Ed Freeman of the United States Army died at the age of 70, in Boise, Idaho.

On November 14, 1967, an Army unit was under fire in the central highlands of Viet Nam.  They were outnumbered eight to one, and the fire was so intense that the Commanding Officer ordered the MedEvac choppers to stop coming in.

Capt. Freeman was in the area.  He was not MedEvac, so it wasn’t his job.  But he heard the call and came in.  He landed through the machine gun fire, and sat there while three wounded were loaded onto his helicopter.  Then he flew them through the gunfire and to a hospital.

After which he came back.

Thirteen more times.

He took 29 wounded soldiers to safety and medical treatment.

And it wasn’t until it was over that anyone knew Capt. Freeman had been shot four times in the legs and left arm.

THAT, gentlemen, is a hero.

Even though the media chose not to report his death.

It took them 34 years to award him the Medal of Honor.

]]> By: JohnAnnArbor http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677613 JohnAnnArbor Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:25:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677613  If he'd released just what he was so upset about, he might have a point (still be wrong, but make sense).  That's not what he did.  He released everything he could get his hands on, no matter what it was.   If he’d released just what he was so upset about, he might have a point (still be wrong, but make sense).  That’s not what he did.  He released everything he could get his hands on, no matter what it was. 

]]> By: Jason Chilcott http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677596 Jason Chilcott Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677596 So if you made a pledge to protect a friends/work mate/family member/etc's secrets and then they told you that they murdered someone, you believe that the right course of action would be to honour the pledge rather than take the info to the cops.....  Right..... So if you made a pledge to protect a friends/work mate/family member/etc’s secrets and then they told you that they murdered someone, you believe that the right course of action would be to honour the pledge rather than take the info to the cops…..  Right…..

]]> By: JohnAnnArbor http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677537 JohnAnnArbor Wed, 13 Mar 2013 00:08:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677537 All he did was log in to SIPRNET and download a bunch of SECRET-level material, going for mass quantity (which points out a serious flaw in how SIPRNET monitors users, incidentally).  He pledged to protect that material and didn't.  So, he should face prison.  Any other talk is just self-serving window dressing.  "Oooh, I found something that makes me feel bad!  Let's send it to some random guy I met on the internet!" All he did was log in to SIPRNET and download a bunch of SECRET-level material, going for mass quantity (which points out a serious flaw in how SIPRNET monitors users, incidentally).  He pledged to protect that material and didn’t.  So, he should face prison.  Any other talk is just self-serving window dressing.  “Oooh, I found something that makes me feel bad!  Let’s send it to some random guy I met on the internet!”

]]> By: PatGinSD http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677535 PatGinSD Wed, 13 Mar 2013 00:05:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677535 We are all indebted to our courageous whistleblowers! Without them, all the secret crimes would never be revealed. Please loudly support them, as we the public are their only hope. We know our justice system is seriously unjust. We are all indebted to our courageous whistleblowers! Without them, all the secret crimes would never be revealed.
Please loudly support them, as we the public are their only hope. We know our justice system is seriously unjust.

]]> By: Marja Erwin http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677486 Marja Erwin Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:16:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677486 It's likely Manning is straight, however, it's probably best to wait until Manning responds to the speculation. It’s likely Manning is straight, however, it’s probably best to wait until Manning responds to the speculation.

]]> By: AnyTech http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677459 AnyTech Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:50:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677459 ...and a real human being. Huge respect to BB for putting this up. Thank you. …and a real human being.

Huge respect to BB for putting this up.
Thank you.

]]> By: Marko Raos http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677369 Marko Raos Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:59:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677369 A true hero. A true hero.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677341 Antinous / Moderator Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:45:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677341 <blockquote>This is all so contrary to our values.</blockquote>This is exactly our values. When I was a child in the 1960s, the common response to seeing protesters on the news was, "They should all be shot."

This is all so contrary to our values.

This is exactly our values. When I was a child in the 1960s, the common response to seeing protesters on the news was, “They should all be shot.”

]]> By: Sallynotadude http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677294 Sallynotadude Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:15:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677294 Neat! Were the two biggest whistleblowers gay? Gays rock! Neat! Were the two biggest whistleblowers gay? Gays rock!

]]> By: William Dudley Haywood http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677172 William Dudley Haywood Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:17:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677172 *no excuse *no excuse

]]> By: l337n00b http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677012 l337n00b Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:28:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677012 You don't even need to be in government to be above the law.  How many Goldman Sachs CEOs have been arrested for fraud so far? You don’t even need to be in government to be above the law.  How many Goldman Sachs CEOs have been arrested for fraud so far?

]]> By: l337n00b http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1677010 l337n00b Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:27:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1677010 If you live in the US you live in an oppressive state.  It's going to be police states for the lot of us.  By the time North American nations start breaking out the concentration camps we'll all have shouted "Godwin's law" so many times we won't even be able to make the connection in our heads. If you live in the US you live in an oppressive state.  It’s going to be police states for the lot of us.  By the time North American nations start breaking out the concentration camps we’ll all have shouted “Godwin’s law” so many times we won’t even be able to make the connection in our heads.

]]> By: Boundegar http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1676933 Boundegar Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:26:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1676933 There is one important difference between Manning's case and Ellsberg's.  In the 1970s we believed the government was accountable to the rule of law. There is one important difference between Manning’s case and Ellsberg’s.  In the 1970s we believed the government was accountable to the rule of law.

]]> By: JohnQPublic http://boingboing.net/2013/03/12/a-salute-to-bradley-manning-w.html#comment-1676923 JohnQPublic Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:20:00 +0000 http://boingboing.net/?p=218170#comment-1676923 Thank you for posting this sober and realistic perspective. The government has been motivated by political posturing and to convey a public image of strength rather than to serve justice.  They really want to make an example out of him. I have a hard time believing Manning would get a fair trial as a result.  Whatever his crime is, if any, the government's disproportionately heavy-handed prosecution and general treatment of this defendant is appalling and only lends greater credibility to Manning's cause. Thank you for posting this sober and realistic perspective. The government has been motivated by political posturing and to convey a public image of strength rather than to serve justice.  They really want to make an example out of him. I have a hard time believing Manning would get a fair trial as a result.  Whatever his crime is, if any, the government’s disproportionately heavy-handed prosecution and general treatment of this defendant is appalling and only lends greater credibility to Manning’s cause.

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