The latest episode of Game of Thrones is called "The Climb," and it sees us crossing the Wall into the land of heavy-handed metaphors. What's the difference between a pin and a brooch, anyway?
Let's recap!
Gilly has a rescuer in Sam, albeit not your textbook hero, to say the least. She's not particularly impressed with his lack of skill in firebuilding, but as she's never left her father's twisted compound, stories of his high birth and the good food and camraderie promised at The Wall seem to interest her.
He tries to impress her by showing her the mysterious obsidian ("dragonglass") knife he found at the Fist of the First Men, but the only kind of bravery he's got is a willingness to sing for her in the dark.
On Team Bran, things are tense between Meera Reed and Osha, who doesn't seem to appreciate having a rival woman around. "You're a good little hunter," Osha snipes, when Bran urges everyone to relax. Through one of his greendreams, Jojen learns Jon Snow is no longer at the Wall in the sense they expected, which may complicate their plans to bring Bran north to reunite with his half-brother.
No, Jon is still a ways north of the Wall for now, in the Wildling band that still generally mistrusts him. Jon must still intend to rejoin the Night's Watch and betray the Wildlings once they arrive at Castle Black, but the relationship that's rapidly developed between him and Ygritte complicates things, of course.
She's never been beyond the Wall, nor seen the top of it, and it's this prospect, not necessarily loyalty to her fellow Free Folk, that motivates her. And she's decided Jon is going to be her partner now -- you can't really blame her, as despite the fact she has considerably more experience than Jon, she comes from a society where men giving oral sex to women is so novel as to be unheard-of.
She reveals she hasn't bought in to his act of loyalty to Mance Rayder, and that she doesn't especially care. "I'm your woman now, Jon Snow," she declares. "You're going to be loyal to your woman." She also threatens him never to betray her -- if things keep going the way they are, though, he may have to. Her assertion that "it's you and me that matters to me and you" will be proven later in the episode, when Orell nearly cuts them both from the wall to try to save himself, and it's Jon that rescues Ygritte even though he risks falling, too.
At the Brotherhood Without Banners, Anguy is teaching Arya to better her bow and arrow skills, when along comes Melisandre, in search of her king's blood sacrifice for the Lord of Light -- and for Stannis' campaign. The show has taken many liberties with the chronology of the books thus far, but this might be the largest one yet.
In the novels Robb Stark marries Jeyne Westerling, a woman we don't really get to know, but the decision to render Lady Talisa as a character lets us see the woman that might be worth risking a kingdom for, and is a solid choice.
The books don't show us the rather complicated process by which Theon comes into the custody of his twisted captor -- after losing Winterfell he merely disappears for some time -- but this arc of Theon's life will become significant, and to let us see it happen makes sense for a visual medium, especially as the show has fleshed out Theon so beautifully thus far.
As we mentioned last week, Sansa is written to marry a different Tyrell of Highgarden, but choosing to involve Loras instead simplifies the intended transaction and reduces extra characters without meaningfully changing its role in the plot.
The show has given us elements of Stannis and Melisandre's relationship that the novel only implies, and the men who imprison Jaime and Brienne, while loosely-allied mercenaries in the books, are made Bolton bannermen here to little loss, since the pair ends up in Roose Bolton's custody anyway. And Ros is invented for the purposes of the show -- the books show Littlefinger's actions through the brothel via a composite of various women, while Ros' character adds a sympathetic human face to the role of courtesans at King's Landing.
However, Melisandre of the books pursues other Baratheon bastards in the hopes of completing her blood sacrifice, and the decision to have her seize Gendry looks geared to encourage viewers to continue to engage with the characters they've already invested in rather than drag in new ones or emphasize further minor additions. She never encounters Thoros in the novels, but their interaction here is interesting -- they represent two approaches to the same doubtlessly-powerful faith.
"I don't like that woman," Arya snaps instantaneously upon seeing the lovely red sorceress. "That's because you're a girl," the brothers tease. "What does that have to do with anything?" She snaps back. It's a nice send-up of the conflicts going on among women elsewhere in the kingdom -- Meera and Osha, or Cersei and Margaery.
Arya is again let down that gold becomes such a major factor even for godly, noble "brothers", who are willing to sell their new blacksmith to Melisandre even though Thoros must know the grim purpose for which she and her red god need him.
The look on Melisandre's face when Arya aggressively grabs her is brilliant. The sorceress reads the hunger for revenge in the little girl's eyes, and certainly does not view her as a harmless child.
Theon is still being tortured by his captor. We've been talking about the Bastard of Bolton all along, but the show seems actually content to let viewers be as confused as Theon is as to the identity of this perverse man, who seems to enjoy physical as much as emotional abuse. Theon presumes he's being tortured by Stark allies, possibly an Umber or a Karstark, as revenge for his betrayal at Winterfell, and for a moment the young brutalizer even plays along, before relenting: "Everything I told you is a lie," he says. "This isn't happening to you for a reason."
The Starks actually have few allies left. Their last hope is the distasteful Frey family, whose elderly, cantankerous head, Walder Frey, is still sore about the fact Robb broke their alliance by marrying Talisa. There are a good many Frey spawn, and many of them are named after Walder: Here we have two Freys named Black Walder and "Lame" Lothar, come to negotiate on their patriarch's behalf with the King in the North, who despite winning every battle will lose the war without their help.
The Freys are not a handsome family, and Edmure is averse to marrying the proffered Roslin Frey, sight unseen. But with the help of his uncle Brynden the Blackfish and at Robb's stricken, humbled urging, he agrees to the arrangement.
The Freys also want the nightmarish, tumbledown Harrenhal holding, which is currently in the custody of Roose Bolton, and which the Lannisters have promised to Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish as part of his promotional package. It's funny that there are three different claims on such an undesirable bit of castle, but maybe not so -- if it's useless and no-one really wants it, it's probably easy for people to be contented with the offering or promise thereof.
Speaking of Harrenhal and Roose Bolton, it seems the Starks are fundamentally losing another ally. Roose has a maimed Jaime Lannister on his hands, probably the highest-value hostage in a war against King's Landing. This, despite the fact that Jaime literally cannot operate silverware and eat without Brienne's help any more. Not only could Roose buy some favor with the Lannisters in the face of Robb's losing war, but returning Jaime to his parents also might help House Bolton dodge consequences for what his uppity bannerman Locke did to famous Jaime's famous sword-hand.
Even though Brienne's vow involves taking Jaime to King's Landing on behalf of the Starks, it doesn't seem this is something Roose will allow her to continue doing, despite Jaime's insistence that she's the one best tasked with protecting him.
They've given her an awful pink dress to wear, here, a certain loss of Brienne's own center of power and dignity. If you want to disable this pair, take Jaime's hand away and put Brienne in a pink dress. Nonetheless, that Bolton begins acting on its own is a notable breach of loyalty to the Starks. Jaime notes Roose's refusal to drink alcohol is "suspicious to ordinary people." Nice emblem of the fundamental coldness of House Bolton (as if their X-shaped "flayed man" sigil wasn't enough).
Finally Olenna Redwyne has taken her verbal sparring straight to the top man, and finds a well-matched negotiating partner in Tywin Lannister. To bring the Tyrell family back under control after he discovered their plot to steal Sansa away by marriage to Loras, remember, Tywin has decided Sansa will marry his son Tyrion, and that his daughter Cersei ought to be the one to marry Loras.
Olenna thinks Cersei is too old for Highgarden's glorious son, as her childbearing years are running out. Tywin rather harshly points out that Loras is gay anyway, a predilection that doesn't fuss the boy's grandmother much. This entire scene is brilliant, but when she implies that even Tywin must have experimented with other boys when young, his mortification is hilarious. Olenna suggests Tywin shouldn't be concerned with rumors of Loras' sexuality, but moreso with rumors of Cersei and Jamie's illicit relationship. Even a vicious rumor has power at court and puts both their famlies at risk, she asserts, though clearly both parents here know it's not a rumor.
Tywin tries threatening Olenna instead: He has the power to name Loras to the Kingsguard, which would involve a sacred vow not to marry, bear children or hold lands. By this same vow, Aerys II stole Tywin's own heir, Jaime, from him (a theft Jaime himself was happy to abet, given he wanted to stay unmarried and near his sister). Yet just as Tywin prepares the order, Olenna snaps the quill -- Tywin is always ignoring all verbal challengers in favor of his mighty pen, so this is a gesture of her triumph. Probably doesn't mean she's consented to the wedding, though.
In case you've lost count, there are now three weddings in the works: Sansa's wedding to Loras via a secretive Tyrell plot has now been thwarted by Tywin's plan to step in and marry her to Tyrion first; Joffrey's extravagant wedding to Margaery Tyrell is still being expensively-planned, and Edmure is now committed to go to the Frey home at the Twins river bridge and marry Roslin. Weddings, yay! Finally a bit of light coming into the grim, dark Game of Thrones world of misfortune, right? Those weddings should all be really nice.
Poor Loras is so uncomfortable with Sansa it's cute, and the girl is still so obsessed with courtly fantasies she hardly seems to notice her groom is more excited about food, tournaments, and the aesthetic details of her brocade gown than Sansa herself. Cersei and Tyrion look on, knowing even that flimsy illusion will soon be shattered. Both siblings have been defeated by the vice of their controlling father and their mad, awful young king, whom Cersei admits she couldn't stop from attempting to have Tyrion killed, rather idiotically in the open, during the Blackwater battle as revenge for trying to discipline him.
Cersei's only hope is for Jaime to come and rescue her; Tyrion even implies that Jaime would kill Loras for marrying her, thus setting her free. Tyrion really has no hope at all. Both Lannister kids seem to enjoy, in this scene, an uneasy sort of bonding over their family's unfortunate noose. "We're all being shipped off to hell together," Cersei rues. "Seven kingdoms united in fear of Tywin Lannister," Tyrion agrees.
What's worse is that Tyrion has to grievously disappoint Sansa by telling her about the new plan for her marriage in front of his lover Shae, who's shown in the past how demanding and possessive she can be of her Lion. Awk-ward. I wish we could have seen that conversation, but when we cut to Shae's stony expression and Sansa's bitter tears as the boat she should have taken -- the one crowned with Littlefinger's mockingbird crest -- heads for the horizon, we can imagine.
Looks like Ros has been given to Joffrey and his perverse crossbow fetish to die in frankly horrifying indignity (the arrows in her body a callback to Arya's aiming lesson) -- this is the price Ros has paid for sharing Littlefinger's plans with Varys, apparently, and is a sick-makingly abrupt way for that character to go out. Littlefinger and Varys are both quietly machining constantly behind the scenes, but in the conversation we see as Littlefinger admires the Iron Throne (he's even counted the blades that comprise it), we learn about the differences in their approaches.
Varys believes in the good of the realm, and that there is salvation in order, while Littlefinger embraces the idea that chaos creates opportunity. He's obsessed with "the climb," the challenge of gaining station in life from his significantly low birth, and upheavals and disruptions present him the best chance to grab more opportunities for himself -- like his current chance to gain lands and a high-born wife by marrying Lysa Tully, the creepy sister to his beloved Catelyn and proprietess of the forbidding Eyrie lands. Thus far Lysa's stayed hidden from the war, paranoid about her over-mothered, sickly son, but the Lannisters hope this marriage will compel her to be an ally.
"Only the ladder is real," Littlefinger declares dramatically, as Jon Snow and the Wildlings reach the top of the wall. Yet when Ygritte looks upon the green lands below the wall from a great height, for the first time, and her eyes fill with tears and Jon kisses her, we wonder, isn't love real, too? It's sad love carries no currency in Westeros, is a weakness, a sign of things to come.
Oh man! But there's gonna be weddings! Can't wait!
To what extent do you think upward mobility is actually possible in the Game of Thrones world? Now that the various factions are looking to be at more complex advantages and disadvantages to one another, if you had to draw a score sheet, what would it look like? And another question for you: What do you think of the departures made from the books so far -- logical, streamlined editing that GRRM needed anyway, or major betrayals?
You guys are my favorite commenters on the whole internet, so I'm looking forward to your discussion. Again, please don't talk about any of the weddings, no colors, no initials, no vague allusions. We are all very excited, I know, but let's try to ensure the comments discussions don't progress any further than the show has illustrated thus far.
Can anyone explain to me why those Game of Thrones posts are even here?
“To what extent do you think upward mobility is actually possible in the Game of Thrones world?”
There’s a fair bit, actually, if you’ve got some noble blood. Varys and Littlefinger are the obvious ones, but even some bastards do fairly well for themselves.
Littlefinger’s own grandfather was lowborn, so there’s actually a lot of possibilities if you shine in the right place in front of the right people.
Yeah, possibly the more difficult issue is what is the *price* of upward mobility in GoT.
If you’re lucky, it can be as little as three dogs.
Or a boatload of onions…
I think there’s definitely upward mobility, but it’s very rare for someone do it in 1 generation– it seems the kind of thing that slooowly works up over time, with the efforts of successive generations. Littlefinger is bucking the odds, but being a manipulative bastard to do it. I think Varys COULD get himself a title, but unlike Littlefinger, he sees a title as coming with responsibilities he can’t uphold, like taking care of his smallfolk, et cetera. He has kind of created himself an invisible title though– through his giant network of ‘little birds’ he might command more able bodies than some of the lords with large land holdings.
My personal rule has always been to judge screen adaptations of written works as separate entities from their written progenitors, although this can be harder to do with some works than others. *coughcoughlastairbendercoughcough*
I’m fine with the changes made in Game of Thrones, as they all seem to serve the plot by either streamlining characters into one amalgam of bit parts or providing us with viewpoints not explored in the books.
I actually retroactively dislike some changes last season after seeing what they’re doing this season.
For example?
Anything to do with Loras.
i didn’t understand changes to first interactions with Ygritte, release vs. escape, and the whole “chase” scene between the blacks and the wildlings. the book’s take is much more interesting, and plausible given Jon Snow’s character, IMO
My own rule is to treat the screen version as an alternate world of the book’s. As long as the divergence is close enough to be interesting, I’m satisfied.
Agreed.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep / Blade Runner is a good example of this. Both are excellent. Both are totally different.
“Yet just as Tywin prepares the order, Olenna snaps the quill — Tywin is always ignoring all verbal challengers in favor of his mighty pen, so this is a gesture of her triumph. Probably doesn’t mean she’s consented to the wedding, though.”
Have to disagree with you there. The breaking of the quill, a physical act in a war of words, is actually a sign of Olenna’s defeat (however graceful). She does consent to the wedding; she has been outplayed by Tywin, hence the line “It’s rare to meet a man who lives up to his reputation.”
Also a nice illustration of the fact that, when you’re playing at Olenna’s and Tywin’s level, the pen is mightier than the sword — even in a sword-happy place like Westeros.
i suppose i spoil my own recaps very accidentally sometimes, being aware of who does and does not get married to whom when
ARGH – not yet you hadn’t!
Yes, this is how I too read the scene. A sort of “Okay, you win.” act of contrition.
“Those weddings should all be really nice.” I see what you did there (and I haven’t even read the books)!
I keep telling my flatmates (who have not read this far in the books), how it’ll get much happier soon because of all the Lovely Lovely Weddings!
They don’t believe me, I’m not sure why, but I can’t wait to see MOAR WEDDINGS, because in Westeros they all go wonderfully, and nothing bad will ever happen.
Honest.
My favourite bit of this episode was when Cersei called Marjorie ‘a little doe eyed whore’ it really made me chuckle. She’s the best.
The ending was cheese on toast though
As for the question, little Bailish and Varys and done all right for themselves, but Ros seemed to try to ‘play above her station’ a bit and was brutally killed by that inbred psycho.
My favorite line of the series so far was when Cersei told Robert that the only thing holding the realm together was their marriage. These upcoming marriages won’t provide the stability to society that the leaders think they will. Westeros would be hanging by a thread even without a civil war.
Upward mobility can be either through wealth or status. Littlefinger has wealth and has been mobile, but wants status. I sympathize with Littlefinger, despite the fact I loathe him, that there needs to be chaos which aims to repair this society. Though he seems to want to replace the old regime with his regime.
Varys, who is a much better character and person, is defending something unsustainable. Is the whole Game of Thrones totally futile?
Littlefinger is a typical psychopath, addicted to chaos as an opportunity for power over others, realm or no realm. Although the order defended by Varys obviously isn’t a whole lot better. Either way, it’s as futile as a chair made of sharp swords.
It’d be interesting to see which characters pass or fail the Hare Psychopathy Checklist – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist
Littlefinger doesn’t have the ‘promiscuous sexual behavior’ or ‘many short-term (marital) relationships’, but he scores highly on the rest!
You’re probably right. Chaos would bring a situation more akin to the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror. Littlefinger would be a Robespierre type if he ever gained power. The world isn’t ready for the chaos. I guess the good news for the realm is that eventually they’ll have to unite because winter and white walkers are coming.
The realm isn’t ready for chaos, but between the fiery dragons and the icy White Walkers it’s coming in a way that even Littlefinger isn’t prepared to exploit.
As for the realm uniting, I can only quote Theon’s captor: “if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”
I agree entirely, but when ultimately faced with an existential threat from the white walkers, they will be forced to unite. Once the threat is gone, they’ll go back to fighting.
Littlefinger at least sees that Chaos is coming and must come. The whole political situation of the realm has to collapse. Littlefinger sure isn’t prepared to exploit it though. No one is and no one can.
If I’m a partisan of anyone it would be Mance. He at least represents new modes and orders. I don’t expect him to win the game of thrones though, or any form of a happy ending from this story.
The problem is that there are different games going on at different levels. The kind of chaos Littlefinger is thinking of involves civil wars and palace intrigues, not magic and the supernatural. Those are things of the past in their minds, which is why The Wall and the Black Brotherhood have been left to rot and why everyone in King’s Landing (except Varys) still sees Dany as a powerless little girl who can be taken out by an assassin.
Once they finally got the news, even sophisticated players like Tywin and Olenna would see an invasion of Mance’s Wildlings and the undead things that are chasing them as “the North’s problem” — something to be exploited while they make preparations south of The Neck. Similarly, Robb and his bunch might see Dany’s invasion force as “the South’s problem.” Faced with two dire existential threats, I don’t really see this bunch suddenly coming together even temporarily to save the entire realm.
I could be wrong, though. Strange alliances spring up all the time, if not between the great houses than between smaller factions and individuals. We’ll have to wait and see.
“You’re probably right. Chaos would bring a situation more akin to the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.”
This! The power vacuum would be a nightmare. The various lords and bannermen jump ship like rats on Red Bull! It’s maddening to watch them switch sides so much.
I think Varys is more maintaining order for the time being. He’s interested in change, but he’s ultimately waiting for the return of Targaryen rule, which WILL cause a lot of chaos on its own, but also, hopefully, change for the better for the realm.
By the way, I don’t understand why Littlefinger didn’t take Sansa with him in the end – she would have been happy to go with him, it seems like. Was it too big of a risk to incur the wrath of the Lannisters? And wasn’t that risk already there when he originally planned to leave with Sansa?
When he was originally planning to leave with Sansa, she hadn’t yet been put back into play as a pawn by either the Tyrells or the Lannisters. Once she was, he had to leave her behind.
Probably for the best, given the nasty fate of the young noble girl who he “rescues” in one of the earlier books.
Ah, thanks. And my apologies to Leigh – it seems your “you’re not going anywhere, anyway” interpretation was spot on, after all.
Many departures from the books in this episode…,more scenes heavily changed than not, presumably to consolidate characters.
I hope they haven’t gypped poor Sam out of earning his nickname, or else just delayed it.
Another metaphor for you…what’s the difference between a pin and a necklace?
And Ros….never existed, and now dead. Voted off the island?
Since he pulled it out, it has become a definite Checkov’s gun, don’t worry. Before this episode, though, yeah I was worried too.
Chekov’s dragonglass dagger? cool.
One major difference is simple TV economics. You can’t just abandon an actor for two or three years and expect to have him under contract. So instead of risking the loss of Theon Greyjoy, we’ve got him hanging around in a dungeon.
Using that logic, perhaps Osha has been kept around for a return in the currently unreleased book, since she’s MIA soon after that group’s departure from Winterfell. They’ve downgraded the Reed/Bran interactions from the book IMO. She’s not interesting enough to keep around otherwise.
I’m a traditionalist at heart, so I personally dislike the departures. There is certainly no shortage of content that would incite them to invent characters and scenes. I’m getting the impression that they are making more and more changes simply ‘because they can’ and not to improve the story. Rearranging deck chairs, so to speak.
I write this having recently seen Peter Jackson violate poor Bilbo Baggins in the same manner Lucas/Spielberg did Indiana Jones in a certain South Park episode.
I can only guess GRRM was paid quite a lot for this. Personally, I would have kept my content on a tighter leash.
I don’t know that you can point to another book-film or TV adaptation that has stayed as close as this one has. Personally I am amazed that it is as close as it is. Look at the mess of The Walking Dead for one contemporary example.
Fair enough. Sad statement for screenwriting as a whole though.
“I don’t know that you can point to another book-film or TV adaptation that has stayed as close as this one has.”
Brideshead Revisited (the 1980s TV series)
I have a love/hate relationship with the books, and a rather better one with the show. By and large all the departures I’ve seen in the show have been improvements. It’s a good thing that TV contractual obligations override having characters vanish for several volumes at a time, or indefinitely, in the middle of a crisis. This is the greatest flaw of GRRM’s writing by far; that he seems to make choices as if keeping the interest of the audience is beneath him (and there are legions of fanboys all too ready to play into that idea with their views of his infallibility). To me, it just means that his ability to create characters and a world far outstrips his ability to edit and pace himself. When I got to volumes 4 and 5, I started imagining my own 10-hour loop of Peter Dinklage slapping him.
Disclosure: I stopped reading after the beginning of book 5. I don’t know if I’ll bother to finish, or just wait for HBO.
Stopped reading?!?? If I sputtered any more at that sentence I’d be a turn of the century horseless carriage!
I know how you feel, but that’s the way of the world. People often do that shit and worse to me with LoTR — which is a very special thing and nevermind the ponderous pace because my daddy read it to me when I was just a little sprout. But that’s just to me and means nothing to the world in general.
Rather than actually flogging through book 5 for a month, just go to Amazon, where someone has posted a review which summarizes the book in one page. Or to save you the trouble, I can sum it up in two words – NOTHING HAPPENS.
I think has less to do with any particular author’s infallibility but more than his due for being the storyteller and this being his story. My personal vision is a roundtable of screen writers throwing in random personal ideas and bowing to perceived audience preferences and ratings.
ASOIAF isn’t the established property that LOTR is, but it still deserves respect as a work.
I’m half expecting Jar Jar Binks to show up in King’s Landing any episode now. Or perhaps some shield surfing.
Jar Jar Binks is George Lucas’ story, and probably deserves respect as a work. Luckily, I don’t care. Bring on the fan edits.
You mean “pink mast”?
hah! oh jeeeeez. “fat, pink mast”, wasn’t it?
haha, you’re right, yes
“I hope they haven’t gypped poor Sam”
Just a quick aside: “Gypped” is a derogatory and racist term eh. Please don’t use it.
I like your questions, Leigh. They always spark an excellent discussion, and the other commenters always draw my attention to something I missed.
Upward mobility is possible in the Westeros system, but the only way to get it is by being a killer (e.g. Mountain Clegane or Bronn) or a toady (e.g. Janos Slynt) or, in rare cases, an exceptionally gifted schemer (e.g. Varys). It’s a culture that rewards bullies, so this is to be expected.
More interesting is how little downward mobility there is, at least for the hereditary nobility of the realm. If they fall from grace due to war or betraying a liege, it’s swiftly downward to death (or torture or imprisonment leading to death), with no rest stops in between. But otherwise titled hostages are taken during war, titled children are fostered to prevent war, holdings are sacked, choices and pardons are offered. In all those cases, if you’re an hereditary noble you’re treated as an equal. There’s no slavery, no reduction to commoner status, only death and the end of your house’s line.
I couldn’t even begin to draw up a straightforward score sheet on all the factions. It’s looking bad for the Starks, but it’s been looking that way ever since Robert Baratheon showed up at Winterfell. I reckon the Tyrells have now established themselves as equal partners with the Lannisters in their enterprise. Stannis is temporarily down for the count, and the Greyjoys have their own problems. Dany’s on the upswing with her Unsullied army. Those are only the major factions.
I’m more interested in the fates of the individual characters. Reading the books, I’m aching more and more for a reunion of any kind between the lost Stark children. I don’t think George RR Martin is going to give Catelyn her desired reunion — she’s appearing more and more to be a locus of a lot of unnecessary strife and grief — but I hold out some probably forlorn hope that Bran and his party will get to The Wall or otherwise meet up with Jon Snow.
The departures from the books have been appropriate so far and keep viewer confusion to a minimum and the plot pacing nice and tight. Producing and viewing a TV series are very different efforts from writing and reading a series of novels, and the amazing thing for me is how true they’ve stayed to the books despite the strictures of the medium. Over time I’m sure the divergences will increase, but for the moment I’ve seen no disappointing betrayals as I follow a few chapters behind in the books.
No downward mobility? Tell that to House Reyne of Castamere…
Loved the Mel-meeting-Thoros scene, which cements in my mind once and for all that I don’t personally need to see the books faithfully recreated, which is quite a load off, actually.
Thought this episode was great (hell, I think ALL of them are).
Re: the upward mobility question – it’s quite obviously possible, especially w/r/t Littlefinger, but for how long? One gets the sense that his scheming will catch up with him in a very brutal fashion.
Tywin continues to be my favourite character, but am squeeing at my namesake’s added and, one might assume forthcoming screentime.
Of all the book storylines, though, it is Bran’s that interests me the most, and I find myself hoping from week to week that they will give that aspect of the show a bit more time. Ah well, can’t have it all.
Bran’s is probably the hardest to translate though I can see why they have not done much with him. I am most worried about the more minor roles the wolves are playing. Again I understand the budget, but maybe a bit more of the warg stuff could be shown. They were able to do it for the awful Beastmaster TV show.
You’re right, they’ve downplayed the worg aspect quite a bit. I guess they’re hoping viewers will remember the limited screentime that that portion of the story has had, whereas us book readers have been beaten over the head with it.
Yeah, I have read in several places that the giant beautiful wolves are how I should get my lady friends to watch the show, but the Dires are little more than background, and several of them seem to have vanished and never reappeared.
It’s particularly unfortunate in the sense that the direwolves sort of operate on the level of a metaphor their fate as Starks, and their obligations to their past.
To see Jon amongst the wildlings and climbing the wall with no hint of what ever happened to Ghost manages to have left out something valuable. To me this is maybe the thing i most miss out of the shows. It’s by no means a huge problem, but I do miss that.
I haven’t watched the show at all, and am only going on the books, but one thing that drove me nuts for quite a while about the story was that it starts out with what seems like an obvious structuring device — the seven dire wolf cubs for the seven children of Eddard Stark. But that falls apart within a few chapters.
I kind of disagree that it falls apart. The wolves each represent the wild spirit of each stark child — the Ghost that roams the north, Nymeria lost in the wild, Shaggydog without any guidance or discipline, Grey Wind [etc] and Lady, well. RIP Sansa’s Northern spirit.
!!!
The Melisandre-Thoros sequence was my favourite of the episode, too (that’s saying a lot, since I kept exclaiming “this is awesome” out loud during the climb up The Wall). It’s the centrepiece of an episode whose theme, from what I can see, is the power of honesty.
What they seem to be exploring is that it’s only through honesty that we connect with the big things, the earth-shakers. They may be good things or bad things, personal or political, but they’re big in their own ways — the stuff you can only really appreciate from a view 700 feet up.
Almost every sequence in the episode involves people being honest and open with each-other (except for poor Sansa, in her contrasting scenes with Loris and then Tyrion that are used to illustrate the point). For example:
* Ygritte is honest with Jon Snow: she admits she knows he’s still loyal to the Watch, and even if it means she’s a traitor to all she’s known she won’t be telling anyone because this is about their being a couple. That’s a big thing to lay on him, and it pays off after that harrowing climb.
* Olenna and Tywin are honest with each-other: “we both know we’re crafty and powerful and manipulative, but we’re old and life is short so let’s just get down to brass tacks and make things happen, shall we?” I love it when the real players make no bones about who they are and what they’re out for. It speeds things along nicely.
* Littlefinger is honest with Varys: the latter’s precious realm, as far as Baelish is concerned, is a sham. Being a sociopath, what he treasures most is chaos and the power it can bring him.
* Roose Bolton is honest with Jaime, at least after he feeds him almost enough rope to hang himself. Again. Jaime is almost as stubborn as Sansa in his refusal to give up on his sense of self-regard and entitlement, but finally Bolton makes it clear to him that there are some people you don’t bloody mess with, and uses his plans for Brienne (who probably understood this when they gave her a dress to wear for dinner) to drive the point home.
But back to Throros of Myr, whose speech I found very poignant. Here’s a guy who’s spent years faking it in regard to his priestly service the Lord of Light, only to find a real and direct connection to Rhy’llor in a moment of genuine honesty about his love for his friend Beric. His connection only deepens with the honesty, which got his friend resurrected 5 more times since.
That speech also gives rise to Beric laying a little Big Honesty on the normally unflappable Melisandre: there’s nothing on “the other side,” just darkness. My take is that she’s startled to realise that darkness isn’t just a useful shadow cast by the Lord of Light for her purposes, but rather the mark of His absence.
These writers know their stuff, and they use the episodic nature of TV to draw out themes that Martin can’t in the books’ epic sweep.
Excellent analysis.
One other thing that struck me from Thoros’ speech re: how his prayers never used to work….it’s simply because magic is back in the world that they are now working so admirably. These people believe it’s the power of gods, but nope!
Agree on the great analysis from gracchus, and your points about show-book divergence. Like the warging, the slow leak of more magic into the world hasn’t been as clearly emphasized in the show, but I think it is there enough to give the general idea
That’s a great point. I haven’t had any indication from the books that gods aren’t responsible for all these supernatural and miraculous happeneings, but neither have I seen any real indication that they are responsible. Now I have something new to keep an eye out for in the books.
Good point. It ties nicely with the Danaerys storyline.
You know, I keep saying that I think the God with Many Faces has been combined with R’hllor in the show but that moment describing death as nothing but darkness makes me really wonder.
No, I think the Many-Faced God will become relevant when she gets there, if you know what I mean. Prob would just seem confusing if it were revealed now.
I did some digging and encountered a detail that makes me feel like a prize ass; I forgot about the Great Other in the Lord of Light religion. Death totally has a character in that religion, even if it is the bad side. It could easily be written in at a later point and see make sense as well as jive with the books.
I agree, the Mel-Thoros meeting worked really well. It is important for her to learn about the Red God’s powers of resurrection, after all.
Wishful thinking, but if you are right it makes you wonder how much of book 6/future developments Martin has shared with the writers.
I have a particular theory on this. I hope that I am right.
I think everyone has that theory. :)
Actually 4 weddings, forgot Cersi/Loras. Great misdirection for non-book readers who may have been mildly spoiled about eventful nuptials in this book/season.
Actually 5 weddings. Aren’t we to assume at this point that Littlefinger is going off to cement an alliance with Lysa Arryn by marrying her, given what he and Varys were talking about in the throne room?
Well, he’s going to go off and *try* to do that…. there’s no indication she’s so much aware of his intent, much less agreed to it.
Good point.
Didn’t Tywin mention that Lysa’s always been in love with Paetyr, though?
Yes, but the implication (as i see it) is that that’s information he only got from Petyr’s boasting about it.
So he was sneering at him… like “Hey, what’s been up with your super-hot girlfriend in Canada?”
Yeah, he brags about how he took both Cat and Lysa’s virginity, there is clearly a lot of bragging when he talks about the Tully sisters, at this point we are given no evidence to believe that Lysa is actually going to say yes
Great, thanks for clearing that up.
http://vecnamaxinfo.ucoz.ru/
So far, the show’s departure from the books has either been a non-factor or even preferable to the books. Most of the time they seem more like detours rather than separate roads. And once the show reaches Books 4 & 5, I hope they do a lot more adapting.
Am I going crazy, or did Petyr Baelish get the Dark Knight treatment this season with his gravelly voice? It’s become really grating.
He’s had it all along, no? I’m not a fan of it, regardless.
Seems that way. It’s even harder to accept when you know him Aiden Gillen best as Tommy Carcetti.
I am all in for Aidan Gillen to play Satan.
Reading other articles, it is remarkable that most book readers have not caught on that the God with Many Faces has been streamlined out. The readers keep making an issue of how they will integrate that religion into future scenarios; I do not think that we will ever see that religion on the show, it seems to have folded into The Lord of Light.
Baelish’s speech is definitely one of the best of the show. Correct me but I believe that the speech is original to the show, I don’t remember it in the books.
I am afraid Varamyr Sixskins is not going to appear in the show. It looks like we just have to content ourselves with Orell. It makes sense with the patterns of streamlining the show utilizes. I just really wanted to see that crazy warg though. Probably budget limitations.
Man, I really was hoping that Ros would scope out more about why the girls didn’t charge Pod. I wanted that to be a mystery and not some cute stuff. Did anyone else immediately flash to St. Sebastian when they revealed Ros?
I suppose we have to be cagey about who Theon’s captor is at this point, it would called into question other prominent character’s allegiances.
Damn, I’d forgotten about Varamyr, and have totally been mixing him up with Orell the entire time.
Pretty sure we’ve discussed who Theon’s captor is in past threads. The clues are there for those who are paying attention, even if they aren’t book readers (of course, I say that knowing full well in advance who he is)….
At the point I’m at in the books, Theon has disappeared completely from the narrative. Even so, I’ll agree that there’s a big clue that marks the spot regarding the house allegiance of Theon’s tormentor.
Yes, it should be fairly obvious, but nobody I watch it with has any idea what is going on with Theon.
Same here. Haven’t started ADWD yet, so his return in the series this early threw me.
But we were made aware of where he (at least likely) ended up in the books before ADWD, no? Or were we supposed to have assumed he had died? Sorry, it’s been a while since I read ACOK or ASOS.
The only mention of him at all after the sack of Winterfell is a report given to Robb at Riverrrun delivered with the ‘trophy’ that was collected on this week’s TV episode.
He’s given up for dead in the goings on in the Iron Islands.
Ah yes, that “piece of prince”.
I have not yet given up on the God of Many Faces making an appearance. I posted elsewhere that in my view, Jaqen’s debt to “the red god” which he paid to Arya was more an acknowledgment that he owed that god for being saved from death by fire (R’hllor’s preferred method of sacrifice), not that he was a follower of R’hllor himself, And this seems consistent with the God of Many Faces, at least to me. I think (hope) we will get more when/if we get to Bravos.
Yes to the St. Sebastian point. the whole gruesome tableaux was so artfully arranged. ugh.
I’m not sure how you figure it’s been cut when we’ve not really reached that point in the story.
I figure this because of the alteration to Jaqen’s religious affiliation. He is a faceless man and in the books worshipped The God with Many Faces. In the show he came out for The Lord of Light.
Now, it is true there is more coming for Arya with religion, but I have a feeling based on the aforementioned as well as her encounter with Melisandre that the writers intend to fold the two religions together. We will see and obviously I am only spit-balling here. I would be surprised if they waste their set-up here and make it a separate religion later.
I don’t remember that. He did mention the Lord of Light when talking about dying in a fire, but given the nature of The God of Many Faces I didn’t take that to mean much.
did he mention lord of light or “the red god”? maybe they are the same, but i assumed it was another. haven’t gotten far enough along in the books to read about the many-faced god yet
Don’t give up on the seven yet, what was Sam singing to Gilly…
“the seven” aka “new gods” are prominent in both books and show. “many-faced god” is another religion entirely
Many of the “added scenes” have given us some welcome insights into the various players, and I see them as enhancing the book. Varys’ “vengeance in a box” being a good example, and keeping Theon in the story is another. He never says “my real father died in King’s Landing” in the books (I don’t think), but it is entirely consistent with his arc for him to say so.
And yes, I am glad to see more of Roose Bolton, leeching the warmth from the room in every scene.
I see what you did there, don’t think I didn’t, ohhhhhh no.
It’s pretty hard to do this “scoresheet” thing while ignoring what’s going to happen soon, but I’ll try.
#1, The Tyrells – rich holdings, the capital’s at their mercy when it comes to food, their army hasn’t sustained many casualties while still being used to maximum effect for political gains, not crippled by family disfunctionality or illoyalty, and Margaery’s the most popular queen on this side of the narrow sea. No obvious disadvantages except their lingering conflict with Dorne.
#2, The Lannisters – very wealthy, have a large but at this point badly battered army, one of theirs sits on the Iron Throne though they can’t admit it, have been involved in capital politics and intrigues for a long time, capably led. Disadvantages: they can’t stand each other and Geoffrey and Cersei have done their very best to ensure that the rest of the realm thinks the same, they’re still bearing the brunt of the war without much hope for respite.
#3, Danaerys – a born leader and a fast learner to boot, she’s got motherfucking dragons and a steadily growing army, inspires genuine loyalty in her followers, has a solid claim even though people don’t have the fondest memories of the Tagaryens. Disadvantages: she’s still half the world away without a fleet, she’s got little intel on what’s going on in Westeros, and she can’t rely on the feudal structures which the other houses employ to get poor bastards to die for their ambitions.
#4, The Starks – successful in the field, currently hold very desirable strategic territory, have cool direwolves. Disadvantages: their retreat and supply lines have been cut off, their diplomacy is an absolute desaster and they’re plagued by disloyalty, most of their family is scattered or captured.
#5, Stannis – has a near-monopoly on fearsome magic in this world, a major religion at his back, and an impenetrable fortress island. Disadvantages: has lost most of his army and fleet, may be ill-advised to rely exclusively on Melisandre.
#6, The Greyjoys – have succeeded in their initial blow against the North, even though it’ll be hard to actually hold this territory with their manpower, enjoy naval superiority. Disadvantages: they don’t have much of an army to fight organized opposition on the continent, and I’ll be damned if I can figure out what they actually hope to achieve in this war.
#7, Littlefinger – smart and utterly unscrupulous, wealthy, well-connected in the capital and maybe throughout the realm. Disadvantages: still not in a position where he can command significant military capabilities, and you don’t win a throne by intrigue alone.
I would add as a major disadvantage for Daenerys: she has no solid plan to FEED her large army.
She effectively has control of Astapor after having the unsullied kill the slavers. The unsullied were the only real military force behind the slaver/rulers. It was not clear in the show, but in the books she does have them kill all the slavers in the entire city. This frees the large portion of the population who were slaves. Once she starts to move the army, yes, food may be an issue, but not right now.
I would say this is part of the reason we are seeing Yunkai on the title screen maps. She is marching there. Cities have food stocks.
Sure, and turning up there with a huge hungry army is going to make her super-popular! Dany has no lands, and no source of income, save what she pillages. Which is hard, cause she’s, y’know, NICE. So, what’s she gonna do? Hope they’re all nasty slaver men who call her a slut, so she doesn’t feel bad about it?
Considering all these cities lie on a body of water called “Slaver Bay”, I’m’a go with… yup!
Yeah… I guess I’m just really hoping Dany’s whole White Savior arc comes back to bite her in the ass, since while she’s freeing people, she’s also trashing their cities, then buggering off without stopping to pick up the social infrastructure.
I am slightly reluctant to call someone raising an army to invade and conquer a s country “nice”.
So far as I can tell, the entire motivation for house Greyjoy is “kill people and take their things!” They’re the D&D party of Westeros.
Sometimes I get confused about economics in the Iron Islands. You can’t pay the iron price for everything! Say you pay the iron price to the local cobbler, now how the hell does everyone else get shoes? Guess you have to go reaving and raping in Seagard if you want some new kicks. Being a small business owner in the Iron Islands must be rough.
I think the “iron price” only applies to bling and fineries. I don’t recall the books going into much detail other than that.
You. Are. Ruining. This. For. Me.
Haha. Yeah man, imagine paying the iron price for a loaf of bread. Bam. Everybody starves.
I think they literally take everything they need from the cities and ships along the coast, like SuperVikings, and then fish for everything else. You don’t make your house works ‘We Do Not Sow’ if you don’t intend to live up to them. :D
Don’t forget Varys – he is also smart and has a vast network of spies (little birds) across Westeros and Essos. He seems to play the game by encouraging others to make moves that benefit him (or his end goals, whatever they may be). Similarly to Littlefinger, he does not command military capabilities as far as we know.
True, that omission was almost a spoiler in itself. It’s amazing how much your perspective on a character and his motivations can change in just a few pages. That’s also a major strength of Martin’s writing, IMHO – you don’t just experience a sense of shifting power due to actual events, but also because you gain more insight into what makes everybody tick. In the first novel, I thought the Lannisters were brilliant puppeteers methodically enacting a master plan to seize power. Then in the next one, you find out they’re not an organized faction at all, just a bunch of deeply troubled individuals trying to strike a balance between clan politics and their personal desires.
I somewhat agree. Although his mention of green and gold during his discussion with Sansa was nice in that those were Renly’s colors. The scene with Littlefinger’s male whore should be completely out of character given book Loras remained devoted to Renly.
Never picked up on the green and gold/Renly connection – nice!
That’s a sweet touch, and I missed it completely. I wish they’d made that a bit more explicit, because it just came off as “lol, gayboy likes fashion”, which, *sigh*.
great point about the green and gold, I missed that as well! My adoration of the show’s costumers extends to the costumes described as well as the costumes worn! Your larger point I agree with entirely.
This is my favorite weekly blog on Game of Thrones – thank you Leigh! Please keep up the good work. I have enjoyed most of the departures from the books so far, especially Melisandre’s meeting with Thoros and the fleshing out of certain characters who are not POV characters in the books (Margaery, Loras, Robb). I love the way they are keeping viewers in the dark over who Theon’s captor is, although this week there was a very big clue. It’s even in one of the screenshots above. As this show moves onto Book 4 I hope there will be more departures from the books, as that is where I think the series took some bad turns.
I watched the previous episode again just before this one came on. I just noticed that the scene with Shireen faded out to Patchface’s song. Very nice touch.
Mostly a nice touch because we don’t have to see or hear Patchface sing it.
I have read the books, and the characters that I’m most invested in are Arya and Daenerys’ (No spoilers)–I suspect that the show is going to advance both characters’ story lines somewhat. It’s hard to avoid spoiling things for non-book readers. I feel sorry for the folks that are likely to get spoiled before the end of this season. My advice: read the books! There’s still time!
I find it a little odd that Theon is unable to guess the identity of his captors when he is literally being their sigil.
The changes I am most disappointed in are the lack of the following repeated pieces of dialogue “Ghost, to me” and “You know nothing Jon Snow”. ;)
Joking aside, I appreciate and understand the changes in terms of narrative compression, budgets and continuity (aren’t we technically peeking a couple of books ahead when we see Theon and his ‘torturer’)
My biggest gripe this season though is that Stannis isn’t being very Stannis like, he’s a hard character to like I admit, but he’s unwavering to the point of fanaticism, he just seems a bit cock blocked right now.
When is Yara coming back? It needs to happen soon!
Love the casting of Iwan Rheon in this: he was fantastic in Misfits as self-conscious-eventually-growing-into-power Simon, and it’s great to see him as a villain.
And, ugh, ya, I could go for a wedding or four. After Ros’ grisly death, and what happened to Theon’s finger, I could use a more upbeat, less death-y, episode!
When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.
I gather I’m in terrible danger of losing my geek card, since I haven’t watched Game of Thrones at all, though I’ve read the first four books and am about to start on the fifth.
I’m wondering if this is something I can watch with my family (the youngest is 11), or if I should just watch it by myself. I’m assuming that a lot of things must be toned down from the books for it to be possible to broadcast the show at all, but how far does that go?
Not appropriate for an 11 yrs old. The violence is graphic, the concepts adult. Not fussed about the sex, but the violence is brutal.
Frankly, I’m careful in which adults I recommend it to. It might be the best drama on TV, but the only concessions to “toning it down” are that the child characters are aged up considerably. If Emilia Clarke (Dany) actually looked like a 12 year old girl when Drogo was raping her it would be horrific. Apparently the end of season one was the first time on television that one child actor had killed another. NOT a family show.
Also, it’s not just that it’s very violent and that there’s nudity and sex, but that it’s seldom the kind of sex and nudity you want to explain to kids or necessarily have them watching. The ratio of sex between two adults that love each other versus rape, sex for money, incest, and sex for power is definitely skewed heavily toward that dark side. Even if you’re okay with bare breasts, even if you’re pretty laid back about sex, it’s almost entirely not positive sex. And that could get uncomfortable real fast in mixed company. I’m in my 30s and wouldn’t want to watch it with my Dad. I didn’t let my 15 year old brother watch it when he was visiting at my house.
And in general, I’m not sure the youngest one would enjoy it. There might be a few parts they’d get and dig. But overall, the parts about it that make it worthwhile enough that you’d want to share it with them, they’re not old enough to “get” anyhow. It’s not one that’s so full of action that you could enjoy the political intrigue and character details and the kids could just tune out on that part and enjoy armies stabbing each other and princesses kissing princes and dragons breathing fire. The bulk of the show is the other part, the grown-up thinking part. I think an 11 year old would probably be bored by it. And if they didn’t the explaining things through the whole thing would get old in a hurry. I think it’d be a lot more fun to watch it by yourself (or optimally with another grown-up you can discuss it with and share the experience with).
Even though I hated what happened to Ros, I kind of liked this episode because of Varys’ reaction to her death. I feel like he was expressing genuine loathing for Littlefinger and his machinations. I imagined it also made him further angry at Littlefinger because the latter made Varys a liar– Varys told Ros he’d look after her after Joffrey’s ‘birthday present.’ Ros was already in a dangerous line of work– I think Theon in the 1st season points out that ‘the first time she laughs at a lord’ she’d get beaten or killed–, one made more so by her involvement in politics, but it still PISSED. ME. OFF. to know that Littlefinger had given her to Joffrey like that just to get back at Varys over something. I felt like this action on Littlefinger’s part and Vary’s reaction to it made trenchant each character’s motivations, even more so than Littlefinger’s speech about chaos. She will be missed, I loved Ros! *pours a forty of Dornish Sour Red*
she was a “poor investment”. definitely punishing her as well
One of my disappointments is that the Hound, whom seems to be one of the few honorable characters around, and Arya don’t join forces. He saved her sister, she needs help reaching her family, her boyfriend has been taking by the Red Witch. match made in heaven really.
That would be pretty cool.
” Jaime notes Roose’s refusal to drink alcohol is “suspicious to ordinary
people.” Nice emblem of the fundamental coldness of House Bolton”
i took it to mean some might think it poisoned. but perhaps there was more nuance to it than that.
“You guys are my favorite commenters on the whole internet”.
you forgot handsome and humble as well.
The actor who plays Theon’s tormentor is Iwan Rheon, who was also in Misfits. IMDB gives his character name as Ramsay Snow
I think he’s referring to Arya killing the stable boy when she’s escaping the Red Keep.
Two of my pals that I watch with think that Margaery killed Ros with Joffrey to fulfill his fantasies. Is this absurd!? I don’t really “like” Margeary but I don’t think she has it in her to shoot someone full of crossbow bolts. Did anyone else get that impression?