TED2009: Make Love not Porn

Just announced at TED2009: a new website, Make Love not Porn. Cindy Gallop announced the website, and she said she created it because she has sex with younger men and they learned about sex from watching hardcore porno Make Love Not Porn

• [Anonymous]

  P.S.: The whole, “you’re already shaving your legs and underarms!” argument is especially silly, as not all of us do that either.

• [mdh]

  In the real world men have small penises and the actual act usually only lasts a few minutes.

  Make the most of those minutes.

• [Nelson.C]

  You can like completely shaven partners if that’s what you like. But please, don’t take it as given that it is superior for your partner to be shaved, or even normal (in a strict statistical sense).

  And I will do the same favour for you. You like what you like, I like what I like, and for me at least, there aren’t insurmountable barriers between the two. We don’t have to get into an argument about it.

• [Aloisius]

  @Gloria – Of course. Which is why I said licking for teasing purposes. Around the labia majora, inner thighs… well.. pretty much anywhere but the clitoris. You know. Early on when things are sensitive. I mean, no one goes straight for the clitoris do they?

• [signalnine]

  Cougar Finds Changing Sexual Mores Strange. Film at 11.

• [Anonymous]

  There is hair down there to hold in scents that send sexual signals to potential partners. The more people shave and cover stuff up with perfumes and do crazy porny things like anal bleaching (for crying out loud, bleaching?), the more we screw ourselves up.

• [robulus]

  Ummmm. I have this friend, and, ah, he was kind of aroused by this thread. Am I, I mean, is my friend, errr, is that wrong?

• [Redmond Cooper]

  @55

  This is just coming from a guy who shaves his bits. Maybe having an inny instead of an outy makes it significantly more complicated but I don’t spend that much more time shaving my pubes and danglies than I do shaving my face.
  Sure the first time I shaved down under was bad, but so was the first time I shaved my face. Once you get a lay of the land you can do it lickety-split. At least that’s my experience

• [Redmond Cooper]

  oh also completely agree with #20
  the website was complete rubbish

• [Anonymous]

  Yeah…Is her website worksafe? I’m usually skeptical of named websites, particularly female named websites. I mean, I could understand “StacyKablonovich.com” not being porn but “CindyGallop.com” sounds suspicious. Excuse me for being a paranoid dork, but given the current economic climate I’d rather not give anyone a reason to axe me. (of course then maybe I should stop reading BB at work..j/k)

• [nutbastard]

  @ #67

  while a cock and ball shaver too, i’m in the camp that refuses to shave beard, mustache, chest, arm, leg and armpit hair.

  gotta be manly SOMEWHERE : )

• [Takuan]

  not at all. You should tell your friend that any thread that I comment in is naturally arousing.

• [technogeek]

  More needed: A guide for people who learned to drive by playing arcade games.

• [dderidex]

  #44 “The whole, “you’re already shaving your legs and underarms!” argument is especially silly, as not all of us do that either. “

  Indeed, I left that as an unstated assumption, as my blurbs were already going far too long. You’ll note I also comment on makeup and such, too – obviously, not everyone DOES do all these things. Rather, I was deriving an argument by an examination of ‘present social norms’ rather than attempting to be 100% all-inclusive. Clearly, that would add an ENORMOUS number of variables, and significantly cloud the discussion.

  I should have noted that. However, observe how long this caveat has become! So…left it out originally. My bad for any confusion on that point.

• [Enochrewt]

  Bless you Ms. Cougar, Bless you.

• [Brainspore]

  Out of curiosity I did a quick web search on this uninhibited woman who enjoys teaching younger men how to have sex and noticed she has a penchant for skimpy outfits, black leather, and shirtless, muscled men bearing cake.

  Thank goodness we have people like this to dispel the stereotypes of porn.

• [robulus]

  Ahh yes. Yes that must have been what he meant.

• [Banksynergy]

  MDH – Amen to that. I’d have been saved a lot of hassle if someone had told me that 6 years ago.

• [Banksynergy]

  Oh – looks like the site got Boinged.

• [Anonymous]

  I love hairy women!!

  Please just be comfortable in yourself, that’s all that anyone should really want, anyone wanting more is not worth your time

• [Daemon]

  I think you killed her site – there’s no signs of life at the end of those links.

• [StRevAlex]

  What a bunch of silliness. Anyone who has illusions about reality vs. porn is either very young or very ignorant or both.

• [The Lizardman]

  Couldn’t we just solve this problem by having young women learn about sex from hardcore porno as well?

  Not that I don’t see her point but it seems like her personal tastes might be getting over-generalized, but the site won’t come up right now so I can’t really tell.

• [Anonymous]

  Oh my god…Lux Interior is dead?! (@ #24)

  I mean…it’s not like I imagined he’d live long, but…that is the worst news I have heard in ages.

  I’m depressed :(

• [Lauren O]

  It looks like the site is down from BB traffic, but I look forward to reading it when it’s back up. At the risk of TMI, I had way too much teenage sex that followed a porno script because dudes didn’t know anything else. It was both dumb and stupid.

• [Anonymous]

  uh…in my depression, I got the number to whom I was speaking incorrect in my previous post. I was speaking to #34.

• [Brainspore]

  At the risk of TMI, I had way too much teenage sex that followed a porno script…

  So these guys were all pool cleaners and delivery boys?

• [Gloria]

  @76: Forgive me, but let’s say I meant to include the area around the clitoris as well. Bare as I recall it.

  My inner thighs are pretty hair free too. Well, there’s some very, very fine down, but certainly no hairs that will choke you.

  Oh, sure, they go straight for it. Sometimes I demand it.

• [Anonymous]

  #38 dderidex:

  >I really wish someone could explain this.

  Some women choose to shave their arms and legs for already established social norms. When wearing small dresses that show off armpits and legs, these areas are visable and up for public scrutiny by other men and women.

  Your privates are just that. Private. And up to you to decide how they are going to appear to your lover.

  As a man who shaves his face and head every few days, I just would not have enough time or hot water to do any other areas… much less my legs and arm pits.

• [Telecustard]

  Real versus (insert media genre here) is an interesting subject. The visual forms of media may be depicting things that are not real, but young people pick up on things and imitate them. In the past youngsters had adults to emulate, but increasingly there are visual recordings or games to emulate instead.

  So, you could draw comparisons with the young police officers of today who have mannerisms and behavior influenced by the cop shows they watched as kids, or the soldiers fighting in Iraq who were influenced by “Full Metal Jacket”, or first person shooters.

  Perhaps we should be realizing that what you put into a movie might not be real, but it will definitely become reality if enough people are influenced by it.

• [Enormo]

  Who’s going to make a site for girls who watch porno?

  Porn World: Men have no hair on their buttholes

  Real World: Men usually don’t even bother to wipe.

• [Anonymous]

  #38 dderidex:

  >I really wish someone could explain this.

  Apart from the considerable time it takes, there is a very real difference in sensitivity. I can shave my legs in practically no time (yeah, a relatively large area), with very little nicking or irritation resulting.
  But the skin and hair are both very different in the underarm and groin area. I actually can’t shave my arms without serious razor burn most of the time. I’ve had to begin using an epilator.. nice because it takes the hair longer to grown back and isn’t as stubbly when it does, but can really chew up your skin if you’re not careful, and takes quite a bit longer than shaving.

  Same is true for the groin area… I’ve only ever tried bikini line, but shaving was horrific. Razor burn, blunt ends, ingrown hairs are all the nasty results.
  A epilator is better, but is still a major pain, especially in that region. Not just in terms of actual sensation (which can be awful), but you also have to actually put skin in tension for it to work correctly–or else you’re just pulling on skin and breaking hairs instead of actually tweezing them. Which leads to more skin irritation.
  Who wants to itch and burn for even a day or 2 everytime they clean up?

  Luckily for me all my guy seems to care for is a good trim )

• [Anonymous]

  Kudos to DDERIDEX for getting some women to explain what the deal is!

  (For those not following the thread, he said “why do you shave everywhere else but jump salty when shaving pubes is suggested?” and some ladies replied “because hair and skin sensitivity is different in different places and the hair in that particular sensitive place is coarse and fast-growing”).

  Applying a little inductive reasoning, this also explains all variations in people’s shaving patterns – we have different hair and different levels of and responses to pain.

  Thanks man. I’ve been wondering for DECADES.

• [Anonymous]

  The Lizardman wrote: Couldn’t we just solve this problem by having young women learn about sex from hardcore porno as well?

  So we’d put up with about 2 minutes of oral sex that’s supposed to have us screaming, then have to perform 10 minutes worth on the guy, then have him penetrate us in a variety of really uncomfortable positions, and magically have multiple orgasms every time?

  Oh – and the expectation would be that every guy would be hung like a horse – and know how to use it to have the woman enjoy the sex rather than be stretched, abraded or torn.

  Alas, it’s not like that.

  Also, if you really want all women to shave down there, experience it yourself – the pain of the Brazillian or the fiddlyness of the razor. nd then having to keep it that way.

• [dderidex]

  You know, this conversation I’ve had before (RE: the specific comment noted in the BB posting). And a solid and logical explanation from the ladies WOULD be welcome.

  - You shave your legs, because hairy legs are ‘gross’
  - You shave under your arms, because hairy underarms are weird
  - You trim/pluck/outright REMOVE your eyebrows, because bushy eyebrows would just be freakish
  - You trim AROUND ‘down there’ in order to fit cleanly in a bikini

  But, somehow, all that considered, a guy who thinks it would be a good idea to finish the project and shave the rest of the area is a weird, porn-obsessed, pervert.

  I mean, WTF? You go out of your way with a grooming ritual to completely remove hair everywhere ELSE on your body except your head? I’m so very confused…

  • [Antinous / Moderator]

    Isn’t groin grooming usually covered over at BB Gadgets?

• [s5]

  I will summarize the site for everyone:

  PORN
  Everyone does [X]

  REAL
  Some people do [X], and other people don’t. It depends!

  I’m glad that’s cleared up.

• [mikelotus]

  Uh MDH, I can last for more than a few minutes. Perhaps you don’t get enough practice?

  dderidex,right on. I hate getting pubes in my mouth, even before it became popular in porn. There is one exception, but that requires too much details. Don’t want to shave? Don’t expect me to provide oral pleasure.

• [nutbastard]

  It’s 50/50 on shaved men in the porn world, when im sure it’s more like 90% unshaved in the real world.

  Men and women alike, IRL, both enjoy being shaved and having a shaved partner. it’s just neater. no strays stuck between the teeth, no more outrageous shampoo bills.

  Note to women: yes we want you to shave or groom in some tidy way.

  Note to men: women want you shaved as much as you want them shaved. don’t be scared. you aren’t going to lose a nut over some overzealous mach three-ing.

  just uh, don’t shave UP unless you know what you’re doing or it’s going to look like you tried to fuck a bunch of poison oak.

  also, top of the butt crack, don’t forget that one, it’s easy to miss.

  don’t shave your browneyelashes unless you’re prepared to have your asshole itch for 2 days.

  learn from my mistakes!

• [Anonymous]

  Anon cuz this is totally TMI:

  I’m in a relationship with a girl who really likes porn. It was a bit weird at first, she is into way more hardcore stuff than I ever have been, like DP and all that.

  After we first started having sex she asked me to shave my pubes, including my ass. I thought it was a bit weird, but fucking like pornstars is pretty fun most of the time, and it’s not all multihour marathons of debauchery, we do actually “make love” sometimes.

  I was really scared the first few times I shaved but I got it down eventually. I don’t think it really adds much personally, I guess it does make sticking tongues in asses a lot easier, I know I won’t let her stick hers in mine if I haven’t recently shaved.

• [Mixolyde]

  I will save everyone the trouble of looking at the site by summing up every single piece of content:
  “thing they do in porn” -> “Some girls like it, and some don’t. Some guys like it, and some don’t.”

  That was 2 minutes of clicking I’m never getting back.

• [starfish and coffee]

  “… she said she created it because she has sex with younger men and they learned about sex from watching hardcore porno… ”

  Well, maybe she could just be grown up about it and stop having sex with people she doesn’t connect with?
  As a largely monogamous species wouldn’t it be easeier if each and everyone one of us settled for a partner they actually got on with in bed and left all those people one is not shagging to think and do as they please?

• [dderidex]

  #14 “Who’s going to make a site for girls who watch porno?”

  I believe the corollary for a site would be:
  “Date a real guy instead of a romance novel/soap opera character.”

  With such pointers as…

  Romance Novel World: Your man is always talking about you and thinking about you, and any action he takes that isn’t directly to make you happy is because he is replacing you with another woman.

  Real World: Your man is actually an individual human being, with his own thoughts and concerns, and while he DOES think about you…most the time he’s thinking about something else, and most actions he takes don’t really have anything to do with you…or anyone else, for that matter.

  —–

  Romance Novel World: Your man will always know just the right thing to say to lift your soul, buy you gifts that meet your wildest expectations, and never thinks ill of you.

  Real World: He’s human. You’re human. You are both going to make a lot of mistakes and piss each other off a LOT. How well your relationship does has more to do with how well you forgive, and how well you communicate over misunderstandings.

  etc

• [Banksynergy]

  #18 – What bull. Firstly, I find shaved men EXTREMELY un-sexy. Secondly, I refuse to believe that anywhere near the majority of women “enjoy being shaved”.

• [desiredusername]

  Porn isn’t real? I thought it was normal for men to be able to have keep an erection while having sex with a disinterested woman while people film you with a camera and then to successfully pull out in time to ejaculate like a squirt gun, and that it was just me having problems doing this.

• [chronophobe]

  That gallop site is obnoxious. Couldn’t make it past the flash intro and awful music that started blaring.

• [monopole]

  Learning everything from hardcore porn, terrible and disgusting!!! Thankfully, I learned everything in a proper way from watching and reading HENTAI!

• [randalll]

  I just want to chime in to say I am one of those dudes who prefers pubic hair.

  I think it might have something to do with your sexual awakening. If you first started getting aroused at movies (or magazines, pictures, etc) where you saw bush you’ll continue to be aroused by bush. If you started getting aroused by seeing porn you’ll probably end up a little averse to body hair.

  But I also think women with unshaven legs are attractive, so what do I know.

• [mdh]

  NutBastard Note to women: yes we want you to shave or groom in some tidy way.

  No. We want you to like yourself the way you are.

  That is sexy.

• [Anonymous]

  As a woman, I have to respond to dderidex’s question as to why women don’t shave their pubic region when they shave everything else. As a few other posters have said, it is COMPLETELY different shaving down there than anywhere else. My underarms and legs are a cinch to shave. (I do not shave my arms, I know very few women who do.) The underarm skin is more sensitive, but still very easy to shave because I can see it easily. The pubic region is extremely sensitive. The bikini line isn’t so bad, but the “under-carriage” is so sensitive, hard to see, and EASILY cut by a razor that I’m literally afraid whenever I actually attempt to shave there. After a few times doing it I’ve pretty much decided that it’s unnecessary for how troublesome and uncomfortable it is. Not to mention, I don’t think it looks good myself. It is too nubile looking and I just don’t think it looks sexy. Instead I keep it trimmed with scissors, which isn’t great fun, but I don’t mind doing it, and it’s equal to the grooming he has to do. My husband is fine with it trimmed. He doesn’t “get hair between his teeth” either. I imagine it would have to be fairly long to have that happen. It’s also worth mentioning that porn stars get waxed down there, which I can neither afford to do, nor am I interested.

  As far as hair on the male groin region, as a woman, I prefer it. I definitely appreciate a trim, but I think it is far less sexy when totally shaven off. I think it’s probably because it isn’t as manly looking when it’s clean shaven or something. I’m sure it’s all a matter of preference, so who’s to say what’s better? It all depends on your own tastes and your partner’s.

• [Takashi Omoto]

  Albeit the idea has merit, the website content is dismal. It’s like one of those list e-mails of the “you know you watch too much porn when…” variety stretched into a full website. Maybe it will become something interesting one day.

• [dderidex]

  #25 “No. We want you to like yourself the way you are.”

  Especially those hairy armpits and legs. And don’t you dare think about any makeup! Au natural, all the way! ROWR!

  And while we are on the topic, deodorant? Pfft – that’s for abnormal un-naturalists. eau de man is the only bouquet *I* feature!

  Oh…wait….no….

  (See, my problem is that this is far beyond a ‘slippery sloap’ argument…which are usually spurious. It’s not like someone is going 1% of the way there and you have to be all, like, “OMG!! IF WE GIVE THEM 1%, IT’S 100% IMMEDIATELY NEXT!!!” I mean, women are already shaving 95% of the hair off their lower bodies!)

  • [Antinous / Moderator]

    I think that deodorant is gross and I like guys who look like Chewbacca. Not everybody has the same erotic peccadilloes.

• [Perla]

  Really, really, shaving down there is the same as shaving legs and pits?
  Others have answered this. I trim but I don’t shave, I won’t let a razor shave it off, ever again. I don’t need to shave my legs thankfully, I have fine fuzz, very fine and short fuzz. It’s not the long blondy kind. I’m not a hairy person, even my eyebrows are quite wispy but down there is another issue. I don’t understand that at all. I’m practically hairless everywhere else except for that down there.

  The worst bit is when it’s growing back in. Ever sat down and just itching down there? I’ve to escape ever so often to the bathroom so it doesn’t look like I’m humping the chair. And then there’s the ingrown hairs. I have scars from the ingrown hairs around my bikini area.
  I can wax my bikini line but the pain of getting wax down there and stripping hairs of your coochie is just intolerable.

  By the way, I’ve heard with the economy and all and waxing being more expensive, the 70′s bush is coming back!!
  Trim, that’s all I’m doing. don’t give me any oral sex, you are not getting any sex! Bye! Next!

• [Perla]

  Also, it will help for breasts. Women’s breasts are really bags of fat. They do not look like perfect inflated gravity defying balloons that try to stretch upwards.
  There ARE naturally women who have very large breasts with slim bodies but they are a minority. A slim woman with big boobs is likelier to have implants than not. And yes some of them are natural but not all of them.
  And going at it like a jackhammer for hours and hours makes the womanly parts go numb.

• [Ugly Canuck]

  “largely monogamous”?
  You’ve got to be a fool to think your man/woman loves nobody else but you.

• [Ugly Canuck]

  Actually, “apparently largely monogamous” would also be acceptable.

• [Kyle Armbruster]

  I have never wanted my girlfriends or wives to shave, but some trimming is much appreciated. A big, spitty lump of pubic hair, some getting stuck in my throat (a la Curb Your Enthusiasm) just plain isn’t fun.

  I trim. Personally, I am much more grossed out by my own body hair than anyone else’s, but as I have aged it just keeps expanding. I trim it all regularly, but I have long since admitted that it is a losing battle. I used to shave my armpits when I was wearing little tiny t-shirts (when I was young and wiry), because I was/am really disgusted when a guy raises his arm and you see that godawful tuft of wiry armpit hair peeking out… Blech.

  Anyway, you could do a X vs. Real World for a lot of things. Dderidex is becoming unpopular in this thread, but his observations about romance novels (or movies, I’d add) are actually really poignant. I think a lot of guys have unrealistic physical expectations of women, and a lot of girls have unrealistic emotional expectations of men. Ideally, we’d all like to be everything our partners want of us, but sometimes that’s just not possible without going mad.

• [kobrakai]

  Wow. So you’re telling me that different people (regardless of their gender) like different things about sex than other people? I never knew that.

• [Pteryxx]

  Bah… the site is cute and an almost complete waste of time. This is much better:

  (maybe NSFW due to ads)

  http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/ITEM/Inside_The_Erotic_Mind.htm

  That’s the Erotica Readers and Writers Association’s discussion site, Inside the Erotic Mind. Every month for the last several years they post another question, and people write in with their opinions, preferences, and experiences. It’s the best guide to real-life I’ve ever seen.

• [vettekaas]

  I’ll just put in my 2 cents: I used to shave because I thought that’s what my partner wanted. turns out she preferred unshaven because stubble grows back so fast and the whole experience ends up being softer when unshaved.

  I hate porn videos with unshaven women. it looks like CHILDREN. it’s disturbing.

• [GregLondon]

  I have a website like that, but it was about war.

  War in movies: good guys live (except maybe some side character who talks about his girl), bad guys die (except if they need a villian for the sequel), good guys never harm innocent bystanders.

  War in real life: well, you get the idea.

  You could probably have a website dedicated to the difference between how computers operate in movies versus real life. Live Free of Die Hard was bad that way.

• [Ugly Canuck]

  Porn World? Where is that? Across from Wally World?

• [Aloisius]

  My pubes? They take fricken forever, I can’t see what the hell I’m shaving and sometimes I nick myself, ugh

  If you can’t tell what you’re shaving then it stands to reason that your partner might have trouble telling what they’re licking – especially in the beginning well before even thinking about the clitoris. Sure they’re a lot closer, but some women have a serious amount of hair (and it gets long and yes you can choke on it).

  I find performing cunnilingus infinitely more enjoyable when my partner is waxed and frankly, there’s places I lick to tease that I don’t go when it is au natural.

• [desiredusername]

  @73 It may be a minor point but many women form this “opening up” pattern when they are aroused. It’s beautiful to look at and you can see it across the room on women that aren’t extremely bushy.

  I doubt anyone, except perhaps the very young that Cindy Gallop is dating, INSIST on a shaven meow, though. That is a panic.

  Personally it seems like there is a hysteria about porn (and I don’t mean in the old upset women have disturbed uteruses sense – I mean both genders are panicking). Yet porn is as old as the first drawings. Why do they shave in porn now? To see everything. They probably won’t stop doing it either.

  Why do women (and men) shave now? It’s a bodily fashion. Why do men (and some women) build muscles? What are six packs all about? Don’t young people know it is a lot of work and working out is very painful? It’s a bodily fashion. Some women insist on men having six packs, but like the men that insist on shaved pussies they are in the minority. Their path is difficult.

  You also can’t expect everyone you like to find you sexy no matter what you do, or think. That is just a plain old youthful fallacy. No one is immune from sexual disappointment. Healthy people find what works for them and try not to pay too high a price for their sexual pleasure knowing that a price that is too high can be self-defeating.

• [keshmeshi]

  Don’t want to shave? Don’t expect me to provide oral pleasure.

  Fair enough. Then don’t expect anyone to give you oral or to have sex with you at all. One thing a lot of guys fail to consider is that we don’t have to have sex with you, period. If you don’t like something about our bodies, there’s the door.

• [desiredusername]

  I think they message is:

  If you are a man you should only fantasize about sex that is exactly like real sex only idealized to satisfy women’s desires specifically and one’s self only in token.

  It’s repressive.

  I think the credo of administering to the tastes of any woman you may be having sex with is perfectly sensible. Unless it is done to extremes it is usually at elast somewhat rewarding. But why oh why must there be an invasion of my fantasies also? If it is because women “perform” this fantasy that makes it wrong? Should I only read dirty comic books and literary erotica?

• [Lauren O]

  I think I missed the part where legs and armpits became 95% of the female body. I don’t shave my stomach or my breasts or my back or my fingers or my toes or my buttocks. I spend a few minutes per week on the legs (usually only below the knee, even) and the armpits. It is not a logical leap to go from there to the pubes. Even shaving the visible pubes if I’m going to wear a swimsuit in public leave me with razor burn. My boyfriend has never complained of getting a hair stuck between his teeth, probably mainly because he isn’t ripping my pubic hair out of my skin with his teeth. In fact, i have never experienced oral sex that involved teeth. Maybe you’re doing it wrong?

• [Anonymous]

  “At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum… it’s breathtaking – I highly suggest you try it.” –
  Dr. Evil

• [Ugly Canuck]

  Speaking of porn I note the sad passing of another fine rocker, from The Cramps:
  http://tsutpen.blogspot.com/

• [blueelm]

  “Couldn’t we just solve this problem by having young women learn about sex from hardcore porno as well?”

  Most of them do.

  Personally, I considered sex more like an act put on for the sake of the guy for most of my life.

  Sad, huh…

• [Anonymous]

  Neither the wife nor I shave. Neither of us care for it that much, nor the maintenance required.

  Last time I shaved, she actually became quite upset, and asked my why I’d “mutilated” myself.

• [Gloria]

  DDERIDEX:

  I only shave my legs in the summer (and only if I’m wearing shorts or skirts, which isn’t always the case) or on formal occasions where I’m wearing a dress. I have sex much, much more often throughout the year.

  I keep my pits shaved because the hair can stink. I don’t shave my arms. Eyebrows are once a week, for about five minutes.

  Janeylicious makes fantastic points. I have to echo her point that it’s really no compromise; you’re either freshly shaven and have to go *right now* or it feels like you’re grinding on sandpaper the next day. Not to mention that I can’t see a damn thing; it’s not only awkward to look, it’s friggin’ dark.

  Regarding visual arousal, can *anyone* tell from across a room if a woman, shaven, is aroused (as one might be able to observe a man)? Especially if she’s standing? I have no idea it was that obvious.

  I haven’t had to wonder whether my guy enjoys going down on me. I’ve asked him; he’s told me. And he’s having a good time so far.

• [Itsumishi]

  That site is utterly bullshit.

  Clitoral stimulation is the only way a woman can cum? Either every one of my exes was been it (which is a horribly depressing thought) or the idiot that made that site talks from her own experience and no one else’s.

  Yes I am aware some woman require clitoral stimulation to come, but to think all do all the time is absolute rubbish.

  • [Antinous / Moderator]

    I can only speak from my experience as a gay man and confidante of many straight women, but, um…..most women seem to need that to close the deal. Sorry.

• [absimiliard]

  The site seems rather repetitive, and several of us have already pointed that out quite handily, with examples.

  I’ll note that, for me, the only really interesting part was the cutesy “signage” style illos for the topics in question.

  I particularly liked the one for the clitoris. The one for bukake kinda creeps me out, but that’s okay since bukake kinda creeps me out.

  -abs found it on the whole to be cute, but trite

• [mdh]

  I’d prefer a slippery soap argument, myself.

• [Takuan]

  I quite agree. Why, I’ve been able to bring women to orgasm by just leaving.

• [Anonymous]

  I’m a woman, and I don’t get rid of any hair. There’s no point. I have a shitty case of hirsutism; there’s just to damn much of it ALL OVER and it just grows back in less than a day.

  Stare all you want, your eyes aren’t going to laser it off. Hell, LASERS won’t even burn it off. Don’t like it? Either walk away or stab yourself in the eyes with a hot knife. I’ll be happy to help you with either one. I’m not here to sex up YOUR scenery, just my boyfriend’s, who’s just fine with me being a human with imperfect genes. The love and sex more than make up for it.

• [belgium]

  @60

  Agreed, I tend to find that shaving my dick and balls in the shower is actually over quicker than shaving my face (insert penis size joke here).

  From a male perspective, it looks better, feels better and following DDERIDEX’s argument its most likely that you already shave your face, so you may as well shave your pubes, its the exact same amount of difficulty.

  I personally shave my pubes, chest, face, armpits, bum and lower back, but that’s definitely a personal preference because I think body hair is gross (I don’t care that it’s ‘natural’, so’s going to the toilet).

• [Gloria]

  @39: Aloisius, she may correct me if I’m wrong, but I think she can’t see her own junk because it’s ensconced between her legs, not because it’s lost in a jungle of hair.

  Everyone still remembers that no hair grows on the clitoris, right? Or anywhere inside?

• [dderidex]

  #30 “I hate porn videos with unshaven(?sic?) women. it looks like CHILDREN. it’s disturbing.”

  I assume you mean ‘shaven women’, here.

  ANYWAY, this is what I was trying to point out above. Guess what? When females hit puberty, it’s not ONLY the pubic hair that starts to appear. This is also when the underarm hair and leg hair starts (full amount usually grown in by teen years).

  YET – when women shave off their underarm and leg hair, you don’t say it is “disturbing”, and “makes them looks like children” when – if your sole distinction is ‘how much hair their body has before and after puberty’ – yes, it most certainly does! And yes, I’ve heard this argument before, and it still doesn’t make sense, and given the number of posts in this thread (with some very strongly worded comments), I really wish someone could explain this.

  Women commonly shave off 95% of the hair on their bodies below their neck. This little bit left is a HUGE ISSUE, though. Why?

  Arguments against:

  - “It makes them look like children”
  No. It doesn’t. A woman looks like a woman by the SHAPE of her body, not amount of hair. And if this WAS a valid criticism…how does removing 95% of it still make her look completely adult, but 100% of it make her suddenly a child? This makes no sense!

  - “It takes too much effort to do”
  Really? Compared to what? Shaving under the arms and legs? I have yet to see a women with an amount of pubic hair sufficient to cover more surface area on her body than her arms, underarms, and legs.

  - “It’s what sexually promiscuous people do, and I’m not one of those kinds of people”
  Yeah, and ‘those kind of people’ hug, hold hands, and kiss, too. Should we stop doing that, as well? Rumor has it they also breath oxygen and eat food…

  - “It’s not ‘natural’”
  No, granted, it’s not. Neither is makeup. Or, heck, cutting any of your hair at all. Hairspray? Powder? Paste? All unnatural. While we are at it, why aren’t you walking to work instead of driving? And computers?? When did THOSE evolve from existing organisms?! If we already accept (and encourage) a tremendous volume of behavior that is ‘not of the natural world’ that we think is an improvement…then it becomes a fairly weak argument to fall back on, now.

  Arguments for:
  + You like it when a guy ‘goes down’ on you. Ya ever wonder how much he likes hairs stuck in his teeth? In case you haven’t noticed, when going down on each other, you don’t have to go anywhere near hair to give him a good time, and certainly don’t have to bury your entire face in it. The opposite is not true.

  + When being intimate with someone, it’s nice to see their “sexy bits”. Women, if you saw a guy naked for the first time, and you couldn’t tell if he was aroused or not because you could see NOTHING (literally, nothing) of his privates under this enormous cloud of hair…would that turn you on? Why do you expect guys to be as interested as they could be when faced with the same situation?

  Bah! Sites like the above just annoy me. Victorian prudishness re-bundled for a new era.

• [themagus]

  #20
  you are correct
  completely crap website

• [Itsumishi]

  There has to be some sort of rhythmic pressure on the clit in just the right way to make a woman come. Can be pubic bone, tongue, fingers, something else entirely. But it has to be there.

  The wording from the site, just to make my argument clearer.

  Yes many women do need that to ‘close the deal’. My current partner is certainly one of those people (with the exception of one fabulous night).

  However my three previous girlfriends certainly didn’t need it to cum.

  It certainly helped in the foreplay and sometimes it would help it happen, but it certainly wasn’t necessary for the process.

• [Takuan]

  no mention of a rubbing beach anywhere.

• [crashgrab]

  #38 dderidex: I know it’s different for everyone, but here’s my take on this. I’m a woman and I trim, but don’t always shave or get waxed. I actually do kind of like the look, but I only do so about once or twice a year. Here’s why:

  1. Shaving gives me horrible razor burn and ingrown hairs down there. You can’t compare the skin on your legs and underarms to skin in your pubic area. It’s much more sensitive.

  2. Waxing is expensive and painful. Waxing lasts longer, but I still don’t have the money to get it done as often as it’s needed. And did I mention it’s painful? Granted the pain goes away after you’ve left the salon, but I have literally screamed out loud and scared other salon customers. I’m kind of a wimp, but surely I’m not the only one.

• [Anonymous]

  What if porn is all you have?

• [Anonymous]

  I see no reason why any person of either sex should want to remove any hair from any part of their body or wish any other person to do so.

• [Jupiter BFPOE]

  ALL LIES!!!!! Next thing someone is going to tell you that there’s a good chance you’ll get killed if you are involved in a gun fight with multiple automatic weapons or if you jump off a four story building into a truck you probably won’t walk away and you can jump your car 100′s of feet and drive away. ALL MOVIES ARE REALITY EVEN PORN.

  Also I would suggest trimming as an alternative to shaving. Short dislodged hairs are much less disturbing in your mouth than long hairs and it’s a lot easier than being clean shaven.

• [janeylicious]

  #37 dderidex:

  Really? Compared to what? Shaving under the arms and legs? I have yet to see a women with an amount of pubic hair sufficient to cover more surface area on her body than her arms, underarms, and legs.
  My eyebrows take 1 minute to wax and pluck at home every couple of weeks. I don’t shave my arms, but that would take a couple minutes. My legs take a couple minutes every other day or so.

  My pubes? They take fricken forever, I can’t see what the hell I’m shaving and sometimes I nick myself, ugh. Plus the hair grows back so fast if I wanted to stay completely shaved I’d have to shave it at least every single day, or more like every single time before sex. It’s a compromise between no hair and stubble all the time. I tried to stay totally and completely hair free down there once, I spent more time shaving my pubes than I did anything else of in the shower. I’d consider waxing, but it’s expensive and I can’t justify the price yet. Maybe for a special occasion.

  You like it when a guy ‘goes down’ on you. Ya ever wonder how much he likes hairs stuck in his teeth? In case you haven’t noticed, when going down on each other, you don’t have to go anywhere near hair to give him a good time, and certainly don’t have to bury your entire face in it. The opposite is not true.
  Hmm, two parts: I’ve never had hair stuck in my teeth going down on another girl, and I’ve never had hair stuck in my teeth going down on a guy, although I can and do go near hair. Also, I don’t remember any guy going down on me complaining about these things either. It only comes up in arguments like these. I wonder why and how long hair has to get before it reaches the “gets stuck in teeth during oral sex” phase.

  Anyway, I don’t really care either way. I don’t care if people shave or if people don’t (although I’d appreciate a little trimming), I just wish people would give more consideration when they ask their partners to shave. And I’d expect some mutual shaving :)

• [Anonymous]

  Why is this even something people argue about?
  You want to shave your junk? Fine. You don’t want to shave your junk? Also fine.

  You want your partner to shave his or her junk? Ask nicely.