By David Pescovitz at 8:09 pm Thu, Aug 28, 2008
I don’t deny the existence of god any more than the existence of a previously unknown hominid. I will debate their natures though.
That said, the shirt is kinda funny, and I wouldn’t have a problem wearing it– if it offends religious people, well. . . their “In the event of Rapture this car will be unmanned” bumper stickers offend me. Such is life.
(The great thing about denying the existence of Bigfoot is that you won’t seem like a crackpot. Even if the creature is eventually found and proven, well, you were just following what seemed like a logical conclusion, and those people who claimed to see Bigfoot, well. . . maybe they weren’t crackpots after all, but nevertheless they were crackpots for a while in the eyes of the rest of us. Unlike god, there is a possibility that Bigfoot will be found and cataloged and the matter put to rest.)
It’s only 22 comments in an you all haven’t wrapped up the debate on the existence of God? What good is this damn internet.
It’s a fine and very funny shirt. Let religious nuts and atheist heathens join together on that.
And pie, everyone loves pie.
We absolutely HAVE to be the most intelligent beings in existence… ‘cuz I mean, look at us, we’re just so cool!
Cavey: Do not forget that some will have “evidence” available only to themselves, in the form of revelation. These people will not be swayed from the testimony of their own senses. They actually have the ears to hear, so to speak.
But this “evidence” not being available to others, cannot serve the role which true evidence must play, to prove to others the existence of some state of fact, as it is ineluctably personal to the person graced by this revealed “truth”, and we are dependent for our knowledge of it on that person’s testimony alone.
Overall I agree with you, but I advise that you not waste your breath on them, for reasoned arguments will not triumph over a person’s own experiences, if those experiences have lead that person to believe in a deity or deities. There is no utility in, nor reward for, engaging such in this debate.
I do not have any problem whatsoever with honest faith. People have to think things out for themselves. Many have neither the wit, the leisure nor even the desire to do so, though. And yet they seem to do well enough.
Finally it is important to remember the social values that many, many people get and create by their belonging to a church or other religious group. By denying their deity’s existence they will feel it an attack on their society and those social values, the good times they have had with their group, as well as their beliefs, even if those beliefs aren’t strongly held.
In other words I’m more for quiet atheism, gently leading the flock away from the slough of error.
It’s fascinating to me how many threads turn into:
There’s no god.
Yes, there is.
No, there isn’t!
YES, there is!
If the atheists are satisfied that they’re correct, why do they bother arguing with the believers? And if the believers’ belief is that strong, why do they care what the atheists think?
Normally I ignore what appear to be rants more than three lines long. However, #39 Foetusnail, that summed up my feelings so well that you made my morning.
I wish I were more of an attention whore, so I could wear my “SCIENCE. IT WORKS, BITCHES” shirt in public more comfortably.
As it is, it’s like driving around in a bright red Ferrari. People either give you the thumbs-up or the stink-eye. It seems that nobody can remain neutral in sight of such assertive apparel.
The last time I wore that shirt, I was feeling rather self-conscious, and starting to questioning my own judgment. Then I saw a brand-new BMW X5 with a bumper sticker reading,
Don’t let the car fool you. My real treasure is in heaven.
Don’t let the car fool you. My real treasure is in heaven.
Suddenly I felt more entitled to broadcast my own little social statement.
who said these entertainers are gods-free?
YES there is!
(but your idea of it is wrong)
You clever attempt to change the subject away from the fact that your statement was completely wrong is noble…yet unsuccessful. :-)
somebody pinch me…I am having an interaction with someone about whether or not “gods-free” people say “it is true faith is wrong” in the comments section of a thread about a gods free tee shirt that says faith is wrong.
I am the eye in the sky
— Allan Parsons
I guess you’re having trouble with the words.Try this: there are more than two categories.
“It’s fascinating to me how many thread turn into:
There’s no god.
Yes, there is.
No, there isn’t!
YES, there is!”
I am interested why you posted that in a thread where no one is having that argument. There has been discussion about how each side speaks about themselves and others…but no one is arguing the existence of God. Seems a little reflexive.
Have to say, though, that there totally are unicorns. Don’t be lumpin them in with Zeus.
Pfft… like a fart noise? I don’t get it.
“There’s leak, there’s leak,
In the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers
God’s away, God’s away,
God’s away on Business. Business…
…Goddamn there’s always such
A big temptation
To be good, To be good
There’s always free cheddar in
A mousetrap, baby
It’s a deal, it’s a deal
God’s away, God’s away, God’s away
On Business. Business.”
-Written by the same guy who wrote “Jesus Gonna Be Here Soon”
everywhere I go on these webs people always impose their damned FAKE unicorns on me. i wish you people would just keep it to yourselves. I don’t believe in unicorns and I’m PERFECTLY HEALTHY AND HAPPY, as are MILLIONS of my fellow acornists (not atheist but…)! This isn’t your rainbow pulpit, go preach somewhere else and stop imposing your MYTHS on the rest of us.
wait… is this your rainbow pulpit? *checks URL, backs away slowly*
God is as real as Odysseus, Sherlock Holmes, Frankenstein and Uncle Sam. He’s lots of people’s favorite character. I don’t think Bigfoot exists, but I’m quite sure an all-knowing all-powerful Bigfoot who created the universe is total and utter hogwash.
Deviant – Thanks
Happy birthday, big lad!
This ain’t an argument about faith, it is about religion imposing their beliefs on the secular world. This is about people dying because religious zealots oppose sex education and passing out condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS. This is about a president, that when discussing his opposition to stem cell research says, the ends don’t justify the means, but supports the death penalty and starts a war. This is about teaching Creationist myth as though it were science instead of theology. This is about turning children into Zombies for Jesus. The religious mind is hacked, mommy and daddy did it, and you will never believe it or understand what it means. The faithful have been thrown the bone for so long they don’t know a roast has meat. Faith ain’t the problem, it is what you have faith in.
@#4: I’m an atheist Unitarian Universalist. I just might wear a shirt like that to church. I think everyone there knows me well enough to not be offended, especially since the sermon last Sunday was in part about the book I am writing about how atheists and religious people need to be more tolerant.
I, for one, believe Bigfoot is God.
I appreciate you guys even if I disagree with your atheism.
I like it, except I don’t.
I like the in-your-face-ness of the shirt.
I don’t like that it asserts big-foot exists.
I also don’t like that it asserts God/s doesn’t/don’t.
I’m not an atheist, I’m a strong agnostic. I’ve spent much of my life focussed on religion and belief, despite being an unbeliever, and I’ve never seen proof of anything supernatural. I simply can not believe in a God without proof. But I’ve also never seen proof God doesn’t exist. So to assert, on my t-shirt, that there is no God would be lying, for me.
Thus I’m torn, I like the shirt’s attitude, but wearing the shirt would make me a liar. And I just can’t conscience that.
-bs ndrss ths mssg
AirShowFan – I find it interesting how many UU’s, whether they are Pagan, Buddhist, atheist or theist, populate this site, it’s a shame there are not more in this world.
I make typos CONSTANTLY, but good grief people.
The subtext of the t is, of course, Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.
Paul M! You get a cookie, cause you got the pbr subtext (or at least mentioned it)!
In case anyone cares, here is the cat and girl it’s from, which has girl lamenting the lack of parody t-shirts for atheist:
I have one of these, and wear it to school, and none of my religious friends (and I seem to have several of them of various religions) seem to care. No strangers have come up and accosted me either (this is in GA). It’s a funny shirt, I think, sort of mocking the whole idea of such certainty, both of the religious and the atheist, both sides who are so sure they are right. I personally fall agnostic. I don’t know… I do respect my friends and they seem to respect me.
Oh! And the really important part of this…
Happy Birthday David P!!!!
Ponder your lack of faith while go to funeral of everyone you know who mysteriously all die tomorrow…
Cpt.TIm we are in agreement.
If anyone is curious this was created by the amazing brain behind the Cat and Girl comics. http://www.catandgirl.com/
If it said ‘the loch ness monster’ instead I would wear one everyday and buy even more just to give them out to people
GENEUS @1, Thanks for that info!
It takes chutzpah to wear that shirt to church.
pheww, scobied…who’s nose am i going to pick now???
For some real fun, wear that shirt and a well-charged stun gun to a redneck bar, then wait for the chaos to ensue. It’ll be like living-out the lyrics to that song, “Uneasy Rider.” :D
Anyway, happy birthday, David!
Perhaps you would like to join the Loch Ness Monster Adventure Club?
Love cat and girl.
Happy birthday, David! (Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.) =D
I can understand that people have no problem saying “I can not prove, but I chose to believe” … if the thing they believe in endorses belief.
Hard line atheism though – one ends up saying “although I can not prove it, I chose to accept on faith, and argue not merely that it is plausible, but that it is true that faith is wrong”.
I would no more wear this shirt than I would wear “Pi = 3.0″.
I wouldn’t want to put my poor reasoning on display for others to see.
I like the pabstness of it.
Happy Birthday Pesco!!!
I’m a pretty staunch atheist. I believe god exists as much as i believe russels teapot exists. possible? yes. do i believe in it, no.
but i don’t like the shirt.
not really all that clever, and the pfft thing rubs me the wrong way. Sure i can bet flippant when discussing god, but I don’t wish to mock theists because i believe i am right. My main contention with theists is the structure of many of their religions and the policies and actions it spurs them to. So i try to limit my mocking to the absurdity of arbitrary, cruel laws or inhumane or bigoted practices.
Plus the shirt seems to mock the theist reader. When i do get, i more prefer to mock god directly.
horse puckies. The gods-free don’t say: “it is true faith is wrong”. They just get on with things. It’s the demon-obsessed minds that insist on seeing the gods-free as just like them; “They GOTTA BELIEVE in SOMETHING! I DO!” You frame the argument to include them in your world, they are not.
“although I can not prove it, I chose to accept on faith, and argue not merely that it is plausible, but that it is true that faith is wrong”.
Wow, what verbal athleticism! That’s some contorted syntax, that is! Didn’t you pinch your nuts on that one?
@41 Nah, you’ve got it wrong: We do believe in bigfoot (it even says so on the t-shirt), so we all have the good sense to stay out of his way when he’s rampaging.
Not that there’s anything mysterious about being pounded to death by a huge half-ape.
I’m going to go downtown, climb a high rise and drop tea pots on random heads for a while.
PHIKUS @8, Thanks! It was a bit ago but I was traveling and just got my gift a few days ago. : )
I’d buy it for $1 more if they worked the goatse hands into the image…
@#9 — PFFFT.
I’m sure then that you’re equally open to the existence of Thor and Thoth and Shiva and Ahura Mazda and Zeus and Ishtar and unicorns.
Wait, you’re pretty sure they don’t exist?
“The gods-free don’t say: “it is true faith is wrong”. They just get on with things.”
Uh……no….apparently they make tee shirts.
Tell me more about how Penn Jillette, Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens just get on with things.
Cavey: I’m open to their existence as concepts, but as entities of mass and will, well, no. That is, I think I know what you are referring to by the use of these words, these sounds, these scratches of dark on light, but whether that what is referred to, has an existence separate and apart from our representation of them, is more than open to doubt.
Doubt is demanded by good sense….
how entertainers make their living is their business, why should I be concerned with that?
I think a reasonable person, due to a dearth of evidence is going to put all of them in the “no” pile and it would be equally reasonable to put yhwh in the same pile.
It would also to quite reasonable to but and wear this lovely t-shirt.
I’m half-thinking that any T-shirt design with an in-your-face statement (of religion, atheism, politics, whatever) would work better printed on a deep-V shirt.
Bah. Scratch the otiose “that” from before the “what” and after the “whether” in the above. Whew.
I would assume you would be concerned because they examples of how your statement that “The gods-free don’t say: “it is true faith is wrong”. They just get on with things.” is utterly and completely untrue.
Everyone has to believe something.
I believe I’ll have another Cat and Girl
Bigfoot may exist,but who is this god person ?
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