Inspiring manifesto from China's Jasmine revolution

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25 Responses to “Inspiring manifesto from China's Jasmine revolution”

  1. turn_self_off says:

    The problem is that Communism in the Marx(ist) sense is not about mass production as seen in soviet union, China or anywhere else. It is closer to “made to order” (or perhaps “print on demand”). This because any real mass production requires central control on the demand so that one is not left with a mass of surplus products. The soviet union attempted this using enormous statistics, the Capitalist world uses equally large marketing/propaganda.

    As for this focus on wages, that just allows those that control the flow of money to control the show. You can starve people by cutting of their money access while there is excess of food available, for instance (at least on a isolated basis, do it large scale and you get uprisings as seen on the news right now. At least unless you manage to make everyone think they are on their own in their plight).

    • Sam125 says:

      Nice job with inserting Anon comments 6 and 9 after the fact and changing the time posted lol.

      Anyway, China’s economic inequality isn’t a commentary on ideology moreso than it’s a sign that the country is industrializing. For better or worse, if you put the means of production in the hands of a few people, guess what? You’re going to have a small group of people holding a majority of a nation’s wealth. This is true in China, US and anywhere else the government doesn’t take active steps to redistribute wealth.

      Whether or not you agree with redistribution is more along your ideological beliefs.

      • Antinous / Moderator says:

        Nice job with inserting Anon comments 6 and 9 after the fact and changing the time posted lol.

        I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply. Anonymous comments appear when they are approved, but are timed when they are originally submitted. Nobody can alter the time stamp on a comment or change its order in queue.

  2. whoswho says:

    i really hope that the media also talk about the appearance of US ambassdor to china on the scene.. whatwas he doing over there? china is changing and we have to take a fresh look at it.

  3. DarthVain says:

    Hey China. Welcome to capitalism. Ain’t it grand. It apparently is a really great scheme for giving all the wealth to a tiny minority of the population.

    • Wickedashtray says:

      Granted, capitalism has more than its share of abuses but I challenge anyone to show an example of Socialism or Communism that functions as advertised.

      • RyanH says:

        It seems to work pretty well for the Scandinavian countries. There are also quite a few countries (almost every developed country except the US) that happily use socialized methods to provide essential services while leaving the rest of the economy in the hands of capitalism. A best of both worlds approach that ignores any ideological purity in favor of getting the job done.

      • osmo says:

        What is socialism and communism to you? Are you
        a) using the american term where it means “anything to do with a state”?
        b) trying to be brezhnevian and say that the Soviet Union really acquired communism? (which no one else seems to have agreed on)?
        c) using it as terms for methods of reaching communism/a classless society?
        d) saying that its anything that is not what you have right now, where ever that may be?

        Because like my granddad and my dad I call myself a communist. Like both of them I disliked the idea of the Soviet Union, Cuba and China. My point is that it isn’t as easy as you make it out to be. The fact that communists instigated uprisings against the Soviet Union in the beginning of the 20th century. Or that people who called themselves communists in Paris in 68 sent threats, not to the US but Moscow (the classic “the world will not be satisfied” note). Thomas Paines politics was used by communists for example and the basis of decentralized ruling and the concept of an ongoing revolution (which he coined) was considered part of it. Like I said: its not as easy as you make it out to be.

        Also as a scandinavian (Gothenburg, Sweden) this isn’t socialism. Its just like China: state capitalism in its death throws about to give over to market capitalism. As a commie all I can say is good luck to those trying to rise up against their rulers in China.

    • Anonymous says:

      America does not have anything close to a true capitalist economy. Unions, Massive banks and corporations, mass media, and the federal gov all work together to keep the rich rich and the poor stupid. The FED gov has worked with large banks to create a monopoly on our money system, our education system is controlled by Unions and Fed gov, and soon our Health care system will be completely controlled by large insurance companies and the Fed. Our media is controlled by the Fed and large Corps. Our farms are also becoming a large monopoly. Massive Corps and Federal gov are working together. They have become legalized criminals. The poor Dems think the Rich Capitalist Rep are taking their money and causing all their problems. The working poor Rep thinks the Dem. socialist gov is taking their money and causing all their problems. While the super rich suck all the recourses from America. Eventually when America is sucked dry the super rich will move onto the next victim leaving the average american with a pile of sh## wondering what happend.

      They only solution is competitive eduacation, small local gov, and individual freedom. Thank god for the web. If we let that go we are all *&^%

  4. AnthonyC says:

    Money accrues to those who seek money. Power accrues to those who seek power. Uniform wealth distributions are unstable in the presence of free individual choice. No economic system is immune to this unless it denies individuals the ability to choose what they buy.

    Conversely, too much inequality inhibits further growth by limiting the market for goods and services. In an overall economy with a somewhat more equal wealth distribution than pure, unregulated capitalism will produce, the rich will be richer *in absolute terms* but less rich *relative to the average.* Would you rather be a poor king among poorer paupers or a regular king among rich kings?

    As is often the case, the middle road is best. The market should be free. The desire to make money really does generate (some) good ideas that grow the market for everyone. Not all goods should be sold on the market- some should be publicly financed/guaranteed to all. In my personal thinking, that list should include: police, fire, pollution control, water (say, publicly finance the first 10 gallons/person/day), food (no one should starve for lack of staples like rice, flour, beans), education (through high school at a minimum, college is more reasonable in today’s world), and medical care.

  5. KWillets says:

    Darn, I was hoping they would make some specifically Chinese demands, like that their Kung Fu school remain open.

  6. nosehat says:

    Thanks for posting this!

    And Bruce Sterling’s comment is spot on! This strikes a note with real global resonance, and Sterling identifies that note perfectly.

  7. TabulaRasa says:

    There, I fixed it:

    Every good and honest person, please think: So much public housing has been sold to individuals, so many state-owned enterprises and so much land have been sold, and nearly all state-owned property has been sold off. But where has all the money from these sales gone? It goes without saying that state-owned property belongs to the entire people. But what did the people get? Led by corrupt politicians, the opaque process of privatization has made a small number of people rich, but what did the vast number of ordinary people get? Every good and honest person, please think: ever since WWII until the 80s, countries world wide were able to make the overwhelming majority of their people prosperous. Why is it that during the last 2 decades the ordinary people are becoming poorer? Why is it that in just the last few decades the gap between the rich and poor gets wider and wider? It is because the unfair system has made a small number of people incredibly wealthy, and the vast majority of people remain poor.

  8. Sam125 says:

    A quick Wiki search shows that China’s wealth distribution is more unequal than it is in the US. That’s saying something!

  9. Marilyn Terrell says:

    Interesting that the “freedom and democracy” language was a direct quote from China premier Wen Jiabao. From John Parker, who happened to be in Shanghai on business n February 27th (the appointed day for the second Shanghai Jasmine Rally):
    “Premier Wen spoke those words during a remarkable CNN interview last year, where he appeared to support the idea of political reform, triggering speculation of a rift within China’s top leadership over fundamental political issues. On the morning of February 26th, in an action that seemed clearly timed to pre-empt the second weekly Jasmine Rally (scheduled for the afternoon of the 27th), Wen conducted a highly unusual web chat with Chinese citizens, in which he promised to address a number of the grievances raised by the Jasmine Rally organizers, including taming inflation, runaway property prices, and environmental damage. This chat was heavily covered by Xinhua, the Chinese Communist Party-controlled news service, but tellingly, no mention was made of political reform.

    It was unclear whether this extraordinary chat was instigated by Wen himself, or by China’s top leaders as a whole. Regardless of which is the case, the lack of any similar action by President Hu Jintao was very conspicuous. This was consistent with Hu’s reputation: his unwillingness to consider even the most timid political reforms has been duly noted by China’s people, who have begun referring to him in sardonic Internet postings as “Hu-barak” or (more recently) “Hu-ammar Qaddafi.” These appellations are partly a response to the Chinese regime’s pervasive Internet censorship, which has cracked down heavily on postings that mention the fallen Arab dictators by name.

    Unfortunately, the Wen chat was only the nice-guy public face of Beijing’s response to the Jasmine Rallies — the mere suggestion that its top leaders could end up like Hosni Mubarak appears to have given the CCP a serious case of the vapors, and its response was strikingly disproportionate to the actual act which triggered the rallies. Within hours of the first postings, according to Chinese sources cited by CDT, police were requesting server logs to hunt down “Shudong” [the Twitter user who first called for a Jasmine Revolution on Feb. 20], who had posted anonymously. Detentions of several top dissidents soon followed, while others were put under house arrest. CCP goons even threatened to rape the wife of one dissident, according to technology blogger Jason Ng. Ng also cited claims on some websites that the army had been issued live ammunition to deal with the protests.”

    More on Shanghai rally: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/first-hand-report-from-a-jasmine-rally-in-shanghai/?singlepage=true

  10. turn_self_off says:

    did really his examples make its people prosperous?

    Maybe for the short term, but i do not think it lasted.

  11. Anonymous says:

    “We do not necessarily have to overthrow the current government. As long as the government fights corruption, the government and officials accept the people’s supervision, the government is sincere about solving the problems regarding judicial independence and freedom of expression and gives a timetable, we can give the ruling party time to solve the problems.”

    Because that worked so well for the Egyptians the first several times around, amirite?

  12. Daemon says:

    It also all but explicitly points out something I’ve been saying for years: China isn’t actually a communist economy.

  13. ManikMonkee says:

    “China has gone from being a country with the smallest gap between the rich and the poor to one with the largest?”

    would he actually prefer everyone* on a dollar a day to a minimum wage of 10 dollars a day, an average wage of 30 dollars a day and some really rich people

    *except the glorious leader & co

    I’d rather have food everyday and see c@nts driving about in BMW’s than starve with everyone else

  14. T'Pau says:

    If there is one piece of truth to be gotten out of the various Socialist/Communist states of the 20th century, is that even a Communist state can’t bring about a true communist economy.

  15. Anonymous says:

    Finally, we see something Made-in-USA is exported to China.

  16. Anonymous says:

    I wonder if these new actions in China regarding limiting housing is an attempt to cut off any revolution?

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/china-gets-tough-on-property-speculators/article1922762/

    …in Beijing, legally registered residents are now no longer permitted to buy more than two homes, while those without Beijing registration cannot buy property at all unless they can prove they have paid taxes there for five years.

    In Shanghai, those without residency documents must pay taxes in the city for a year, and all second-time purchasers will now be subject to a new real-estate tax aimed at financing the building of affordable housing.

    “We can see that the government is sending a strong message – houses should return to their basics, which is to be as a shelter by function, and not a vehicle for speculation,” said Andy Zhang, managing director of the China operations for global real estate brokers Cushman & Wakefield.

  17. Anonymous says:

    i really thinkl that its time to change the cold-war view of china. no report of the US ambassodor’s appearance on the scence has been noticed, why ? an eye for an eye makes the world blind…

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