Redditor claims his licensed Asimov student film project shut down by I, Robot production

A Reddit user called capt_wink_martindale wrote a piece last month describing what he claims happened to him as a student film-maker who'd licensed the rights to an Isaac Asimov story for his thesis project, and his project was shut down due to legal intimidation from the film studio producing the I, Robot film. He does not offer any source to substantiate his allegations, but they're awfully damning, and sound -- to my ear, anyway -- plausible.

Somehow the legal team from the studio found out about a student project, in a small private college in the Midwest, with no budget, being shot in a warehouse basement, and decided to issue a cease and desist order. Basically, what that means, is that the studio’s lawyers said to us, “You’re using our property. Stop, or we’ll sue you into the stone age.” I responded by sending them the consent form from the Asimov estate, and explained that it was a student project, not a commercial venture worth litigating. I turned over our script, our shooting notes, our shot list, copies of our tapes and even the concept art drawings.
Instead of the letter recognizing our valiant efforts as students that I expected, I found myself on the tail end of a phone call that changed my life. I was contacted directly by the lead of the studio’s legal team, who explained my situation to me very clearly. He told me that I was technically in my legal right to use Isaac Asimov’s material. However, if I chose to proceed, they would file multiple lawsuits totaling over 2 million dollars against me. In the end, I might win, but it would take hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees just to fight it, but would cost them nothing more than the salaries they already pay their lawyers. It would be 10 years before any type of verdict could be levied, and by then it wouldn’t matter what the outcome was, since their film would be long since released...

This is Why I Oppose the MPAA (self.SOPA) (via JWZ)

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

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http://kyleclements.com/ Kyle Clements

This is why I don’t watch movies anymore.

I refuse to support what I consider to be an evil empire.
- Pedantic Douchebag
  
  Solution: only watch movies you steal. Sometimes I watch a stolen movie while torrenting five more. It’s luxurious!
  
  Of course, I’m kidding, and I’d never really do that, especially not while using software that makes my IP the same as that of the MPAA. Nope. That would be wrong!
digi_owl

So, they use the US court system for racketeering and coercion now?
- HahTse
  
  You sound surprised…
- http://twitter.com/samari711 samari711
  
  The technical term is Barratry
  - digi_owl
    
    Dunno, that seems to imply actual lawsuits being filed. Here we are talking about the threat of such filing.
    - wysinwyg
      
      Yeah, it’s not actually using a gun when you just point it at someone’s head and tell them to do what you say.
      - digi_owl
        
        Well i was going by the description here:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barratry
        
        and it gives the impression that one actually has to file lawsuits, unless there is something subtle about the english used that escapes me.
http://kermitwoodall.com Kermit Woodall

This doesn’t pass the smell test for me. I’m no fan of the MPAA et all, but why didn’t we hear about this when this happened? Also, it’s fairly simple for someone to passively resist this sort of legal bullying. I’ve been the subject of a patent troll lawsuit and easily, with very little effort, dragged it out for months until they settled for less than 1% of their original asking price and this was well before people shamed patent trolls on the Internet regularly. So why wouldn’t this guy drag this out, especially since he had a license? It would cost next to nothing.

I can’t find any evidence to back this story up and it seems like something should have been out there.

Kermit Woodall
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  Please don’t include your web address in your comments. Thanks.
  - http://www.xradiograph.com/ OtherMichael
    
    >Please don’t include your web address in your comments.
    
    What, why not?
    
    [URL deleted]
    - http://grumer.org/ Avram Grumer
      
      Because it makes the site more attractive to spammers, for one thing. And clutters up the conversation with irrelevant links, for another. But mostly because the moderators have said so.
      - http://www.xradiograph.com/ OtherMichael
        
        yes, it was a rhetorical joke — I had a fake URL embedded [since deleted] in my comment.
- Nathan Popham
  
  Keep in mind who it is. How many people do you think would actually know their options? He said he had no money — and as a current student I know that’s probably literal — so dragging a lawsuit out and settling for even 1% is unrealistic. He could instead have contacted an activism group for support, but only if he knew about them. The first I really heard about the EFF, the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund, and groups like them was after discovering BoingBoing and other blogs. If I didn’t know, I’d cave too. Don’t dismiss this just yet, wait and see what happens.
  - http://kermitwoodall.com Kermit Woodall
    
    It’s not like I knew what my options were back then either. But I was able to call a lawyer I had used for filing some paperwork once and ask him what I should do. And he said, in essence, “Sit on your hands, don’t worry about it, file every thing required of you by the court but only at the last possible moment, contest everything, refuse to settle until it’s worth doing or they remove you as someone not worth going after.”
    
    But that doesn’t address the other iffy parts of this story – and for all the times we take Big Media to task for not doing their job and checking sources – I have to say that Cory should have checked sources on this. At the least he’s got to reconsider reposting net rumors without verification because BoingBoing is Pretty Big Media these days. :)
    
    Kermit Woodall
    - http://www.ikaink.net Itsumishi
      
      I agree, the guys written a few paragraphs on Reddit, he could have posted photos of the letter he got, maybe some photos of the set. He’s not going to get sued for that.
      Also, your name is written at the top of your post, no need to put it at the bottom.
    - Sagodjur
      
      Did you miss the part where Cory stated, “Redditor claims…” and “he does not offer any source to substantiate his allegations…” ? Cory cited his source and provided all the information we needed to know about how unsubstantiated the claims were. What more do you want? Cory didn’t say, “this is definitely true, I swear!”
  - Steve Lord
    
    One would hope that the professor to whose office the estate attorney faxed the permission form (3rd paragraph in the linked article) would have some clue as to what to do in this situation, or at least would know to consult with the school’s lawyers. Film studio versus film student? The 800 pound gorilla wins. Film studio versus art school, college, or university? That’s a little bit fairer of a fight.
- Pedantic Douchebag
  
  Hey, what’s your name? It’s weird that I don’t know that.
  
  With Warm Regards,
  
  Pedantic Douchbag
- puppybeard
  
  I think you’re right.
  
  It’s a fantasy, and it’s a fantasy people will suspend their disbelief for, because it supports their actions.
  
  Speaking as a sceptical person who torrents the shit out of everything I can get my hands on.
http://twitter.com/hugh_dandrade Hugh D’Andrade

“He told me that I was technically in my legal right to use Isaac Asimov’s material.” That doesn’t sound right — hard to imagine a lawyer making a concession like that.

H.
- Stooge
  
  If our hero was suspended above a shark pool and the lawyer also let slip where he’d hidden the nuclear device, would you buy it then?
Rider

I don’t buy this story for one second. No lawyer would say that over the phone, and anyone in this position that actually has permission the rights would know to contact any number of groups that would jump at the chance to represent him for free. I would welcome litigation because this is the type of case that would end up getting a nice payday from the studios.
- http://shadowfirebird.tumblr.com shadowfirebird
  
  What, out of the millions of lawyers in the US, you are absolutely certain that none of them is a bullying bastard? That’s pretty amusing.
  - Dennis Krøger
    
    I thought that being a bullying bastard was a prerequisite for the license to practice law…
Jack Majewski

Not to defend the Film Industry, but spun the other way this is the story of a kid who got the phone number of someone he shouldn’t have, and managed to persuade a little old lady to give away something of value, who in turn gets her lawyer to practice outside of his field of specialty, possibly producing a document of dubious legality.

I’d really love to see what that written consent says. I guess there’s a lot of this story that makes me suspicious.
- http://www.ikaink.net Itsumishi
  
  I don’t believe with the story, but how would the Estate Attorney of a famous author be practicing outside of his specialty by granting permission to use his works? He’s dealing with his estate, it’s pretty much the job description.
  - Mark Gisleson
    
    No, not an estate attorney. It was the lawyer for the movie company that had screen rights to one Asimov book. Everything about this story is totally credible.
    
    The attorneys’ incentive? Billable hours. There’s no more money for them to make from “I, Robot” so they’re trolling for excuses to take legal action.
harvey the rabbit

According to the writer of the screenplay that became “I, Robot” for FOX, the studio acquired the rights to the entire “I, Robot” short story collection.
http://www.screenwritersutopia.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=2713

There are nine stories in that collection, including “Reason,” on which this guy based his film. Thus FOX apparently did own the rights to his story.
- http://glitch.tl/ Michael Smith
  
  If you picked a story by Asimov at random you would be pretty unlucky to hit one of those stories, There is a lot to choose from.
taj1f

For the record, “I Robot” (the movie) was a piss-poor adaptation. I regret the time I misspent watching it.
- digi_owl
  
  Could be similar to Blade Runner, where only after the screenplay was written did someone point out certain similarities to the Philip K. Dick story.
robdobbs

Then you don’t deserve to make your movie.

You should have fed them a line: Deny Deny Deny then, like we all learned from Nike, just do it anyway.

Sure, they might sue you. But in this day and age, one can plead their case to the interwebs of public opinion and the masses will protect/support you if you’re doing something worthy.
Robert Carlsen

It’s time to use the power of the internet to make blood-suckers like that regret their actions, If the internet can topple dictators, it can influence these bullies. If a huge number of people boycott their products, they’ll change their tune.
http://twitter.com/peterdstern Peter

If this is true, I genuinely do not understand why he would shut down his production. What’s the worst that happens? They get an injunction against him to bar him from distributing it? He distributes it and ends up having to give them the money? This mostly sounds like he got a real quick education in how he wasn’t cut out for the business because it’s not like the legal issues of intellectual property aren’t part and parcel of making movies for the mass market. I just don’t understand why someone who supposedly went to the effort of persistently hounding people to get the rights for the movie just gave up the moment he was threatened with having to do the legal paperwork of defending those rights.
Ramone

Make the movie anyway. Blog about the whole thing. Let them take him to court. And let a judge throw the whole thing out anyway.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Iaminnocenttheblood-Ofthisjustmanyouseetoit/100002857705077 Iaminnocenttheblood Ofthisjust

The courts legally decide copyright, btw.

Case in point, “Marvelman” aka “Miracleman”. They lost a lawsuit against the owners of Shazam trying to get it into the states on pure bias against foreigners, they did prove technically I heard that the idea/character was patented earlier than Captain Marvel.

I think a real turnaround would be say an informed defendant and an informed jury.

Lets say Shyster of “Paristes and maggots co” sues a YouTube user who imports an AMV of an Anime and his favorite prog rock band…

So Shyster does the legal blackmail. But he doesn’t work FOR either the Prog Rock band’s label nor the Animation co. He just wants the money and will then write 99.9% to “Legal Costs” even if his legal blackmail gets a few thousand for the “Cost” of an email…

But then the defendant goes. “You the jury decide the Truth here. I say I own the copyrights to these works. Not because I think I can prove that, but because this person suing me is despicable and he doesn’t deserve to own them!”

The jury could work the counter-claim and say, “Not guilty, you the defendant DO own these properties!”

Now, while in such a situation I’d not start burning CDs and selling DVDs etc. or anything. But it would be a legal claim on the properties. Perhaps these companies use maggots like these copyright trolls like law enforcement uses bounty hunters, an air of plausible deniability, but that is unlikely. More likely the Shyster did massive damage to giant corporations by trying himself to parasite off of their works! They have stocks/investors/other media contracts that can be thrown into chaos by this. They’ll go rabid on the Shyster and probably “Buy” back their properties for a token fee, like limited individual use- it’d go viral on YouTube and they’d be entitled to Advertising royalties.
- http://twitter.com/peterdstern Peter
  
  Marvelman was renamed Miracleman because Marvel had successfully established its trademark of the word Marvel in comics. Years earlier they’d forced D.C. to change the name of Captain Marvel comics on the strength of their trademark. But the decision to rename Marvelman had nothing to do with the then DC-owned Captain Marvel (who you called Shazam). Marvelman did, however, come into being because of copyright disputes between the publisher of Captain Marvel and Superman which resulted in the cancellation of the Captain Marvel comics, forcing the UK publisher of Captain Marvel comics to develop Marvelman to replace them.
  
  The Marvel trademark was also an issue in the UK and caused the publisher of Warrior magazine, where the character appeared in its second run in the 1980s, to avoid putting the character’s name on the cover in the initial issues. When he finally did start using the name Marvelman, Marvel UK hit him with a cease and desist. The publisher of Warrior magazine actually blamed those legal issues for the magazine’s cancellation, though later claimed he’d just used that as an excuse to roll up the shutters on an unprofitable operation.
  
  When Eclipse comics bought the right to republish Marvelman in the U.S. they elected to avoid the inevitable confrontation with Marvel if they used the name Marvelman for the title and just renamed the character.
Palomino

I love these blasts-from-the-pasts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic-Tac-Dough
http://disqus.com/Kimmoth/ Kimmo

Funny, last time the MPAA came up here, I found myself calling them bullies.

Oh well, +1 me
puppybeard

While it’s conceivable that such a thing could happen, this could just be someone’s fantasy.

Is there a real person standing by these claims, and do they have any documentary evidence from production, photos, scripts, etc?

” Without a thesis project, I wasn’t equipped to apply to grad schools, and by the time I’d recuperated from the costs I’d incurred, I’d already been forced to accept a different career path, and rearranged my life to fit.”

Sorry but that sounds like nonsense to me. It’s film, not engineering, and a post-grad is worth the square root of fuck all in the film industry, where experience, reputation and skill are what get you hired.

If this person really was in film school, it must have been the only film school in the world that doesn’t
a) teach about copyright and
b) have specialists to help with copyright

My instinct tells me that this a fantasy piece written by someone who feels the need to justify file-sharing. I torrent tons of films and like most people, I don’t have a complex about it. If I believed this, I could use it to back up my actions, but I don’t believe it.
http://www.jefharris.net Jef Harris

There should be a kickstarter for legal funds, get enough to take on these guys, bring it to the public.
Rev Eponym

In such a position as the Reddit OP, I would smile slightly and say, “Please explain to me exactly why your multimillion dollar operation feels threatened by a low-budget student film, which will never garner the notice that yours will?” I wouldn’t pursue legal action, I would simply want them to have to spell out to me, honestly, how they and their clients were motivated by selfish greed, in so many words. Then I’d be able to quote them.