Spammers discuss breaking Craigslist verification system

There's something grimly fascinating about this Blackhatworld forum in which spammers are discussing with comradely zest the best means of overcoming the new Craigslist phone-verification technique that prevents duplicate listings being posted in CL forums. There's the whole spectrum of netly emotion here: technical generosity; greed; self-pity; quick anger. They could be talking about debugging a video-driver, except that they're talking about turning a beautiful community service into a pile of shit.

They've just started doing this in the computer services section too. I'm seriously freaking out now because I make the majority of my income off that section. I'm a freelance designer.

I don't know how I'm going to pay my bills if I can't find a way around this. Anyone have a suggestion? Please?

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• [Takuan]

  we need to see some twenty year with no parole spammer sentencing. Agitate for it.

• [brownbat]

  I’ve been reading a lot of Kurzweil recently. He makes me pessimistic and optimistic.

  Pessimistic, because the hope of telling a computer from a human is going to be basically impossible within years. Optimistic, because at the Singularity, as soon as something becomes useful enough to be widely adopted, and thus targeted by spammers, it will already be hopelessly outdated.

• [eric schrepel]

  Let’s see, in the last 2 years I’ve bought and sold a few computers, found lasting romance, gotten rid of piles of junk, found and shared garden plants, people to rideshare on car trips, hooked up with 3 bands. And it cost me what? $0.

  I can only thank the craigslist folk for doing everything they can to make a workable community system that only makes income from job postings.

  Personally, I’d like to stick a gordian worm into the spammers and watch them jump in a pool in a few months.

• [Anonymous]

  In defense of BHW, there are plenty of forum topics dedicated to SEO and web design, and dozens of other topics that help people to work online through affiliate marketing.

  Sure, many try to get rich quick through CL Spamming, but thats pretty much a flash in the pan, newbie method…by the time one learns all the techniques to get by CL anti-spam protocols they could have easily used the effort to build a much stronger non expiring network driven by real content in profitable keywords…I read BHW frequently and am not a CL spammer, I am also a freelance Graphic designer who uses his own design skills to assist in my web creations that are currently netting about 100-120/per day every day.

  Its a shame that CL is ruined for multiple postings as I personally have legitimate job opportunities, and items for sale in excess of teh amount of postings that Cl will allow me, so i use BHW techniques to proceed with this (I Offer employment services and do the job searches/applicant screenings for many companies across the nation…real jobs just happen that the businesses I work with dont have time to look through email/spam after posting to CL or may not even know how to!)

  And there really isnt ANY Spam on the forum! It is heavily moderated, there are ads, but the ads are for programs that have been tested and confirmed by moderators and are actually in demand by the readers of the forum…those that specialize in mass advertisemnet arent easily tricked by it.

  best of luck, you should be able to make a living as a freelancer w/o relying on Craigslist..as someone else said, think outside the box, and think multiple income streams!

• [cubey]

  It’s always easier to destroy than to create.

• [mesrop]

  There freaking out… completely… Finally a drop of payback in an ocean of spam good job CL!

• [help i cant comfirm my username themelonbread]

  @contrasoma: The best I can dig up from memory is “poetic justice”. Is that it?

• [Jeff]

  This is just a good example of why internet II is evolving: the need for more security (and bandwidth). Spammers are not unlike aggressive bacteria that find their way into the body because of inherent vulnerability in the body’s defenses. The “it should all be free” internet has led to serious infections. I’m not sure you can have a free and open internet and not have it vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, which includes spam. But, Security of the sort that is required to help put a stop to spammers and the like would most likely cross the lines of what someone like Cory might consider the philosophical core-value boundaries of the internet. The kind of security that is required would be similar to that which he employs on his own site. And that kind of security eats up resources and is for the most part dependant on humans. Which humans will we trust to run net security the way it really needs to be done? The FBI? Who’s going to track down internet criminals and prosecute them unless the feds or another agency (such as the IISA: International Internet Security Agency), has certain abilities that may seem too 1984-ish?

• [rrsafety]

  I used Craigs List to find a great web designer.

  I got about 120 resume/portfolios (about 35 of them from India) but about 15 of them were from New England and a number of them were outstanding.

  So for the above poster #17 who asked “why would anyone use Craigs List for anything serious” I would simply say: Get a clue.

• [hohum]

  I, too, am a freelance designer. And I’d rather be unable to pay my bills than resort to spamming. Shame.

• [SoftmasterG]

  Spammers are becoming a problem and some of them have 89 ads up at one time! I wrote a little web app that makes it easier to deal with these mega-spammers.

  http://www.jazzstudies.us:81/antispam.aspx

  It uses standard CL searches to create a list of flag links so that you can flag each ad it also has a flag all feature that will hit the list automatically but that only works in FireFox.

  An example of a spammer in the newyork area:

  http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/cps?query=a29webdesign

• [Strophe]

  What a trippy place. It’s weird to see forum avatars, like the little Bandito Benjamin Franklin, that openly express a sort of outlaw status.

  Besides the fact that there is no password required to view the forums, does it seem strange that a place called “Black Hat World” would have Digg, etc. buttons at the end of each post? Wouldn’t that conceivably lead to attention that they don’t want? Or do I fail at Black-hattery?

• [Tyler]

  There’s been a revolt of sorts in the South Florida craigslist in the Arts/Media section. Designers are getting fed up with people wage phishing and have started flagging anyone who fails to leave any company or viable contact info. I agree with them, since I work down here and everyone wants you to be an IT and a Graphic Designer and a web designer for $14 an hour. It’s ridiculous. I’d love to see more oversite over the job postings on CL.

• [mdhatter]

  #12 – I third the anthill, Plus, no sunblock.

• [Elysianartist]

  Are those BHW peeps really making any money doing, uhm whatever it is they are doing, and if so…..how!??

• [Apreche]

  I don’t know how I’m going to pay my bills if I can’t find a way around this. Anyone have a suggestion? Please?

  Here’s my suggestion. Post your resume on Craigslist and get a job!

• [Pipenta]

  Nores,

  Craigslist destroyed local newspapers? You jest. They did that to themselves very handily.

  Here’s some homework reading for you:

  The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian

  When you get done with it, we will expect a short pithy essay on why Craigslist did not kill local newspapers.

• [sirdook]

  So, um, why not use the methods described in the Spammer forums to fill the board with spam messages, thereby disrupting that community?

  In my case the answers is: too lazy to learn how.
  But surely that doesn’t apply to everyone here.

• [Anonymous]

  SoftmasterG, so you the asshole that flags people ads. You mess up a lot of people money that way. Get a real hobby and stop flagging people ads!

• [Joe MommaSan]

  I got a kick out of this one:

  I cannot imagine how many people are going to really be hurting because of this change.

  Yeah, that really breaks my heart.

  Seriously, they could stake spammers out on anthills and it wouldn’t bother me in the least.

• [Nores]

  “It’s always easier to destroy than to create.”

  Yeah, sort of the way Craigslist destroyed local newspaper classifieds, thus largely destroying local newspapers entirely, and once that was done turned itself into a useless cesspit.

  Seriously, why does anyone use Craiglist for anything serious? It’s choked with spam and scams, and yet whenever I actually try to click on a posting – usually for freelance gigs – it’s been flagged for removal by the people who got to it first. I don’t even try anymore. But that doesn’t mean the newspapers are coming back.

• [Skep]

  Hmm…so how does the blackhat forum keep people from spamming???? Mods?

• [the_coffeegirl]

  Spammers make me mad. I was so happy when Craig’s list started with the nominal fee for job postings in my market. I was really annoyed when I after careful consideration of postings and content, I actually sent my entire resume to a spammer.
  Sure, we all gotta pay the bills, but do they have to make it so hard for the rest of us to find jobs that pay our bills?

• [OM]

  “It’s always easier to destroy than to create.”

  …If it were, then there’d be a *LOT* of dead spammers.

• [Pinwiz]

  If Craigslist is the mess that everyone says it is, then where should an aspiring freelancer post their advertisements?

  I’m not defending the spammers, but if I could find a way without hacking the system that I could post my legitimate ad once a day just to keep it visible in the chaff I’d be willing to make use of it. I’m not an evil person, and I resent the implication.

• [Antinous]

  Moderator note – I approved anonymous at #40 for entertainment value only.

• [Contrasoma]

  The thread gets pretty meta once random people start hawking their “low-cost solutions” to this issue and posting dodgy links (I know there’s a colloquialism for this practice but it eludes me at the moment).

  In all seriousness, as a vaguely moral being with at least an ounce of scruples and dignity I’ve no idea if this is common practice in spamming circles, but it looks frakkin’ hilarious from the outside.

• [aston12]

  Apparently you have no Idea what spamming means. And although I would like to make it clear that I do not and will not support spamming( it pisses me off too) ,it hurts me to see how you are so stereotyped….

  that forum is way way more than just Cragislist ‘spamming’.. it teaches you ways to earn money online.. money in amounts you could probably never do with a real job…

• [william]

  Pinwiz: To everybody else, you are part of the chaff.

  Every spammer I’ve ever talked to thinks that their message is special and different and ok to post, because it’s what they believe they need to do. Whether they are clueless or evil is a matter for theologians, but either way they destroy community forums.

  If you want to make it as a freelancer, develop relationships with clients and people who know clients. Present at events. Write useful articles. Do favors for people on the way up. Develop a great portfolio and great references. Provide value to your community.

  Just posting your ad on Craigslist over and over is a sign you should go back to a day job.

• [william]

  Looks like BlackHatWorld has taken down the discussion. Did anybody save a copy?

• [brcguy]

  It seems like a lot of the posts in that form ARE spam. Of course there’s no honor among thieves.

  I like how to get better at spamming you have to dig through piles and piles of spam to find your information. Unfortunately, that’s how the entire internet will end up if these “people” get their way.

  I agree with the dude who suggests we stake them all to anthills. Don’t forget to put honey on their junk first.

• [controversy]

  The site is a little controversial but if you’re into making money online, it’s one of the best places around (if not the best). Also to the original poster who says he’s a designer, why don’t you post your portfolio at BHW? You might get more customers and exposure. The internet is such a big place that to put all your eggs in one basket (craigslist), is just asking for trouble. Join BHW and learn how to make multiple streams of income.

  Controversy Creates Cash. If you can’t/don’t think outside the box you’ll always be stuck inside the box.

• [controversy]

  I forgot to mention. The forum is public because there is nothing illegal going on. Some of the techniques are outside of the norm, but they aren’t breaking any laws. It’s a community about sharing.

• [evpstud]

  There are perfectly legitimate places to post portfolio’s as a freelancer.

  Some sites for example are RentaCoder, GetAFreeLancer, ScriptLance, Guru.com, and Elance.

  Deals are made on these sites every day without spamming classifieds. So if anybody wants to copy and paste this info to the poor sap grumbling about craigslist, feel free.

• [Avram]

  Nores #17, Craig’s List destroyed newspaper classifieds by out-competing them — doing a better job of providing the same service. There’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s no comparison with spammers coming in and clogging up a useful service with crap.

  I found a great apartment and a good job through Craig’s List a few years back. I’m sorry to hear spammers have made that more difficult.

• [Unanimous Cowherd]

  “I’m seriously freaking out now because I make the majority of my income off that section.
  Yeah. That’s equivalent to saying “I’m a thief and now they installed better locks on the doors to the money palace where I steal your money and now I can’t steal too good no more.” Boo hoo.
  You, sir, are not a “freelance designer”. You are a “freelance scum bucket”. Good day.
  I said good day to you, sir!

• [dainel]

  You know what, freelancers who can no longer post on craig’s list can post on the black hat forum. They have sections for that. :-)

• [Nores]

  #29

  Oh I couldn’t possibly write a short, pithy essay on a topic I’ve carefully researched for less than, oh, $3.16 plus one and a half cents per thousand pageviews. :-)

• [shutz]

  I found my current apartment through Craigslist. And I do mean this past spring, not years ago.

  The site still works, and I commend them for trying to curb spam.

  Someone really should try to get enough info on each of the spammers in that forum so we can flood them with our own spam. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

• [Antinous]

  If you want to make it as a freelancer, develop relationships with clients and people who know clients. Present at events. Write useful articles. Do favors for people on the way up. Develop a great portfolio and great references. Provide value to your community.

  It’s the same reason that we ask BB commenters to put their blog link on their profile page, rather than in their comments. If you’re interesting, people will look you up. If you’re not, please stop asking for attention.

• [Evil Jim]

  Makes me want to join & post “Ah ha! I caught you!” type messages in their little forum.

  *grumblelousyspammersgrumble*

• [mrlee386]

  The black hat forum is about sharing ideas that keep the “creative juices” flowing.

  • [Antinous]

    Is ‘creative juices’ a euphemism for slime?

• [MITTZNZ]

  I’d like to find out how many of those comments are SPAM.