Mark Frauenfelder at 2:06 pm Wed, Sep 3, 2008
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Security guards break in their nightsticks on a banner-waving soccer fan running across the arena, prompting players and fans to storm the field and beat up the guards.
Mark Frauenfelder is the founder of Boing Boing and the editor-in-chief of MAKE and Cool Tools. Twitter: @frauenfelder. His latest book is Made by Hand: My Adventures in the World of DIY
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I am pretty surprised that #33 got dismevowled considering the content of the post from the moderator. jesting aside.
It’s injustice met with outrage. It turned wrong when the crowd continued on even thought the cops started running. The initial show of solidarity was enough but the violence just closed the circle.
I was hoping in the 4 years that have followed there might be more info about this. This was all I could find:
The guard doing the jabbing at least lost his job in addition to the boot he gets at 1.16.
The guy who tried to stop him who eventually got the kicking? I dunno.
If you watch the video, you’ll see that one asshole starts jabbing the guy, then another seems to tell him to cut it out. As far as I can tell the coward doing the jabbing takes off across the field leaving his friend behind to get the shit beat out of him.
It was nice to see some people stand up for the guy but the end result was pretty disgusting. The video is a pretty interesting commentary on power and violence.
At first four guys have power over one, and one guy abuses it. Then hundreds of people have power over four and they do the same. Mixed in are a few non-violent people, thank God, sticking up for whoever is getting mobbed at the moment.
What do you think the three security guards said to that douche the next day? “Hey great call poking that guy with your baton last night. Thanks for running away while I got stomped”.
@52, 59, 66 –
The use of the word “hooligan” here is totally inapproporiate – roughly on a par with calling the security guards “fascists”, in fact. Hooligans are organised groups of people who attend sports events solely for the purpose of causing violence. The mob in that clip were people who attended a sports event to watch sport, and were then confronted by one of their own getting the tar beaten out of him.
Their response was certainly gratuitous and unpleasant, but it wasn’t hooliganism. Abuse of the word “hooliganism” is a prickly subject with many in the UK; to find out why, google “Hillsborough Disaster”, with particular reference to “The Sun newspaper controversy”.
the people charged the field because the thugs overplayed their hand. By torturing a helpless man they were saying to the whole audience: “Fuck you. We can do this to him, we can do this to you. Anytime we want. Object and we will do the same to you or kill you.” Fools they were, they forgot that threats must carry credible force.
If Borges wrote it, the arena would be inside another, larger arena full of angry fans about to intervene by rushing the interior arena..
So many people here assume that the mob speaks for them. I’ve seen mobs, and they speak for no one, and they stand for nothing except mindless, misdirected anger.
I like to think that Boingboing represents a mentality that has more hope and dignity than a mob. I also like to think that it promotes rational, reasonable, positive solutions to problems.
If a cop harasses / roughs up someone, videotape it, protest it, but beating up the cop? Like #33 said- two wrongs…
a well earned shit-kicking. If they had stopped with binding and dragging away they would have walked off the field with their prey with nothing more than some verbal abuse. But noooo! Something universal about monkey behaviour when you give it a uniform and club. They were sooo excited about the backroom torture session coming up that they had to start early. Hope the one on the ground had to eat through a straw for three months.
The cop who was using his nightstick isn’t the cop who got stomped on by the mob. The best I can tell, the jerk-cop was one of the first to sprint towards the tunnel and get off the field, presumably unscathed.
Also, I didn’t notice any players fighting the cops. It looked like they tried to slow the fans down when they initially broke towards the cops, but realized they weren’t going to stop and just got the heck out of the way.
This is my dream for the world.
If you were lying on the ground with eight hundred pounds of mindless aggression sitting on your head and smashing you in the face with a hammer, for the crime of running across a field with a sign and friendly intent – would you like the people watching to file papers or DO SOMETHING?
Yes the Mob can be dangerous. It can also mobilize the tribe to pluck a drowning child from a raging river. Or stone a leopard to death. Ook ook ook!
Oh, OK. THIS is why cops need .50 cal machine guns?
the people charged the field because the thugs overplayed their hand. By torturing a helpless man they were saying to the whole audience: “Fuck you. We can do this to him, we can do this to you. Anytime we want. Object and we will do the same to you or kill you.”
They used too much force.
I don’t think the message was quite as histrionic as you state…..I would assume the message (however badly implemented was “Dn’t vlt th lw nd th rgltns f th prprty wnr nd prhps ndngr thrs by trsspssng n th fld”
Now the MOB was closer to killing somebody.
Guy trespassed (ask Monica Seles how fun it is when fans do that)
Guards used too much force.
Crowd used too much force.
No heroes here….just a cycle of violating people.
@7 No, it is not “one gang pile-up on another” — it is a bunch of citizens coming to the aid of another citizen after 4 cop (type persons) proceed to beat that citizen with billy clubs for the committing the stupid but harmless act of running across a field with a flag.
Nah, this is from Portugal. Different accent.
I thought the same thing as Secret Life when I saw it.
Fight the power. Within reason, of course. ;-)
Notice how the other security guards stick around to help their comrade? Ooops, I forgot that Chicken S**t was one of the job requirements.
Yeah, Portugal, you can tell from the sideline billboards. Sumol is a Portuguese drink brand.
I absolutely agree. We don’t know what happened. A cop has every right to attack a subdued man if the cop feels he was personally offended. True professional cops follow their emotions and attack those who get under their skin.
now if they would only do that to the riot cops at any of the WTO demonstrations, the world would be a better place.
â€¦and then they all went home and on monday they worked to feed the kids and the shareholders.
Chorske 111: What I really want to know is, why the following post was edited? Unlike many of the posts that did not get devowelled, it contained no swear words, and it didn’t celebrate a horribly violent event- it simply expressed an opinion that is apparently unwelcome on Boingboing. I have to admit, I’m disappointed.
I’m late to this party. It was fascinating to read the whole thread after the fact. For what it’s worth, I agree with Cpt. Tim in most respects. I’m glad no one actually got seriously hurt, and I’m VERY glad the stick-wielding guard was fired.
This happen in Portugal in 2005. The red players are from benfica Lisbone.
“Don’t violate the law”
some can’t see the greater law. A man running across a field gets batons punched into him, probably his head as well. Have you ever been the recipient of such a blow? Even once? Do you understand that a basic principle in stick fighting is to use a butt strike to the temple when you wish to kill quickly? The modified tonfa they used are from a tradition of mortal combat of underarmed farmer against sword wielding professional soldiers. Butt strikes aimed at the face blind and maim and remove teeth in a split second. The flesh tears with a drawing strike, nerves are permanently damaged with a targeted blow. Ribs splinter, vertebrae crush. An adult male’s arm’s strength driving a one centimeter contact area creates a hammer blow force in less than a forearms length of movement. Grinding and releasing force using the tip yawara-jutsu style can instantly bring enough pain to empty your bowels and bladder while you are too convulsed to manage a scream.
You have no idea of what think you saw.
I was hoping those fans would then hop out of the soccer video and run across the boingboing page to attack that grinning woman in the Microsoft “Mojave Experiment” ad to the right.
I don’t think they were thinking! I think they forgot people were watching. Maybe the bald guy tells the other one to stop because he remembers people are watching. They’ll probably think next time.
Nice straw man arguments, Fred. The guy with the sign got some unwarranted pokes with nightsticks. Not at full power, and not remotely at full extension. He was not lying unconscious while 20-25 people stomped him. Yes, the latter would be considered attempted murder.
As I said before, what the officers did was uncalled for. Hardly necessary, and way over what was required to cuff and subdue a person…but no-one could ever say there was a mob stomping him.
I don’t care WHO the person is who cannot defend. I don’t care how much money they make, or where they work (or are unemployed), what their heritage or background. Doesn’t matter. My sympathy is not confined to uniforms or lack thereof and never has been. I don’t consider protesting civilians to be “hippies” or liberals – and above all, I don’t consider any person fair game for an attack that is intended to damage, maim or murder.
Cop or not. Claiming that “well they did it first” is a child’s argument. The one does not excuse the other.
Neither was an appropriate reaction.
Well played #12, Mine too, mine too.
Some additional info:
Soccer Match Fight – Switzerland vs. Portugal
And a comment from that video:
>> it was a friendly training game between Etoile Carouge and Benfica in Geneva.A Portuguese supporter tried to reach in friendly manner the goalkeeper from Benfica but the Swiss police treated him as a potentially murder,probably trying to kill him.The people with Porto uniforms and others were spectators who entered the field to rescue their compatriot
The crawl at the bottom of the CNN feed says it was in Geneva. Also, the crawl mentions the Kobe Bryant case, so this took place in 2004.
The crawl also mentions fifty students being kidnapped in Kathmandu, which happened on July 19, 2004.
And the crawl says Saturday which was July 17, 2004.
This thread seems to confirm that the match took place on July 17, 2004.
Hard to find info beyond that.
>> The security guard who overreacted was fired today (July 19, 2004).
You know what is amazing? I was at the Gay Pride Parade in Paris over the summer and the only cops I saw anywhere were on a float, dancing in their underwear.
1000s of people in the parade, 1000s more watching, no anti-open container laws, everyone drinking bottles of wine in the streets, people smoking hashish…the most conservative political party in France even had a float in the parade.
No cops on the streets, no riot gear, no “keeping the peace”, no sign of police presence anywhere. Children and old people dancing. Fun was had by all.
We don’t need cops as much as cops like to think we need cops.
There’s a YouTube video of someone pulling a cop off a protestor during the RNC this week.
As more people see and get angry about various cases of excessive police force (so easily disseminated on the internet), I predict we will see a growing number of incidents where citizens fight back.
“Not at full power, and not remotely at full extension”
I can easily snap a 3″x4″x8″ concrete brick in two with a metal baton jab that travels 8″. Would you like to see?
Just saw your comment Takuan, very descriptive and accurate. This is why the riot police formation is a shuffling chevron poking with the butt end of the baton as they advance.
Ahhhh, sweet karma.
shit, that last part got sent before i was done typing.
“It can also mobilize the tribe to pluck a drowning child from a raging river.”
just invest in a good border collie.
“Or stone a leopard to death.”
for just hanging out?
Either way i wouldn’t describe large groupings of people banding together for a positive purpose “mobs”
the video is freezing up so i’m not able to view it a second time at the moment.
but i only saw one guard use a club and the other guard looked like he was trying to get him to stop. I could be wrong, i wish i could get this to play again.
but if thats the case then i feel bad that the outcome of this is a “look how amusing it is when the men in black get the shit kicked out of them”
I understand the appeal of come-uppances. but violence isn’t a wonderful thing.
Secret life – that’s blasphemy.
…You know, if more citizens would rally against the hire-a-nazis like this here in the US, there’d be a lot less stories like this for Boing Boing to have to expose. The less trailer trash follies, the more room for Steampunk threads :-)
(Still, the thugs got what they deserved!)
your definition of “hanging out” informs your views on other topics, i believe.
This was in July 2004
This was in Switzerland
This was a friendly match between the Portuguese team Benfica and the local team “Ã‰toile Carouge”.
The “law enforcement agents” are NOT cops – They are employees of a private security firm hired by the local club.
Even though this happened in good old Switzerland it is very likely that most participants of the tragedy are Portuguese, including the initial sprinter, most of the rescuing audience and perhaps some of the security men. (Whenever Benfica plays in the golden country, the vast portuguese immigrant community attends in mass)
Remember this video the next time you have to go through customs in the US…
This page translates (French to English) “supporter” into “bear.”
>> It began after a bear entered the ground and that security agents have violently beaten.
This has all been a terrible mix-up.
The dude with the sign was no dude at all, but rather a bear disguised as a man. The security guards were not fooled by the sign (“Nice try, Yogi”) and immediately sprang into action to prevent the goalie’s mauling. Thus the beating was entirely justified. Reports are unconfirmed at this point that the bear/supporter was found to have smuggled five kilos of salmonberries in his rectum.
Crackdowns on bear-on-pitch incidents completely appropriate, IMHO. I don’t have any sympathy for bears. They’ve caused enough heartache and misery in our world.
Odds are Rodney King was a bear too.
We’re through the looking glass, people.
For every action-response-response-etc. there was at least one alternative which would probably have lead to a different outcome.
Remove the narrative, and what you have is a response pattern dependent on more numbers than the other guy. Pretty primitive, when you think about it.
One of the ‘fellow citizens rushing in common defence’ did employ a typical human attack method though – the running kick & evade. Lowest risk, highest reward tactic.
Every time a stupid security card tells me I can’t take photographs in a public space I want to swarm him and beat the sh-t out of him too! I almost hate saying this but those a–holes got what they deserved!
enochrewt said: So BB readers think that two wrongs make a right? What a sad commentary on people that think the’re so righteous.
I say: This stuff happens all the time, but sometimes people just stand around and watch a man get beat to death. Sometimes the crowd comes in and breaks it up, saving a man’s life.
In one instance, a bunch of twelve-year olds were beating a homeless man to death with stones. They had killed some homeless men the day earlier. Two guys came in and kicked the crap out of the boys. They got hurt in the process, but in this fight, no one died. In the earlier incident, the crowd watched the twelve-year old boys stone a man. The man and his child died of their wounds.
I certainly believe that two wrongs can make a right. And if I am being stabbed by a policeman after I’m already handcuffed while a crowd is watching me, I hope the crowd is this kind of crowd. In other words, I hope I don’t get the “cool, a man is being stabbed, let’s watch” passive type of crowd. I hope I get the “yo, a man is being stabbed, we are rational and we will stop this” active type of crowd.
Both types of crowds exist. And in the history of the world, policemen have assaulted or killed handcuffed people in front of both types of crowds.
Enochrewt would prefer the passive crowd if he and his family were already handcuffed, but still being beaten with a stick. At least you can say you have good ethical judgment and sound philosophical reasoning abilities while you are being pounded away. Cops are special, their brains are genetically different from civilians’ brains, and they would never beat a man to a pulp without a legitimate reason.
Holy crap. Talk about disproportionate response and escalation… The rule for punishment isn’t supposed to be ‘an eye for an eye’, it is supposed to be ‘no greater than an eye for an eye’.
I dare say that no one involved got what they deserved.
One for the good guys!
at 0:27 i think i can just barely make out what the sign says – “hey security guards, beat me senseless, please.”, the security guys complied and then the crowd was soo pleased with the guards actions that they rushed out to hug and scream thanks to them. the guards were then enthusiastically patted on the back, and because the guards were resting on the ground it was simply easier for the appreciative fans to pat them on the backs with their feet. and that other gaurd who was kicked in the groin? if you do a close up you cannot help but see the huge spider about to attack him, the adore-ing fan was merely attempting to protect the nice guard from the spider and being on a soccer field appropriately avoided getting his hands on the balls.
that is to say, its tricky to really divine what the one guard said to the other guard.
the positive purpose of stopping a murderous assault by bullies negates any mob label in this instance.
Fairly typical mob results. The guy who appears to be telling the other to stop using his nightstick is the one who gets beat up while the real culprit runs off. If that’s karma, I don’t want any part of it.
The game was between Benfica (from Portugal) and a local club, but it was played on Switzerland, not in Portugal.
S BB rdrs thnk tht tw wrngs mk rght? Wht sd cmmntry n ppl tht thnk th’r s rghts.
The cops and the crowd made the same mistake. We were all taught you don’t kick a man when he’s down. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but three things happened. The cops were wrong, the crowd sopped it, which was ok, but then the crowd did what crowds do, which ain’t ok.
Are these really my peers?
this is somewhat disterbing, here we have two clearly contrdictory reports the one on video and the one they tried to pawn off on the non attending non tv watching populace. I thought TV was a common enough peice of tech? do they think that we could realy have mistaken the 125+ lb guy for a 400lb. bear? what a bunch of rubes. if the guards were there to protect the players doesn’t it seem ironic that the first one to take a swing was a player? More disturbing due to the fact that I just caught the local news on the Rage concert last night and watched a 200+lb cop sitting on a 120-150lb guy’s chest and punch him in the face 2 times before they attempted to cuff him. nobody jumped in to help that guy out. Heck the news crew that aired it didn’t even seem to notice. nobody said a word. How did we let all the crazies get into positions of power? I’m calling my mom… I need a hug and reasurance that it’ll all go away if I just keep my eyes closed and my mouth shut.
“Enochrewt would prefer the passive crowd if he and his family were already handcuffed, but still being beaten with a stick.”
hey #91, how is that straw man coming.
I suppose i would prefer the passive crowd too? Or maybe i just see more than polar opposite responses. perhaps a intervening crowd that didn’t resort to drunken opportunistic violence. Unless you’re naive enough to believe that everyone in the crowd was sober/had the best of intentions.
I didn’t even watch the whole thing…..but here in the U.S. after reading story after story after story of police abuse and fascist thuggery I only have one thing to say. AWESOME. Simply AWESOME.
Beat those fuckin’ bullies senseless. I loved the look of terror on their faces as it dawned on them they were outnumbered. Strength in numbers people.
.One more time.
“I want to swarm him and beat the sh-t out of him too!”
lots of us feel that way, the better of us wouldn’t act on it, even if we could get away with it.
Secret Life of Plants:
Let me be the first to point out that the French police, and the Gendarmerie in particular, are amongst the most vicious civilian law-enforcement agencies in western society, today.
Their temperament, described in your example, belies their policies and tactics amongst the poorer immigrant population of Paris and Marseille. They have a history of breaking up protests / squat-parties / civil-actions with attack-dogs and savage beatings.
So the conservatives have a float in the Pride march, do not believe the hype.
>>> Of course, if that happened in America, the crowd would be clapping and cheering for the cops, and the poor soul on the ground would probably be tazered into a coma, before being charged with assaulting a police officer. <<<
I’m an American and I agree with you. Way too many Americans are violent and ignorant to the point of think that even for minor offenses, police should use excessive force. It’s a shame that many of my fellow Americans feel this way.
That video REALLY made my day.
Any society that reacts like that is very healthy indeed.
Of course, if that happened in America, the crowd would be clapping and cheering for the cops, and the poor soul on the ground would probably be tazered into a coma, before being charged with assaulting a police officer.
Which does not take away from your main point: We don’t need cops as much as cops like to think we need cops.
Here’s what would have made me happy.
The crowd pulling all the police/guards off the man with as many people as it took pinning them. people just sitting on their chests, pinning their arms and legs.
if more came to deal with the crowd, the crowd disarms those people as well.
a whole stadium of people peacefully backing up one guy who shouldn’t have been assaulted. and no matter what kind of authority those guards thought they had, the crowd shows them it means nothing without consent. Being in a position of authority is a social contract that can be revoked.
sure mine is a nice happy dream. but its better than laughing at a human being being kicked by a mob of people.
y ll wh thnk thrws r sck.
Takuan’s comment is excellent. The police *should* fear the people more than a little, and should be aware that their monopoly on violence rests on a consensus which can be revoked.
Similarly the rulers should always be aware of the headsman.
I, as a patriotic, am glad this happened, regardless of in whic h country it took place. It serves the pigs right.
“Of course, if that happened in America, the crowd would be clapping and cheering for the cops,”
thank you for your blanket assessment of how we feel about violence.
Yeah, terror is AWESOME. In all its guises.
“The guy who appears to be telling the other to stop using his nightstick”
How do make that out sherlock?
He could be egging him on, saying “hit him in the fu*cking skull, not the arm” (in portuguese :)
I generally hate to see real life violence…but to see a fascist c*nt get a kicking makes me…well all tingly.
Cpt Tim – Haven’t had the time to respond today, but have enjoyed your comments since:
However, there is more going on that just drunken opportunistic violence, though there was plenty of that. Cops are taught they must remain in total control at all times, without exception. This mentality doesn’t leave room negotiation, and creates opportunities for violence. There is a not so slowly building rage in some quarters, lacking restraint. As police brutality increases, and it will, there will soon be more places like Compton or So. Central where every one knows someone who has been a victim of these types of attacks from one side or the other. Maybe if they are going to continue to violently and indiscriminately enforce unjust laws, they should be buying hundreds of armored Humvees, instead of one APC. Never forget, cops are at war.
i’ve seen this a few times. i’ve done showings of riot porn before. i’ve got quite a collection. there’s nothing like seeing the boys in blue get theirs.
I agree, and read what i said earlier about social contract. this video is prime example why police lose their right to privacy while on the job. I’m firmly in favor of every law enforcement officers day being recorded in its entirety in every form of media availible. screw just using pistol cams.
and i think the info should be able to be subpoenaed any time a citizen files a complaint. I have more to say on that but i have to head out to a roller disco party and commit substance related felonies.
anyone who thinks it through knows the police cannot afford a war. Not all police think it through.
Point is: I wouldn’t swarm and beat some dumb, over-reacting, excessive forcing rent-a-cop. But this vid made me want to do that b/c these dudes are always trouncing on my civil liberties!
Proud to be Portuguese!
I didn’t read all the comments, so I don’t know if this was posted before, but the voice-over here is pretty interesting. I’m paraphrasing a bit but it says;
“…and then entered the security guards, out of their natural habitat, the four men dress in dark (negro lol) started to spank the man in white. Then all of the sudden blues, reds, greens, joined the white, and it’s then that things turned black. During 10 minutes the security guards got the other side of the coin.”
Man, I wish American commentators spoke that way.
i fucking LOVED this.
I know I shouldn’t but to see these little tin pot hitlers shitting theor pants was a joy.
I just wish that mr Night stick got his on camera rather than in the tunnel.
That’s not a euphimism.
Ã‰toile Carouge (Switzerland) vs SL Benfica (Portugal) friendly played 18 July 2004. Happened during the final moments of the game.
must find my Canetti Crowds and Power…
#143 not when the positive purpose overshoots the original trajectory and goes right back to being a murderous assault.
Cpt. Tim, well said.
What I saw was trespasser resisting arrest while security was applying pain compliance techniques in an effort to effect an arrest.
Do you rent out that unused space inside your head as a storage unit?
The guy with the banner wasn’t resisting arrest at any point. He certainly wasn’t doing so when he had four security guards sitting on him. By any definition, the guards had already “effected an arrest.” Jabbing him with the nightstick was gratuitous infliction of pain.
That’s why the crowd initially came to his defense. After he was freed, they went on chasing and kicking the security guards because they’d temporarily lost their tempers when they saw the guards tormenting an immobilized prisoner.
See, its precisely because of extremist behavior like this that causes riot forces to act with aggression at the first sight of trouble. Self fulfilling prophecy?
If you aren’t joking, you aren’t entirely sane. The guy with the banner should have been caught, escorted off the field, and (at most) thrown out of the game. There was no “extremist” behavior; there were four guys in uniforms sitting on one guy who briefly trespassed on the field. Even so, they could probably have gotten away with it if they hadn’t obviously been hurting him while he couldn’t move.
Stop automatically emitting ideology. This transaction is simpler than you pretend.
Anthony @81, when the fans were still in the stands, they could see what was happening down on the field. When they came down onto the field, they lost their grasp of the big picture. Instead of reacting to the rapidly changing situation, they were still reacting to the last thing they’d seen: the security guards sitting on top of the runner, poking him with their nightsticks.
Loved the line about Borges.
Maturin @85: legally speaking, you’re wrong about the sanctity and primacy of real estate ownership. But beyond that: the guy who upholds the sacredness of private property is the same one making snotty remarks because Cory talks about his books in his own weblog?
Yez illogical an’ inconsistent, an’ yer mudder dresses you funny.
Santellana @92, brilliant illustration.
no fear, common building materials are like savages, they have no community feeling and easily turn on each other. Why do you suppose we pick on them for breaking?
If this had happened in the US, Bush would have declared martial law, military would have been flown in to police the streets, and yet another Patriot Act would have immediately been ratified giving the cops leave to mow the crowd down with 80 cals.
And America would have cheered.
Cpt. Tim @98
You can’t imagine my relief at seeing your comment. I didn’t like seeing the sign guy get beaten, and I didn’t like seeing a large mob kick somebody while they were down. The crowd rushing in to restrain the guards, followed by prosecution? That would have been an excellent video. Savage beatings performed by anyone: much less awesome.
“How do make that out sherlock?”
that was my assessment of what i saw Einstein.
“I generally hate to see real life violence…”
violence is always deplorable unless its toward the people you want to see hurt huh?
This week on “Fight Back” with David Horowitz.
speaking of riot porn; we need someone talented and musical to put together a reel of RNC DNC cop highlights with the right soundtrack.
It is shocking to me that the overwhelming majority of those commenting (so far) seem to have the attitude of, “Yay! I like to see mobs kick the shit out of security guards/police.” Really?
I absolutely agree that what those guards did was wrong and they deserve to be punished severely. This isn’t the way, though. This isn’t how a civilized society behaves. An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.
South African version:
“y ll wh thnk thrws r sck.”
okay. i’ll accept that moderation with good graces. I should have worded it so that i thought the position of enjoying or laughing at a mob kicking someone is sick. I get that i could have worded this different without it seeming like a direct attack on the posters who disagreed with me.
But if i may:
Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator:
“D y rnt t tht nsd spc nsd yr hd s strg nt?”
PS: P.S. thats totally in jest. thank you for the earlier compliment.
whoa, double p.s.’s i need someone else to drive to this thing.
>> I’m calling my mom… I need a hug.
If she gives you a BEAR HUG… then you know.
I’m not saying your mom is a bear. I’m just saying you can never be too careful. You know… 9/11 and all that.
Maybe you should just skip the hug and go straight to the tasering. Just to be on the safe side.
Just taser your mom while shouting: “Are you a bear, mom?!”
Trust me. That’s the way to go.
If she resists, apply “pain techniques.”
Cop violence is unacceptable, but mob violence is worse.
What I really want to know is, why the following post was edited? Unlike many of the posts that did not get devowelled, it contained no swear words, and it didn’t celebrate a horribly violent event- it simply expressed an opinion that is apparently unwelcome on Boingboing. I have to admit, I’m disappointed.
“#33 posted by Enochrewt , September 3, 2008 3:02 PM
S BB rdrs thnk tht tw wrngs mk rght? Wht sd cmmntry n ppl tht thnk th’r s rghts.”
Good to know I get disemvowelled and then get insulted by, probably, the very same moderator. Yep. Good one. BTW: Ms. Hayden, I was being sarcastic. You know, my own slant?
Yeah, I know, it’s your sandbox.
It’s too bad, too, there’s a lot of good information here, neat geek stuff, and cool whacked out links.
I’ll leave you guys to live in your fantasy world where “you don’t need cops.” Yeah, another good one. If you get broken into, mugged, beaten, or raped: call a fireman.
Mark, What’s with the sudden emphasis on cringe/pwned videos? First the Grape electrocution and now mob kicks to the head. Is it just a slow day for more substantive posts? Or perhaps BoingBoing is merging with Break.com?
they don’t really give you a gun do they?
4 on 1 gang-tackle and THEN he goes for the nightstick. enough said.
OK…went back and watched the whole thing. Yep, it was still AWESOME. Only thing that would’ve made it more so is if the original stick jabbing goon had gotten beat with his own stick. Beaten to a bloody pulp. And I am very encouraged that the majority of BB’ers commenting feel the same way I do. I hope more cops read this thread so they know how WE THE PEOPLE really feel about them.
That moment, when people say “I see what is happening, it is not right, and I’m running over to stop it,” is one of the most beautiful moments in the human experience. It needs to happen more. We need to do this every day.
Okay, maybe the intense beating of the guards isn’t beautiful (though I have a hard time sympathizing). But what sparked it, that is beautiful.
Oh come on, none of us actually like to see people getting horribly beaten.
But you must agree that it is at least a little funny to see cops viciously ganging up on someone, and then to see the exact same thing happen to the cops seconds later.
It’s like instant karma.
Add to that the fact that we constantly read stories about cops doing horrible things to people, usually in very cowardly ways.
For example, five cops wearing heavy body armor repeatedly tazering an epileptic senior citizen until she dies.
So anyway, in the video, we see some cops, about to victimize someone else, and then, BAM, they get done to them exactly what they just tried doing to others.
It would be like if a rapist had just cornered a victim, and just as he is about to rape her, he is sodomized by three 800lbs gorillas.
I wouldn’t take any pleasure in seeing that actually happen, but I would be lying if I said there wasn’t a certain satisfaction about it.
@43 CPL TIM
Of my comments were an over generalization, but they express my frustration with American society.
Our society seems to have this sick submissive trend.
Watch for it; whenever you mention a story like this:
There will be a knee-jerk reaction from most people, siding with authority.
“Oh, well, the punk probably deserved it”
does anyone have a leopard that can just hang out at cpt. tim’s?
I absolutely agree that what those guards did was wrong and they deserve to be punished severely. This isn’t the way, though. This isn’t how a civilized society behaves.
The civilized society is going to give the guards a bonus and persecute everybody else. Screw civilized. It’s just a big word for “doing what richer people tell you”.
this is my new favorite sport! awesome video, i hate when crazies get the sauce beat out of them by The Man.
Nobody likes fascist rent-a-cops, but beating and kicking a man when he’s down is f-ed up no matter who does it – cops or mobs.
This video is disturbing both for the behavior of the guards and the behavior of the mob. Truly awful.
I guess brutality is wrong when it’s perpetrated by security forces but is OK when it’s done by a bunch of drunk hooligans?
the same mechanism that makes a young middle easterner pick up a gun. I wonder if the authors of the new police state foresaw or understood just how far their tactics would reverberate? The anger is real, large and growing and looking for outlet. Regardless of how the election goes, the socio-economic consequences of nearly a decade of looting and malicious mismanagement have created a significant reservoir of people with almost nothing left to lose.
The guy getting jabbed gets up and runs. Who knows why he got jabbed? The video doesn’t show us. Maybe he spat on the cop. Maybe he hit the cop first. Maybe he was resisting being removed from the pitch.
The cop getting stomped lies unconscious. He was not the one doing the jabbing. That seem right to you, O mighty Takuan?
My point is that too many of us are deriving too much satisfaction from this horriffic incident, and that I expected better from fellow Boingboing readers.
America + police state = tru luv always.
Americans *DO* love their cops.
Right or wrong.
The rent-a-cops in the video were reminded in the harshest manner possible that thugs like them only enjoy law enforcement powers based on the consensus of their fellow citizens. And that license can and should be revoked when they cross the line. In America, half a century of prime time must-see TV cop propaganda have all but lobotomized the populace.
That video was a sweet breath of fresh air.
When the people kick cop ass, it’s called a riot. When the cops kick the people’s ass (as has been happening at the RNC), it’s called order.
I have known cops who were the most upright and honest citizens. And I have known others who were literally gangbangers with a badge. Bragging about the ass kickings they handed out arbitrarily to their ex-girlfriend’s boyfriend or just some guy in a supermarket parking lot when they were off the clock.
Too many police in America are far more terrifying than the “bad guys” they claim to protect society from.
No, it is not “one gang pile-up on another” — it is a bunch of citizens coming to the aid of another citizen after 4 cop (type persons) proceed to beat that citizen with billy clubs for the committing the stupid but harmless act of running across a field with a flag.
This turns out not to be the case.
First, only one guy (the one with the brush cut but nothing written on the back of his jacket) was using his nightstick, from 0:28-0:32. (His buddy to the left does get one punch in at 0:30.)
It seems the players did, indeed, come to the hapless banner-waver’s aid, and had the thing broken up by 0:43. But when the ‘bunch of citizens’ caught up with the guy who tripped, the cops were *fleeing.* (It’s noteworthy that the guy who was putting in his nightstick was the first to dash, at 0:48.)
So ‘coming to his aid’ holds absolutely no water at all – considering the banner guy escaped at 0:41.
There wasn’t any justice in this.
Bonus – A Fun Sarcastic Fact: Another word for ‘a bunch of citizens’ who beat up a guy on the ground is ‘mob’!
Freakin’ awesome. Instant karma for abuse of power.
I agree with Smoakes@#48. People seeing injustice and stepping in to stop it = beautiful. There should be much more of that. The downside is that when a lot of people step in, the mob mentality seems to take over and all of a sudden it’s Lord Of The Flies. Did you see that guard on the field, apparently unconscious?
@ #49, Dequeued: Sure, I like the idea of instant karma. The analogy of the rapist sodomized by gorillas? Love it! But there is a vast difference between stopping injustice and giving the perpetrator what they gave, and a violent mob jumping in just for the sake of “gettin’ some.” Were all of those people on the field because they wanted to stop the guards from clubbing the fan? Or, were many of them there because they saw an opportunity to join a mob and beat an authority figure with impunity?
I’m not on the side of the cops here. When I see them abusing someone, I want to jump in and stop it and beat them, too. But, I don’t join (or applaud) mobs like this one. Aren’t we better than that?
Cops are cops all the world over.
I was reading Endgame (by Derrick Jensen) the other day and while watching the video remembered this. Now things make more sense.
Premise Four: Civilization is based on a clearly defined and widely accepted yet often unarticulated hierarchy. Violence done by those higher on the hierarchy to those lower is nearly always invisible, that is, unnoticed. When it is noticed, it is fully rationalized. Violence done by those lower on the hierarchy to those higher is unthinkable, and when it does occur is regarded with shock, horror, and the fetishization of the victims.
I admit, when the first player ran over and kicked a guard, I laughed.
But then it rapidly went out of all sensibility. Stomping the life out of someone who is unconscious and incapable of even rolling into a fetal position, is repugnant. Yes, what the officers did was uncalled for from what I could see. But it certainly does not excuse attempted murder.
Mob mentality rarely has a pleasant outcome.
Basically what i come away from here with is that violence is bad. but sometimes if the violence is against people who were doing something bad, you get LOLZ from it.
just like ghandi taught.
I thought the original kick by the footballer was pretty funny, but very shortly after I found it chilling, with that poor guy lying on the floor getting kicked in the head by a bunch of hooligans. Not pleasant at all.
well put Chorske
I don’t recall anyone saying we don’t need cops. It must make life pretty easy having a selective-hearing filter in your head. That way everybody turns out to be exactly what your first impressions tell you they are, and you get to be right all the time. Cool.
>>That seem right to you
They slam the kid to the ground, kneel on his back and pull his arms behind his back. If that kid didn’t resist he is not human. I am sure that experience creates panic and Adrenalin induced desire to flee. It’s a guy with a sign and the pinned him like he had a gun. That guys should have been downed, his sign taken and then let back up to his knees.
It’s too bad the wrong cop got the worst of it, but he was kneeling on the guys back and didn’t do anything until the guy had been punched and jabbed repeatedly. IT was too much to beat the guy until he was unconscious but it was great to see the crowd react that way to brutality.
Imagine if the “don’t taze me dude!” guy had been rescued by a pack of college students. It’s sad that we have such a tolerance for totalitarianism.
A lot of soul-searching and hand-wringing over the cop who was kicked into unconsciousness here.
Too bad the same sympathy is rarely extended to the “dirty hippies” and “thugs” who routinely get their heads kicked in in the name of global order. Many in the middle class world-wide subscribe to the “they had it coming” school of thought on cops handing out pepper spray, taserings, and baton related beat-downs.
One more thing… the falling, flailing masses attempting punches and kicks that fail to hit their mark is one thing. Most of them probably WERE drunk. But the player failing to land his kick?
I mean that’s his bread-and-butter. You’d think he could land a better lick than that, and place it on the right guy too (the one using the baton with impunity).
And then let’s recall who started this entire melee. Not the guy running (fans running onto a playing field hardly counts as unusual at a sporting event). It was the cops who thought with astounding arrogance that they could beat a man in front of a live crowd and on national TV.
That right there tells you all you need to know about the global police state and the general zeitgeist. That cop actually thought no one would intervene. 99% of the time, that would probably be a safe bet. Time was when that kind of beating could only take place in a backroom at the local PD. Now rent-a-cops think they can swing with wild abandon on national TV.
That’s our world in 2008.
You guys seriously think this is awesome? A review of why it’s not awesome:
1) The fan got up, totally unharmed-looking at the end, whereas the cop was clearly badly hurt
2) The cops were doing their job, the fans were not.
3) You have no idea why that cop started jabbing the guy with the club. The guy could have been biting him or something. It kind of looks like the guy tries to grab the club first, in fact.
4) There is a time-lapse in this video, so you have no idea if he was trying to fight them during that time.
I find it somewhat disturbing that this is a “wonderful thing”. But it is.
This should be required viewing for all guards and cops. It would be even better if the guards/cops were each interviewed, what led them to do what they did, did they take into consideration how the crowd would react, what was in their mind when about to be lynched, …
I never want to see harm (read: death)done to the guards for trying to do their job but I’m a very happy to see that others were willing to step in when they thought things were going too far.
The guy may have been struggling on the ground but it was 4-5 guards vs. one guy pinned on the ground, the baton was not needed.
In a way you could say that I’m a fan of the fans in this case. Good Job.
This is the double standard I was referring to in the “thugs” vs. cops paradigm…
>> Stomping the life out of someone who is unconscious and incapable of even rolling into a fetal position, is repugnant. Yes, what the officers did was uncalled for from what I could see. But it certainly does not excuse attempted murder.
The cop’s beating is described as “stomping the life out,” “repugnant,” and “attempted murder.”
The guy on the ground getting the same treatment from the rent-a-cops?
Well, that’s “uncalled for.”
Like ordering a pepsi and a sprite shows up.
“Too bad the same sympathy is rarely extended to the “dirty hippies” and “thugs”
I think most of the commenters here who are deploring violence are doing it across the board and doing a fine job of stating it that way. So please do not their take their condemnation of this violence and pair it with a perceived lack of sympathy for others elsewhere.
“And then let’s recall who started this entire melee. ”
The video is not that long, i think we remember.
Haha, I got disemvowelled for saying two wrongs don’t make a right. Way to go.
Very nice video, I love it when the fans got each other back and the players as well…
Re: #96 arkizzle
No, I am in total agreement — the French police in the railway stations totally freak me out with their berets and guns and boots — they look like the Israeli military. And there is racism in France just like in the U.S.
My only point was that I witnessed a day where thousands and thousands of people met in the streets and drank wine and danced in their underwear and there were gay people and straight people and kids and old folks and people of all colors, and there were no cops. And the world didn’t end. And the city wasn’t destroyed by what people mistakenly term “Anarchy”. In fact, it was great fun. It was liberating!
Mob violence is usually an ugly and cowardly act.
This time it was pure magic.
Hh. Nc slnt.
What I saw was trespasser resisting arrest while security was applying pain compliance techniques in an effort to effect an arrest. Then I saw soccer hooligans mob authorities doing their lawful duties.
Yeah, nice upstanding citizens there.
Lk sd, nc slnt, bt thn gn ths S bngbng nd jdgng by th nmbr f nt-plc/thrty psts, prbbly shldn’t xpct mch lss.
Hp y nt-plc-typs r bl t g thrgh lf wtht ny srt f plc ntrvntn.
You have the mode of address correct, but it is proper to pause reverentially before “Takuan” and also give some clear sign you are on your knees in the approved manner.
I did not see any of the assailants take any physical action to stop the illegal, possible murderous and completely insupportable assault. They reaped what they sowed.
History is written by the victors.
It is very disheartening to see support for either attack. One can dislike one without liking the other; it is important to realize that in rational discussion, views are rarely dichotomous, and should not be treated as such.
Hardly anyone in this video was appropriate in their actions; indeed, it can be seen as a escalating chain of inappropriate responses. The run across the field was certainly not appropriate, but was probably harmless; the appropriate response, as others have noted, would have been to catch him and escort him away. Once he was on the ground, it seems clear that enough had been done. After this, the response grew into something clearly unjustified and wantonly cruel. Seeing this, the crowd, or perhaps one person, managed to stop that beating, and cause the guards to back away; by 0:41, the situation should have been over, with the matter of punishment for the beating left to the courts. Yet, following the same route as the guards in their beating, the crowd quickly went beyond a justified response and became just as wantonly cruel, beating a guard (apparently) even more severely than the guards had initially beaten the fan.
Teresa, I interpreted Banjology (@69), when commenting on “extremist behavior,” as referring not to the initial run across the field, but to this similarity between the guards and the crowd. The guards expect thuggish behaviour, and so respond with thuggish behaviour. The crowd expects thuggish behaviour, and thus so responds with thuggish behaviour. Neither side can seem to understand when to stop.
On that note, I’m afraid I must also call out, once again, for understanding and politeness. While I am perhaps somewhat out of place for pushing these, I do believe it is what those behind Boing Boing would prefer. Insulting others for their views does little to promote a decent and useful discussion, nor is pushing everyone into two sides, where each side is expected to have certain views, appropriate. This is especially the case for those who should be here to help keep the discussion calm and courteous, rather than encourage heated disputes with their own posts.
I find it disturbing that so many people are disturbed by this comments thread. nd bg lffs t CPT. TM fr bng th n t brng p Ghnd.
dream on – the job of the guards was to clear the field. Because the failed they got beaten up what I had joined as well.
“pain compliance techniques in an effort to effect an arrest” let me guess: cop?
four guys sitting on someone already down and punching baton butts into him is “effecting an arrest”. Sick little bugger.
I hope that when I see something like this happen to me, I have the willpower and presence of mind to act with both compassion and power.
Run up to the cop, tap him on his forehead, and say “You need to do the same to me, now.”
I hope that someone else in the crowd will come with me, but if not, I hope I have the courage to do it anyway.
Now that’s true democracy.
“The cops were doing their jobs”? Not if thousands of fans watching that (and some players, too) veto that job.
There was obvious excessive force used and the cops paid the price for it. Nobody jumped out and rushed the guards until they started jabbing the guy with their nightsticks.
Four or five cops against one lunatic with a banner don’t need to use their nightsticks, and if they do may God grant they get creamed by thousands of people.
and let’s not forget the dangerous criminal here RAN ACROSS A FIELD WITH A SIGN!
Iâ€™m Portuguese, but since I donâ€™t pay any attention to soccer (believe me, over here this was most likely shown only on soccer news), I had never even heard of this.
Now, a few words on the video itself and a few short explanations on what happened (according to the report):
1st – A lot of people in the comments were mentioning the security guards as cops. They were not cops, and I think that might be the main reason people decided to stop them. Cops would NEVER do that in a stadium filled with witnesses, come on…
2nd â€“ Everyone decided that was too much force against a guy who was simply running around the field holding up a banner supporting the referee (yup, you read it right, the referee â€“ he was his family, apparently).
3rdâ€“ As the mob stormed the field and started beating up the guards, some of the fans realized that was going too far and started asking others to stop – the (professional) players (of one of the most, if not the most beloved team in the country) joined in, and the mob settled down. Good sense prevailed over madness here.
4th â€“ No one got seriously hurt. According to the report, one of the security guards was passed out for a couple of minutes but later WALKED out of the venue and the four paid a visit to the hospital.
5th â€“ No one got arrested and no charges (or lawsuits) were filed against anyone.
@#126 posted by dermoth,
I think “lil’ hooligans” and “lil’facists” would make great names for little league soccer teams. I may however, be in a minority.
Ahhh. Sorry, that just felt good.
coyotered, how long on the force?
doing their jobs? really? is that what you’re going with?
people decide to become cops (and, when they can’t, to become “security”)…
the COURTS?! are you SERIOUS!? there would be no courts involved! please! i haven’t enough hair, as it is, without having to pull it out! gah!
“Hope you anti-police-types are able to go through life without any sort of police intervention.”
Most of us haven’t gotten through life without it already, which is why we can feel some degree of satisfaction in the (at least the initial) actions of the crowd/players.
To many beatings with impunity, too many arrests of convenience, too many under-handed imobilization techniques used on aready restrained people forcing them to defend themselves or lash back in defense -leading to charges of resisting arrest.
If they do their job catching real threats to society, dealing with all citizens equally and using their given powers with appropriate humility, then we’ll all get along fine. Otherwise, fuck em.
there already is one. its in the cellar in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet. but there’s a sign.
“I can easily snap a 3″x4″x8″ concrete brick in two with a metal baton jab that travels 8″. Would you like to see?”
No. I wouldn’t enjoy watching the reactions of the other angry bricks that intervened to stop you.
“They reaped what they sowed.”
I guess since i’m also against the death penalty I just don’t subscribe to the eye for an eye philosophy. but i guess i understand it.
#91: Oh wow, I missed that one. First, no one was stabbed. Why even use that in an example?
Second, there’s a difference between restraining the the thug that was beating on a guy and beating the same thug to unconsciousness and then continuing pound on him, thus putting his life in danger.
If a group of people had run over to the police that was clubbing the guy and pulled him off Roadhouse-style while shouting “That’s enough, he’s done!” I would have been cheering with the rest of crowd.
This is my dream for America.
This isn’t people rushing to help people. Could nothing helpful be done except to exact the same violence on the perpetrators? It’s people taking an opportunity to hurt others in an arena where violence has become commonplace enough already.
Nobody’s looking all that golden here.
‘m wth #53; wht’s strkng t m s th “hrd mntlty” nd hw sy t “strks” whthr hr r thr, , lt’s rmmbr r wn vr-htng wth th Vlt/Xn clstr-fck, blw-p lk 1000 cmmnts n wrld-BB-rcrd!.?
Ds nyn ls thnk t’s gng glbl, tht s, th ntwrk s vr-htng wrld-wd.
t’ll b ht fll….
So… where did this take place?
Anyway, it’s good to see the professional thugs getting theirs for a change.
Notice the deadpan commentary.
f th sgn ws yt nthr prmtn fr Cry’s nw yng dlt nvl “Lttl Brthr”…. ppld th cps
I am wondering if the flag-waving-fan was for the home team or the visitors?
Rude and unnecessary.
Police world-wide have increasingly become private security details for corporations and the upper class. Of course, this is nothing new.
If they manage to find time in their busy schedule of generating revenue through speed traps, sting operations for victimless and non-violent crimes to buy ever more sophisticated surveillance technologies, exotic weapons to match the media manufactured “bad guys,” it is rarely to intervene on behalf of the poor.
The people in that stadium knew this full well.
Those cops were put there exclusively to protect the interests of the corporation that owns the stadium. The people in that stadium reacted appropriately (in my view) to the false assumption that a human life (the man being beaten by the cops) is less important than the integrity of some effing swath of grass.
Run on grass, have “pain techniques” applied?
Only a fascist would welcome such a world.
BTW, the cop who allegedly tried to restrain his colleague? Yes, he may well have cautioned him, but he could just as easily have been saying “not here, not in front of these people.” I think it’s a bit of a stretch to see that cop as being struck by some sort of moral qualm. Likely, he has been in many situations similar and if anything, he might caution his colleague to deliver nine blows instead of ten.
He’s no saint.
@DBARAK – My guess is Brasil, since the commentary is in Portuguese, but I think that kind of thing is less likely to happen in Portugal.
Did anyone catch what the banner said?
>> 2) The cops were doing their job, the fans were not.
I would argue exactly the opposite.
These guards would fail the Roman Legion. Look how they broke!
Yes, there’s an element of justice to this, mob or otherwise, but it still is no better than one gang pileup on another with ur-tactics, at best.
DBARAK – they’re speaking Portuguese, I would guess Brazil.
Maturin, I’m not sure if anyone is actually saying this is how society should be run.. But for once the over-bearing police-tactics backfired and the citizens watching said “no”.
@BAKANESS – Thank ya’.
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