Video footage of Sarah Palin's church

Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator

When my husband was a kid, he imagined that Assembly of God churches had a big heap of Tinkertoys in the middle of the floor, and every Sunday the congregation got together and worked on assembling God.

A general remark on Ms. Palin’s religious beliefs: When Sarah Palin ran for Mayor, part of her campaign rhetoric was that the town would finally have a Christian mayor. This came as a big surprise to the incumbent mayor, who was and is a Christian. What she was saying was that the town would have a mayor who’s The Right Kind of Christian.

We have every reason to examine her religious beliefs and practices.

Jeff @21, shouldn’t That Which Is Beyond Words make you smarter, or more insightful, or less likely to buy Thomas Kinkade prints?

Pantstravaganza @27:

I think most churches have at least some fringe element of their congregation who comes to a random week night “holy roller” type of thing.

Nope. These holy roller thrash-around-in-the-spirit doings are characteristic of charismatic pentecostal evangelical sects. I guess this is my month to point people in the direction of the Second Great Awakening, a tremendously influential event that gets left out of a lot of history books.

Consideredopinion @31: Talk about style, try sharing your parish with an immigrant Haitian community that believes the Sanctus is best sung with a rhythm section backing you up. They’re the only congregation I’ve ever seen where liturgical dancing didn’t just look good; it looked natural.

AMCCann @32, Raptorone @33, I forgive you both. Try not to require it too often.

Arkizzle @35: At minimum, it’s reading mail that’s addressed to someone else.

DCE @72: People frolicking naked in Utah? I am amazed.

BadKittyM @73: Parish priests say a lot of weird things. My husband and I walked out of a service in Martha’s Vineyard a few weeks after 9/11 when the priest preached that MV not being attacked like NYC was a sign of God’s favor.

Now, my old parish never told you how to vote — but the hymns just before election day would all have strong associations with the Civil Rights movement.

Irene Delse @76: Good point. Andrew Sullivan was right to ask how it was that Ms. Palin contentedly sat through a sermon where terrorist attacks on Israel were cited as God’s punishent of the Jews for rejecting Christ.

PDuggie @77, give it a rest.

Electric @81, the religion is not being attacked. It’s being made fun of. It’s a whole different vibe.

P96 @86, you’re wicked. Do it some more.

FredRated @87:

Palin and a majority of the leadership in America believe: 1) All land based fauna on Earth today derive from collection of animals gathered on a big boat, 2) The universe is 6,000 years old, 3) All believers will simply vanish when a 2,000 year-old ghost carpenter returns to carry them into the sky, 4) They have a two-way mind connection to the Source of All Knowledge and Truth.

Nope. Don’t fall for that one. The aggressive fundie evangelicals are forever trying to give the impression that they speak for all of Christianity. They don’t. For the record, the largest single Christian denomination in America doesn’t believe in the Rapture, looks askance at idiosyncratic personal revelations, and quibbles a bit but doesn’t quarrel with the theory of evolution.

Anthony @100:

Xeni, yeah, but have you noticed how anything pro-religion in the slightest stands to be shredded by readers and moderators alike here? The video is like chum for haters. The tolerance level for religion is super low here, so you might expect people to take offense.

Anthony, not taking offense is part of my job, but really, you should watch the generalizations.

chasnleo

@buddy66
I have the same source for Obama’s former church he attended for 20 yrs as I do for Palin’s church.

Anonymous

Having gone to Abbot Loop Christian school in Anchorage, I can tell you this is somewhat the norm. Not so much with the falling, but definately with the full on speaking in tongues and oil annointments.

Takuan

Lionel, you is a bi-got.

dhuff

I’m a mainline Christian (Episcopalian variety, if anyone’s curious) who regularly attends Sunday services, and even a lot of Christians think of the Assembly of God (AoG) as more of a cult than a church.

Real scary bunch of people :shudder::

Brett Burton

@#10 chasnleo:

Interesting that your profile is completely empty except for three comments on this post defending Palin and criticizing Obama.

jayKayEss

I’m not a fan of Palin or religion, but I don’t see any speaking in tongues going on here.

Avram

Chansleo, surely you’ve got something better to do than to pimp the Wright videos over and over again in someone else’s blog.

Lahaine @11, in other countries many people are doing the exact same thing. Pentecostalism is one of the fastest-growing global religious movements.

anthony

Teresa @119. Pardon that, please. I don’t like generalizations, either. It’s tricky sometimes to fire off a sentiment correctly.

And thank you for the comment just above your reply to me: “Nope. Don’t fall for that one…” I think that’s closer to what I wanted to get across. I find myself in the peculiar position of non-believer defending Christianity. I already quoted Hazel Motes once this month…

Xopher

Tak, yeah, maybe their content is, but you can’t get the content from that video. Would you trust a Wiccan with nukes, if you saw our worship? I wonder. We dance naked and stuff. Yet we’re very sensible and peaceful, by and large. All I’m saying is that you can’t tell whether people are trustworthy by their worship style.

Sarah Palin is scary. Not denying it. But the worship style of her church is not the issue.

vespabelle

Why don’t we go after her amazing record as an executive? Her kooky church is relevant, but is less likely to sway the undecided believers.

She raves about her executive experience but as Mayor of Wasilla she HIRED A CITY MANAGER! and as governor, with oil prices skyrocketing, she didn’t have too many budget woes.

angryhippo

“Her religious beliefs and observances vary from mine! And she sees them as being relevant to her actual life and the decisions she makes therein”

To encapsulate my beliefs quickly: We’re here to learn as much as possible and not be dicks to each other before heading into something we can’t possibly know. I’m not making national policy.

Rapture Christianity? I see it as a nihilistic religion that thinks that the here and now is to be trashed in order to bring about the apocalypse. They *want* to make national policy.

Can you understand why that might make rational people nervous?

Xopher

Or maybe you can make out the words they’re singing? I can’t.

Antinous

Lionel was a sock puppet and a nasty one, too. I have removed his name from every pylon and obelisk.

minTphresh

misti, been there dun that, drank the koolaid. here is what i think: the only thing truly ‘nutty’ about your statements is the “go mccain/palin!!” part. that is batshit nutty! and instead of “freedom of religion” how about “freedom FROM religion!” this is still ( just barely) America. Blessed Be! and Namaste’!

Keeper of the Lantern

Eh. The post-er seems surprised that this is what it’s like in a LOT of American Evangelical services. Actually, this is the part I like about Evangelism: This is where the African trance influences are very clearly manifested in American Christianity. It’s one of the reasons so many Americans feel so strongly about Christianity, but it’s also why so many of them are so easily fooled by anyone claiming to hail from that.

anthony

Also, Xeni, no offense intended.

Takuan

hear she can’t run a carwash

Versh

God, save us from the people that believe in you.

buddy66

LIONEL,

I was going to ignore this phrase the first time around and give it a pass, so to speak, but you had to go and repeat it:

I’ve seen more red, spittle-festooned faces spewing…

Lionel, that’s just awful writing. That may be the ugliest string of words I’ve seen since I was one of those teachers you have to suffer every day, but at least then the perpetrator was a child; you have no such excuse. Perhaps you should avail yourself of one of the English teachers among those red faces to assist you in developing a more felicitous turn of phrase. It’s never too late for a little self-improvement, don’t you think?

spittle-festooned faces spewing

Try saying it real fast, like, oh, “Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.” See what I mean?

minTphresh

electric, it is my god given right to mock your and all religions. go whine about it to yo mama!

p96

Xilef has a point. And I feel that it does not sway people when we are inaccurate in the descriptions.

Also the movements displayed in the video appeared to me more like the unfortunate souls with mental difficulties. It would not look good for us to be typifying her church attendees based on the short bus service. A quick scan of their site doesn’t mention anything in particular, though. Anyone else have any information on this specific service?

Anonymous

pntcstl chrch

l my crz

wht cn y xpct thgh frm crtnsm

greensteam

This is unbelievably scary. I had no idea these people existed in such numbers who believed in such stuff as the following from the Assemblies USA website:
“We believe in the baptism in the Holy Spirit as an enduement of the believer with power for service, the essential, biblical evidence of which is the speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (Acts 1:4-5, 8, 2:4, 10:44-46, 11:14-16, 19:6).

We believe in the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of Christ in the Church today (1 Cor. 12:4-11, 28; Eph. 4:7-16).
We believe in holiness of life and conduct in obedience to the command of God (1 Pet. 1:14-16; Heb. 12:14; 1 Thess. 5:23; 1 John 2:6).

We believe that deliverance from sickness, by Divine Healing is provided for in the Atonement (Isa. 53:4-5, Matt. 8:16-17, James 5:13-16).”

I really thought beliefs like that was serious MINORITY nutjob stuff in tiny homechapels or something. How could you guys vote for someone who declares openly they believe in the USA equivalent of the old “divine right of kings” that was the belief here in the middle ages? I take it from the last part of the section I quote above that these people are essentially Christian Scientists and do not believe that a conventional medical system with doctors, medecines and hospitals is needed at all??

Interestingly the UK website is toned much differently. I guess we are somewhat protected from extreme religion here.

Bender

Very disappointing video. I’ve seen more emotion by people playing video games.

Fred Rated

Palin makes Dan Quayle look like Thomas Jefferson.

buddy66

Just when I was warming up my ridicule machine…

How about them Mets?

Sister Y

But we are also free to point out that they are bat-shit crazy.

But if we started letting people do that, how could people use their delusions to avoid responsibility for their morally horrible actions?

phlavor

That looked like a Phish show just without teh funky.

Xopher

Antinous 149: Oh, good. And good riddance.

Buddy66 150: How about them Mets?

The museum is doing fine, but the opera recently had to cancel a major premiere, because they couldn’t come to terms with the composer.

Fred Rated

I lived in Alaska for a couple of years. Been all over the state. I mean ALL OVER.

There are some batshit crazy people up there. It’s like the last stop on the outcast, zealot, nutcase rail line. All of the crazies who are too extreme for a Kansas, Florida, or some other backwoods hick town end up in Alaska.

I’ve been to every state in the US (except Hawaii). Compton doesn’t scare me. East NY? No. Wasilla? Yep. Guns, booze, apocalyptic fanaticism? That’s some scary shit.

And the loonies are entirely considered rational, while the rational are considered loony. I recall once at a gas station (Fairbanks), some guy at the other pump chatting me up. Looked utterly normal, clean-cut, with his unassuming dad-wagon. We were chatting about the weather and then he just arbitrarily launches into a monologue about the “niggers” and “queers.” As if it were the most normal topic of discussion. In other circumstances (a bible camp in Tennessee comes to mind), when I’ve heard people casually toss out such epithets, it’s because they know full well those words are in common usage.

I dated a girl from Palmer in the Matanuska Valley (where Wasilla is located). The folks I met there were dysfunctional, given to extremes of addiction and fanaticism. Alaska consistently leads the nation in suicide, alcoholism, depression. It’s a haven for fugitives, extremists, grifters. And it’s a horror story of corporate and military exploitation. Corrupt from top to bottom.

Google Operation Chariot to get an idea.

The AEC buried nuclear waste indiscriminately in native lands because permafrost is… you know… PERMANENT. And the dismal state of the North Slope is entirely well known by all but the most deluded apologists (of which 95% of the American populace is comprised). Order and read Chad Kister’s books. His Web site looks like ass, but he, perhaps as much as any other, is very familiar with the sorry state of the North Slope.

http://www.chadkister.com/

I mean let’s be entirely realistic here.

Palin and a majority of the leadership in America believe: 1) All land based fauna on Earth today derive from collection of animals gathered on a big boat, 2) The universe is 6,000 years old, 3) All believers will simply vanish when a 2,000 year-old ghost carpenter returns to carry them into the sky, 4) They have a two-way mind connection to the Source of All Knowledge and Truth.

These people are batshit insane.

And they have money, weapons, and power.

pduggie

32: right on.

Pipenta

I’m all for mocking religion. I’m sick of religion. You can do any horrible thing, say any creepy horrible thing, but call it a religion and no one is supposed to be creeped out by it, no one is supposed to mention how totally whacked out it is. Feh!

I like spirituality just fine. Spirituality is a grand and good thing. There’s just damned little of it in most religions.

eti

There is nothing mocking about the original post! I think some people are being too sensitive.

buddy66

I’ll believe in the separation of church and state when American churches disagree with and oppose the government’s foreign policies. Only a few such sects are permitted as a sort of window dressing for our unrealistic founding fathers’ charming notion. Church and state are, and always have been, moieties of the same organism of control, and should be understood as such. Call it the Statechurch.

Does Gov. Palin’s church oppose the Iraq/Afghanistan war?

Does Rev. Wright’s?

Takuan

fear the old, existing machine,not the CT. They would also do it. She would be their good doggie,to replace the outgoing organ grinder’s monkey.

mdhatter

This video is just about “reading the label” before we go with this particular product (in this case, Gov. Palin as VP). It’s not chum for the water, it’s a little slice of what Gov. Palin’s reality is like, and strangely it is not one of the listed ingredients.

What we know and what we need to know are miles apart.

As a wise man almost said at your backyard bbq, beer in hand, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice….I won’t get fooled again.”

Sonofkevitivity

TAKUAN said: “hasn’t Palin already said god wants America to kill Iraqis and Iranis?”

No, she never said that.

nd trst m, B’s chrch cms crss mch wrs tht Pln’s (f ths s Plns chrch).

Takuan

We’ll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that’ all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain’t changed
‘Cause the banners, they all flown in the next war

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
No, no!

I’ll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I’ll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie

Do ya?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

There’s nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
Don’t get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

anthony

Lionel, I’m sorry but I don’t understand what you are getting at with either of your comments relating to Alaska’s population.

Stefan Jones

Believing God is behind your energy policy and earmarks is batshit crazy.

Believing God has ordained the Iraq war is just asking for more unnecessary conflicts.

THAT is what is disturbing about these videos. Palin is from a cultural and political tradition that justifies anything as God’s Will.

That is a dangerous attitude.

She is unfit for higher office.

irsean

I love that McCain picked Palin. This has been the greatest live train wreck I’ve ever seen. I swear, I’ve seen numerous Repubs going through the 5 stages of grief after hearing they picked this woman. I can see the ticket now; “Vote for the misfit Maverick and mischievious MILF.”
First off, Alaska may be the biggest state in milage but the smallest state by population. Her state’s populace is about 1/4th the size of our average Metropolitan area. Since government is about governing people and not Land…well, you figure it out.
BTW: She’s not running for President, she was picked to grab PUMAs that supported Hilary. Which will back fire (just like everything else has to the RINO’s lately…seems like the only gays coming out lately are Republicans being outed by scandal….nice) because she’s everything Hilary wasn’t.
With any luck, we’ll boot these charlatans out of office and reinstate the Bill of Rights.

Boba Fett Diop

This video does not seem especially extreme for an Assembly of God congregation, but they are an especially loopy variant of Pentecostalism, and one that has had surprisingly close connections to the White House in the last 8 years (John Ashcroft belonged to a large congregation from St. Louis).

I believe in separation of church and state, and that whatever faith one subscribes to should not disqualify one from office. However, when the faiths of particular members of government begin to intrude on actual governance, as they have in recent years (payouts to conservative churches through “faith based” initiatives, removal of information about and access to contraception from foreign aid programs, “abstinence only” sex ed, creationism in the classroom), it makes me question my faith in the constitution.

justsayin

Hey folks, I really think this crosses the line of decency. It’s one thing to post a video of a minister’s sermon spouting hate or political nonsense, but it’s another entirely to post scenes of somebody else’s worship just because it seems strange to you. Don’t rag on Pentecostals or their rituals just because Palin belongs to their church. C’mon.

anthony

@74
Xeni, yeah, but have you noticed how anything pro-religion in the slightest stands to be shredded by readers and moderators alike here?
The video is like chum for haters. The tolerance level for religion is super low here, so you might expect people to take offense.

empirechick

@55 – thank you! While I think executive experience is overrated (look at how experienced the current administration is and just how well that has served us), if she’s going to tout hers, let’s compare apples to apples:

Wasilla has a populations of 9780 (making it the 4th largest city in AK – yes, really). Go to the below census link and just look at the cities in your state that are roughly the same size. Would you consider the mayors of those places qualified to be Vice President??

http://www.city-data.com/

I’m not knocking small towns – mine is less than 2000 and I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else – I’m just sayin’…

PS: Everytime she says she has more experience than Obama & Biden, I feel compelled to yell back “AND JOHN MCCAIN”

Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator

Me, I believe in the God of the Burgess Shale.

John Coulthart

Takuan @8: Sarah Palin may be pro-Israel but her church gives over its pulpit to people like David Brickner, executive director of Jews for Jesus, a group the Anti-Defamation League accuses of â€œtargeting Jews for conversion with subterfuge and deception.â€

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

PS: God made me post these words.

Takuan

the group nature makes it fair game. Plus they are evangelical,ie: imperialists.

DaedalusAloft

Yeah, the text plainly doesn’t match the video, rather disappointing. More like gentle rocking back and forth than thrashing in my book.

The submitter may have truly intended to bring critical attention to Palin, but this kind of thing will just tend to reflect discredit on all critics by association, or just make people wish the election were over and done with already. Sigh.

Anonymous

I will be voting for Obama, so I have no political axe to grind defending Palin, but I am troubled by this faith bashing. Just because it’s not part of your world view doesn’t mean that it’s not a valid expression. There are Christian Churches in the developing world that would be considerably more raucous and unfamiliar than this and yet would in many aspects have a more radically “liberal” social agenda.

angryhippo

When someone uses their beliefs as a blueprint for how they govern, then by all means it is fair game. Especially when they are rapture, end o’ the world nutters. Step away from The Button!

kuanes

hmmm…

i am just as opposed to this woman being 1st in line for the presidency as a majority of the country.

but attacking her religious beliefs and affiliations in this manner seems a bit callous.

the video contains 17 seconds of people singing joyfully because they believe that they are communing with god and each other. no zombie-like state or babbling in tongues (though i’m sure video of that exists). unless she was there leading/participating to the fullest extent, this post was off the mark IMHO.

KnowitallguyfromGizmodo

Wll lt th ht bgn, ths st hs lnchd vry pssbl ttck t cn n th Rpblcns. Sdly, th Dmcrts wll stll ls.

DCE

As has already been intimated by others, we should be wary of criticizing religious experiences like the one evidenced here. Is their behavior really so different than that of kids at a concert? People frolicking naked in a desert in Utah? At a political rally for a candidate they believe in?

People in glass houses…

It’s the concept of religious superiority, the inerrancy of scripture and general intolerance that’s disturbing – not the display of community spirit and common experience.

BadKittyM

Hell, my parent’s Catholic church claimed Bush was put in office by God his first term and urged every of-age member of the congregation to vote for him on the second. Yes, that’s illegal and they could lose their tax-exempt status. Never stopped ‘em before. Never stopped ANY of them before, even when it has been reported and proven to have happened. That law is one of the least enforced ever. It’s a joke.

banjology

Grr, it burns me so much when some people outwardly express their religious beliefs which I disagree with! Won’t somebody think of the children?!

anthony

Days of booze and roses
Shine on us, free us all
Who is not irascible
He is no genius

A figure walks behind you
A figure walks behind you
A shadow walks behind you
A figure walks behind you

The old golden savages
Killed their philosophers
Thought brought the drought about
Something followed me out
Goes out again

greensteam

wrt 119: When you get into the realms of not jus the wrong religion but the wrong kind of one particular religion interwoven with your politics and you have only to look at Northern Ireland, Iraq and Beirut to see where that is heading..

My cousin in the USA tells me that where she lives you cannot get a public-funded job unless you are a christian and go to the ‘right’ church in her town. I find that really scary.

On a more positive note, there is a fair chance that the next UK prime minister could be an ‘out’ atheist. I wont say fingers crossed for luck, cos that would be superstitious and we rationalists dont do that do we!

striped_pants

“#34 posted by millionpoems
Freedom of religion.”

Freedom FROM religion.

ptownblazer

ntrstng, r myb t’s mr rnc nd sd, tht st tht clms t b s ppsd t cnsrshp wld bn pstrs nd dt thr cmmnts f th vws xprssd r nt n ln wth th ppl tht rn th st. ‘v bn vstng ths st fr bt sx mnths, bt th rcnt psts (ttcks) n th rpblcn prty r th frst thng t nspr m t ctlly sgn p nd pst cmmnt. f crs, gt lbld “pd strtrfr” jst bcs ‘m xprssng cntrry vw, nd gt snt cndscndng ml clmng ‘m bsclly n dt nd my ccnt hs bn sspndd. Ths s s sd. Bng Bng bvsly dsn’t prmt fr spch, nlss tht spch s n ln wth thr pltcs, nd s flly n spprt f cnsrshp. Cn y spll hypcrt.

Takuan

when I hear stories like that I feel justified in discriminating against the religious.

Fred Rated

>> How could you guys vote for someone who declares openly they believe in the USA equivalent of the old “divine right of kings” that was the belief here in the middle ages?

Well.

Three reasons.

First, because many (a majority?) in the US do truly subscribe to Old Testament values (yes, the Middle Ages would be an upgrade for them) of punishment, banishment, genocide, and superstition. A majority of Americans, Democracts included, believe the United States was placed on Earth to bring about a new global utopia in the name of Christ.

They consider that more real than the ground upon which they tread.

Second, our electoral system is compromised. A polite way of saying it’s rigged. Our votes simply do not count. There is a performance every 2-4 years where “candidates” pretend to attend to the will of the populace, but this multi-trillion dollar exploitation machine is not about to pause to consider the opinion of some janitor or school teacher in some American backwater.

Three, the divine right of kings was never revoked. It’s naive, IMO, to assume that a global network of generational wealth would ever submit its assets to the whims of the general public in an open and free election.

This Obama/McCain thing is completely irrelevant.

Yeah, blah blah blah foilhat.

Yeah, blah blah blah conspiracy.

The fuel that runs this nation is conspiracy.

MiddleOfDaIsle

I’ll just basically agree with what has been said in “defense” of the video. As an Athiest myself I have no ties to religion, but respect those that do. What I see in this video are passionate people who are moved by their faith. I can see how you might confuse bad christian rock as speaking in tongues, but as far as I can tell they were singing along.

As far as the “Praying for a pipeline”, I categorize that with the athletes all over the world that pray they win a game or thank God for helping them win, like if there was a supreme all-knowing being he would pick a team. Religious people tend to pray for things they would “like” to see happen in the world, I’m sure Obama prays that he becomes president, even though there are starving children in the world.

Takuan

nope,I can spell phony though

Takuan

@90
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090303102.html

Jake0748

“I’ve been visiting this site for about six months, but the recent posts (attacks) on the republican party are the first thing to inspire me to actually sign up and post a comment”.

Funny how often that seems to happen.

I smell a crock of shit. :P

Fred Rated

Religious beliefs held personally?

Off limits.

When applied as national policy?

Fair game.

Fundamentalists thought they could use tax dollars to subsidize their apocalyptic hallucinations as de facto state religion and have it escape scrutiny?

Please.

arkizzle

Lionel, thanks for the clarification.

I didn’t mean to question your intent at all, I just wonderd where the quote had originally come from, and if it wasn’t a decidedly distastful thing to do (taking a private communcation, and publishing it), and you happened to be the one who posted it, so I addressed my reply to you.

As Teresa answered, whether it was written to god or a friend: “At minimum, it’s reading mail that’s addressed to someone else.” This is definitely my feeling, too.

anthony

@128

You forgot to consider her current position – Governor of Alaska, I’m not sure, but I think it is one of the top 57 or 58 states – that’s gotta count for something.

Bush is the President of all the states. By your logic he would have to be the most qualified person in the US to hold office.

Xeni Jardin

Where in this blog post do I mock the religious practices of the Wasilla churchgoers? I’ve quoted text sent to us by a reader, and summarized the content of Palin’s speeches without adding any color commentary. I didn’t videotape this on a hidden camera, guys, the church members themselves shot it and uploaded it and hosted it on the church website. I am not mocking them, or their faith. I’m re-posting videos they published themselves, and took down due to lack of bandwidth. This is not faith-bashing. Stop projecting.

minTphresh

then you need go no further than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y

mdhatter

Justsayin – Don’t rag on Pentecostals or their rituals just because Palin belongs to their church.

The Rev. Wright says u r doing it wrong.

Ceiling Cat adds ‘Jesus was a community organizer’

boingboingboy

Why dnt y pst vd clp f Vd chrch nd sy “Pln rprtdly gs hr”? r bttr yt, ‘shp hr fc vr Slm Pckn’s fc whl h rds th bmb, nd stck t n ths st? Cm n, BB s bcmng pthtc. Thr s sch dlbrt slnt- yh, knw, t’s yr blg- bt rlly, frm sch cl mgzn yrs g (nd stll hv bth sss) y rlly hv bcm th nqrr f th systm f tbs.

Takuan

hasn’t Palin already said god wants America to kill Iraqis and Iranis?

grimc

@#90

“nd trst m, B’s chrch cms crss mch wrs tht Pln’s (f ths s Plns chrch).”

Well, I trust you that as far as some people are concerned Palin’s church isn’t worse. People like the founder of Jews for Jesus, who gave a sermon just two weeks ago while Palin was present, and who said that terrorist attacks in Israel was “God’s judgment” because Jews aren’t Christians.

But what do I know? I’m stupid enough to believe in evolution.

jimbuck

Clearly the 9:30am service. You want a real show, sleep in a bit and then head over to the 11:00am service.

Irene Delse

@ John Coulthart: Good point. Andrew Sullivan commented on this, too.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/anti-jewish-ter.html

Palin was sitting in church that day, apparently. I wonder if mainstream media will have the guts to ask her about it…

Keeper of the Lantern

Hey…maybe George W Bush WAS chosen by God:

He’s our punishment for meddling in the affairs of other countries for so long.

anthony

#123 MDHATTER. I agree with you that this is the issue presented in the thread. I’m sometimes guilty of attacking the abstract while the particular sneaks up behind me.

chasnleo

Ww ths s fst t tk vr yr fr bm’s chrch t cm p mch n th md, mmm dd s vd f t n ths st?

Jun Girl

Conservatives are more likely to be religious. It’s part and parcel of being a conservative:

http://www.neuropolitics.org/

Ahoj

as I am sure is more well known (since I got it off of fark) but here it the video of her asking her church to pray for a pipeline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k

t3knomanser

Can’t watch the video at work, but it reminds me of the church my parents went to when I was a teenager.

There was one woman that you could tell the time by; every Sunday, at the same point in the service, she would slip into glossolalia, interpret the “prophecy” and then be “slain in the spirit” (fall the the ground and thrash).

In defense of that church and my attendance there: the music ministry, which I played violin in, rocked hard. Sure, it was crappy Christian rocking, but it was the first “band” I played with regularly.

The Unusual Suspect

This is pretty standard stuff for any “evangelical” or “charismatic” church. Heck, I’ve seen Baptists get jiggy with it.

The statement on their website was extremely well written. One wonders if they had professional help with it. (Actually, by “wonders” I mean “deduces”.)

chopp3r

Somebody hand me a snake!

pduggie

“zombie-like” is mocking

Takuan

Evangelical faith drives Palin’s pro-Israel view
Ralph Z. Hallow (Contact)
Thursday, September 4, 2008
ST. PAUL, Minn. | Sarah Palin displays an Israeli flag in her governor’s office in Juneau, even though she has never been to the country, and attends Protestant evangelical churches that consider the preservation of the state of Israel a biblical imperative”

anthony

When we “other” people we cease to know them in a meaningful way. We make monsters of them in order to feed our hated. What follows?

If you believe it’s wrong to generalize, don’t do it. If it’s okay, don’t grouse when the others do it to you.

Dan

Well, this isn’t too crazy. I’ve seen weirder stuff at Burning Man. hahaha…

Still… These god-soaked folks terrify me.

Takuan

why? some of us LIKE zombies

chasnleo

hv nt bn bl t fnd pst bt Jrmh Wrght n bng, wht wnt n n hs chrch scrd m lt mr thn ths.

LaHaine

In other countries, people like these shown in the video would be in a mental hospital. Nobody would vote them into office where they’d get control over nuclear weapons to fight their crazy holy war to bring the apocalypse.

freshyill

The episode of South Park where Cartman pretended to be retarded so he could compete in the Special Olympics comes to mind.

Takell of the different things he tried during the training montage, and put them all together, and you get this.

Sekino

@ #43: Her religious beliefs and observances vary from mine! And she sees them as being relevant to her actual life and the decisions she makes therein! Clearly she is incapable of being president of the senate.

If she sees her religious beliefs as relevant to the decisions she makes while presiding over the senate, it IS very much a problem if I wish for a completely secular government. Therefore, judging upon it is relevant to the position and not shameless discrimination.

Considering I do want a secular leadership, that is.

SamSam

Is there not a better video? The text promises “dozens of members of the congregation speaking in tongues” — all I heard was the band “rocking” (kinda) and people half-dancing half-praying in a sort of spastic manner.

I want to be shocked, but this doesn’t quite do it for me.

(Now that video of an oil pipeline being “God’s will” is another matter…)

xilef

Is this the correct video? I had a hard time with the “clearly showing dozens of members of the congregation speaking in tongues and wandering zombie-like through the aisles, also occasionally thrashing on the floor in front of the pulpit” part. I saw a guy on stage singing and the backs of a lot of heads, no zombies, no thrashing & no tongues. I watched the 17 seconds several times, just in case someone might have been writhing in the corner of the frame…Was this video checked at GOP Vetting Emporium and Taco Stand? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-AiqGC0buo

Sutra

I don’t get it. Why go somewhere where all beliefs and attitudes of “yours” are completely indoctrinated to experience “the holy spirit”? Why dontcha just eat an eighth of shrooms and experience the holy spirit, your connection to the universe and all things that exist in liminal time, on your own terms? Speaking in tongues, dancing, and visions are still included.

n nthr nt, ths Mcdsh s lny nd lny’s shld nt b llwd t dcd wh gts t b thr #2 bcs frm wht lttl knw f ths Pln, sh’s lny t nd ‘m mrtfd tht w shr th frst thr lttrs n r srnm.

allen

I agree that Palin has a right to believe what she wants to believe- but I also believe that I have a right to know about that and take that into consideration before voting. I’m not going to mock palin about her religion, but I am also not going to vote for her. I’m a social liberal, and I am against her for the same reason that most social conservatives like her.

I’m not sold that religious ecstasy == waiting in line for an iphone == going to burning man == having a complete replica of Darth Vader’s suit in a closet at home. What is mocked here is the freakiness of Palin’s religious experience, but ALSO the fanaticism of it. Boing Boing is often a haven to freaks- so it does seem hypocritical of them to mock freakiness in others. However, I’d also say that speaking as freaks- they have every right to be terrified by seeing that quality manifested in religious fanaticism. The idea of the kind of mania you see at burning man channeled into a conservative religious doctrine and expressed through the office of president is… very disturbing.

WalterBillington

Oh ye Americans, fie and fear on you for rejecting of the Englishe leadership, for ye seeest in these darkened days the retribution that is visited upon you, in the form of wild talking and beautiful women, who would lead you and lead you into wars pestilence and famine.

Look ye upon the shores of olde Englande, and knowest that the leaders there keep unto them the highest of integrity.

Or not.

May Obama reign upon ye, and happy shall be your years.

nrs

Did anyone actually look at the clip? All is see is some off key singing and some people really really into the worship music. It’s a bit over emotional to be inside of my comfort zone as a christian, but to each their own.

Master of Space and Time

Ok
No more acid for those guys

What the F !

Freacks !

maturin

Look at those different people being different than us as they peacefully exercise their !rst Amendment rights.

chrisbloom7

@LHn – ctlly, n thr cntrs ppl lk tht r clld “prphts”. Bt y’r rght tht “Nbdy wld vt thm nt ffc whr thy’d gt cntrl vr nclr wpns t fght thr crzy hly wr t brng th pclyps.” Bcs n ths cntrs thy dn’t gt t vt.

Look, religious fundamentalists are kooky no matter which side of the fence they come from. Look at Obama’s “former” preacher. All I’m saying is a GOP kook is no more kooky than a Dem. kook. And GOP kooks will vote for GOP kooks and Dem kooks will vote for Dem kooks. So it all evens out in the end.

Lts fcs n th rl sss, lk hw ht t wll b t hv n ctl MLF n th Wht Hs.

Jeff

Reminds me of Snow Crash. Who knows, maybe they are really in touch with something that is beyond words.

cwclifford

Great. Now that song is stuck in my head!

oregonienne

That looks like the kind of church I grew up in. I was waaay into it when I was in high school – did the whole speaking in tongues, religious ecstasy thing. I’m an atheist now! Yay!

Trevel

Yes! Let us all join together and mock those who are different than us!

Brainspore

If God really is responsible for George W. Bush, the war in Iraq and our current oil policy then maybe it’s time to find a politician affiliated with Satan.

justONEguy

All this video needs at the end is “I’m John McCain and I approved this message.”

pantsravaganza

I think most churches have at least some fringe element of their congregation who comes to a random week night “holy roller” type of thing. The main congregation who just shows up on Sunday may be a lot more normal.

Enochrewt

Oh noes! People worshiping their god in a way you might not. Unless their sacrificing babies (pro-life joke hah!) at their church, who cares?

There’s a thing call seperation of Church and State in the USA, as constituents and citizens we have to make sure that it is kept seperate.

Besides, it just seemed like a bunch of white folk using every ounce of rhythm they have……

Ernunnos

Needs more Technoviking.

DCE

@Xeni While the post itself isn’t mocking, the language you’ve copied clearly is.

Many people (myself included) are quick to mock the religious fervor displayed in the video. The wording of the original author – “wandering zombie-like through the aisles” – is clearly meant to imply that the behavior exhibited is inherently strange and bizarre.

I think it’s important to point out the pot/kettle nature of that argument is all.

squeeziecat

I’m an athiest who has – on 3 occasions – experienced what the vast majority of people would call “religious ecstacy”, the kind of experience that often precedes a religious conversion. however, I leave God out of my braingasm. I choose instead to believe is a little gift from mother nature to humanity via our neurotransmitters.

trust me, it is freakin’ phenomenal – waves of electricity pulsing through your body making it seem to disappear, a sense of joy and acceptance and interconnectedness on a micro (cellular) and macro (universal) level – what bliss. I’ve wept involuntary tears of joy during these incidents and I sincerely hope you experience one someday… but not what comes BEFORE.

I was confused, exhausted, depressed or in a state of shock leading up to all 3 of my experiences, which should tip you off that brain chemistry and fatigue can play a big part in triggering these ecstatic states. (that’s not to diminish the hard work of people who meditate to get there, especially the Zen monks who can create waves and bursts of electrical energy which can be clearly viewed with brain scans).

these people in the congregation are trying their best to get there, but they’re not even close. they are faking it, big time. fakin’ it for the Lord…

consideredopinion

Man, white ~~man~~folks can’t ~~jump~~ dance!

That congregation needs a touch of Rev. Cecil Williams.

On a different note, the video seems a great selling pitch for Catholicism. After all, Catholics have supplication down with style. ;-)

amccann

You have to listen to what she really said about God’s will – she said to pray that they do God’s will…. much different than claiming they are doing God’s will.

Of course that either (a) doesn’t match with your beliefs about Christians being crazy or (b) requires parsing more complex sentences.

RaptorOne

When did the ‘directory of wonderful things’ become a paranoid political conspiracy group?

That church is actually very tame compared to similar church groups. They’re all merely reacting with the same social responses to those at concerts, comic cons, and nutty people camping out for a useless iPhone.

Yes, it’s your right to mock people, but it’s also their right to do as they wish peacefully…so…get back ‘wonderful things’ and leave this politically charged crap for lesser sites. Xeni, you’re a wonderful person…don’t change that now.

millionpoems

Freedom of religion.

arkizzle

Lionel.. isn’t it some sort of sin, or extreme bad manners at least, for someone to retrieve an already posted prayer, from the wall? Seems like a not very sociable thing to do, considering the very personal nature of this kind of thing.

I only address this to you because you posted the original quote.

Anyone else got any info on this kind of prayer-spying etiquette?

Takuan

it’s a wonderful thing to be able to protect what is left of the wonderful things you once had.
Outing religious loons with secret end-of-the-world agendas before the kill us all is VERY important. Who knows? Maybe at the last moment a sniper will take aim and the candidate will grab a child for a human shield – all on camera.

noaher

Ths s sch prdctbl pst. Ths sn’t nws r nythng thr thn n ttmpt t smr cnddt wh hs pltcl nd rlgs blfs tht r dffrnt frm ths st’s. t’s sd rlly, nd strps ny ntgrty ths st mght hv hd n my ys. t’s bvs ths st s jst nthr cg n th kltr smg mchn tht pllts th mnds f th msss. B.

electric

Complete horsesht. Why is attacking a religion OK?

I’m not into that holy roller stuff, but pentacostals abound and are decent people (wacky religious services).

vry rd r lstnd t th crzy BS tht bm st thrgh? stll cn’t blv nyn cld mntn tht t ws th “wrd”, mch lss smthng prsdntl cnddt wld tlrt. Hly smk, wht n gnrnt rcst pg. bm s fl’s cnddt. (McCn sn’t mch bttr)

so what

Hmmm….I dont actually hear anyone speaking in tongues, just hear bad music and see Alaskan’s doing what they call “dancing” or rejoicing in a similar way I’ve seen baptists do.

I also dont hear anyone damning our country, that’s for sure. I see people worshiping God in heir own way, without calling for God to destroy us.

My church doesn’t look like this one or Obama’s but I wouldn’t vote for president based on the candidates church or religion. But then again Palin is not running for president is she? I guess focusing on stupid issues like this is easier than focusing on real meaty issues, like you know the guy who is actually running…John McCain.

mouthyb

I don’t think as many people would be so interested in mocking Christians if we didn’t get so many of them that think that if they trash the earth or start a nuclear war, they can make Jesus come back faster.

I don’t care what you believe in, I care if there’s a strong possibility your deity of choice might suggest to you that you really need to start a war to get rid of the infidels and you don’t have the common sense to refuse. *cough-Bush*

Jebus, there’s faith and then there’s arrogant stupidity. And, at least in my experience with churches, there’s an awful lot of faith without thinking going on. As in, ‘if Jesus wanted you to think, he would have made you a preacher.’

Or, as I was told, ‘if Jesus wanted you to think, he’d have made you male.’

pork musket

@10 – Good thing Rev. Wright isn’t trying to become our VP then, isn’t it?

Takuan

I wish the paid astroturfers would be more unpredictable and less dull.

Xopher

Lionel, Alaska has a population about a quarter that of BROOKLYN. What does land mass matter? It’s a far smaller election to be governor of Alaska than to be Mayor of New York.

noaher

rkzzl – wr y wr (prbbly nt, bcs mn strm md wldn’t rprt t) tht bm’s ppl tld th nwsppr t tk th pryr nd pblsh t?

http://wb.srlnsdr.cm/rtcls/Pltcs/13021.htm

jtropp1

Does her choice of church account for her unique progeny naming? (Track, Trig, Bristol, Piper, and, um… http://www.flickr.com/photos/jtropp1/2827463987/ )

Ugly Canuck

Just like John Ashcroft. How can you trust these guys not to use the Governments powers to push their religion?

Xopher

Gee, I’ve been known to wander around in a trance sometimes, I speak in tongues with some regularity, and while I don’t “thrash on the floor” I have been known to get the “shakes” after a particularly powerful spiritual experience. I see nothing at all scary about this particular individual video clip.

No, I’m not an evangelical Christian. I’m a neo-Pagan. I guess I have some kinds of religious practice behavior in common with them. Diss them for wanting to make the US a Christian nation, not for their style of worship. I bet your religion (if you have one) looks pretty funny to an outsider too.

Wanna make fun of me? Go ahead. I’ll give you a topic: I have been known to actually HUG TREES. In fact I have hugged BIG ROCKS. And also a lot of human beings, sometimes just affectionately, sometimes as a healing process.

Oh, yeah, I lay hands on people to heal them too. Not by the power of Jesus; just plain old reiki. I am a very minor practitioner; I can make pain go away sometimes, for a while. I claim nothing more.

My point in mentioning this is while you may bond by ridiculing people’s religious practices and/or worship styles, you will also offend people who share some or all of them, but who also share your politics, like me. THAT’S not a problem; I won’t vote for McCain unless (perhaps even if) I trade my head for a cabbage on November 3.

Not everyone is as resolute as I am. After all, I know Sarah Palin and her ilk would execute me if they got the power to do so. But there are plenty of people who practice “funny” religions who might be on the fence. Offending them does no good and may do great harm.

Chris L

@30 Ditto for me. Happened to me at least once, and in hindsight, was one of the main things that started me on road towards atheism. A lot more crying in my experience, but I blame the Catholic part in me for that. Still, an amazing phenomenon, for those it actually happens to, not the ones who just pretend its happening to be part of the group.

And I’m not going to make any judgements on BB’s integrity but I will say that I’ll be really glad when this election year is done with. I mean, we all knew that she was an evangelical and we all know what goes on at those churches.

Takuan

minTphresh’s video link does not mock bad religion per se, it mentions an out and out evangelist “healer” crook using a hidden earpiece radio. Rather like the pre-McBush, Bush in a debate.

mark

Oh no! Her religious beliefs and observances vary from mine! And she sees them as being relevant to her actual life and the decisions she makes therein! Clearly she is incapable of being president of the senate.

anthony

Do a Google or Flickr search for “vandalized Obama signs”, especially here in Georgia, or click on one of the right-wing blog links over at the ‘Mad Magazine Palin parody’ thread if you care for theatrics.

Digital Artz

Nxn wn 49 stts t f 50 stts
bcs mst Dmcrts wr t stnd
t vt r frgt whch vtng dy t ws.
Just kidding,i’m sure????

Takuan

why do some want a state religion? Don’t they see the danger?

someguyyouvenevermet

actually, in other countries people like that are called “prophets”. But you’re right that “Nobody would vote them into office where they’d get control over nuclear weapons to fight their crazy holy war to bring the apocalypse.” Because in those countries they don’t get to vote.”

America is not the world’s only democracy

colonel gentleman

I only hope that someday, somehow, a Christian can catch a break in this country. They’ve been held down for far too long.

Seriously, Boing. Post whatever you’d like. Those who don’t like it can leave.

Don’t know how many times this has to be pointed out: Yes, there is freedom of religion. But we are also free to point out that they are bat-shit crazy. Maybe instead of complaining you could organize and push for an amendment to the Constitution enforcing mandatory respect for people’s delusions.

buddy66

#10 chasnleo:

hv nt bn bl t fnd pst bt Jrmh Wrght n bng, wht wnt n n hs chrch scrd m lt mr thn ths.

Oh, you’ve been to his church? Please tell us about it. What exactly scared you a lot?

mdhatter

I wonder if Rev. Jeremiah Wright thinks turnabout is fair play?

jim

I wish the unpaid sycophants would be more unpredictable and less dull.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator

Lionel:

I swear, I’ve seen more red, spittle-festooned faces spewing illogical arguments on the left since Mc Cain picked Palin…

No, you haven’t — not on TV, not here, and if you’re spending this much time online you aren’t seeing it in bar arguments either.

Projection, much?

Republicans don’t keep their politics to themselves. I grew up around Republicans. I’ve worked on Republican campaigns. (Have you?) I’ve lived on both sides of that border, and I know from personal experience that Republicans are likelier to get red-faced and spluttery and illogical. It’s because they run out of arguments to make, but they still feel strongly about their beliefs, and they’re frustrated because they can’t get the other guy to believe them too; so they repeat the same arguments over again, only more and more emphatically. That’s where the red faces and the aerosol droplets come in.

When Democrats and other leftward critters can’t reach agreement, they tend to work backward into broader and broader contexts, trying to either map the boundaries of their disagreement, or find the assumption about some value or principle that underlies the divergence in their views. Usually what happens is that the context gets so broad that they lose track of their structure, or they run into some large field of knowledge neither knows, and so they have to leave the question hanging for some later day that may or may not come.

Anyway, that’s the behavior I’ve observed in the Republicans and Democrats I’ve known.

If you enjoy long vigorous arguments that crisscross back and forth across the right-left divide, you might try a weblog called It’s All One Thing.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator

Digital Artz, I’m sorry I had to disemvowel your comment, but this is a thread in which someone could imaginably post a comment like that and mean it.

Xopher

I’m speaking of the video at the top of the thread. The one posted by Xeni herself. I don’t see anything particularly freaky about it. It’s not a worship style most Episcopalians (aka the Frozen Chosen) would be comfortable with, but that doesn’t make it scary.

Takuan

still nothing new Jimmieboy?

Takuan

for people with nukes?

mouthyb

Wonder how many old warhorses in Palin’s party are spinning in their grave because she’s a she and a VP candidate?

grimatongueworm

Doesn’t Borat visit this church?

In all seriousness, this is frightening to imagine. The reality is terrifying.

The Christo-Taliban would whack McCain in a hearbeat to install Palin as the head of the National Church Killers in the Name of Jesus of America.

philipacamaniac

I agree – the text description does NOT match the video. I’ve been to rock concerts with people doing much crazier things than that.

I’ve also been to Assembly of God churches that freaked the living shiz out of me (and this video certainly did not).

Takuan

@46
the meaning’s become twisted (like the gun thing). The original intent was no religion to be forced down your throat; “Freedom FROM Religion”. There was too much priestly payola at stake so it got warped into the mess you see today.

Video footage of Sarah Palin's church

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