FBI, UK cops claims LulzSec arrest. Lulzsec: "As if!"

Discuss

26 Responses to “FBI, UK cops claims LulzSec arrest. Lulzsec: "As if!"”

  1. randomguy says:

    I appreciate the ideology behind Anonymous and LulzSec but much of what they’ve actually done (or which is attributed to them) seems like little more than theft and vandalism to me.
    Are they out to punk to punk corporations and governments with poor cyber-security, or are they going to actually crash the system.
    I don’t know, it’s easy for me, or anyone else spectating on the sidelines to say, but go big or go home seems to apply, no?

    • Gulliver says:

      So you’re main complaint is that they’ve pulled pranks instead of actually fucking up folks’ lives?

      I know it’s hard to believe, but there are actually human beings who don’t have a comfortable middle-class existence and have to rely on those awful governments and corporations for services and a paycheck.

      • Anonymous says:

        I know it’s hard to believe, but there are actually human beings who don’t have a comfortable middle-class existence and have to rely on those awful governments and corporations for services and a paycheck.

        Firstly, virtually everyone in the “middle-class” (which should read working-class) relies on corporations for employment and government for services.

        Secondly, the idea that the relationship exists doesn’t make it good. Slaves rely on their slave owners and serfs on their lords. It’s true, but it’s still a crappy relationship. A better relationship would be where we can all contribute to society without being lorded around. It always astounds me how interested people are in democracy for politics, but don’t mind billionaires effectively determining virtually the entire nature of investment in the productive economy.

        • Gulliver says:

          Secondly, the idea that the relationship exists doesn’t make it good.

          Good thing they have brave individuals such as yourself to “liberate” them from their horrid lives.

          Slaves rely on their slave owners and serfs on their lords. It’s true, but it’s still a crappy relationship. A better relationship would be where we can all contribute to society without being lorded around. It always astounds me how interested people are in democracy for politics, but don’t mind billionaires effectively determining virtually the entire nature of investment in the productive economy.

          Industrial civilization has problems. But I hope for your sake you never have to experience actual slavery, even though it might make you pause before drawing untempered parallels between slavery and employment.

          The first duty of the slave is to kill the master.

          • CastanhasDoPara says:

            ‘The first duty of the slave is to kill the master.’

            While this is certainly true and I agree with you it is also true that the bosses must live in fear of the factory floor.

            In many ways I don’t see much difference between chattel slavery and wage slavery. The principle difference is that the wage slave is also responsible for his own lodging and care. And in practice at the lowest rungs of the ladder in an industrialized society the conditions aren’t much better than they would have been under classical slavery or serfdom. You may call this slim degree of choice freedom but I don’t see the choice of tenement A vs. tenement B as much of a choice and it hardly represents freedom. Let’s not even get into the other ‘masters’ a wage slave has in the form of slum lords and the various other leaches who sell him his food, transport, clothing and necessities of life.

            So have you experienced ‘actual slavery’ or were you just waxing philosophical about it just to make an argument? How about poverty level wage slavery? Just in case you answer no to either of those two questions take heart in the fact that the way the modern robber-barons are going it won’t be too long before we are all crammed into prison-like tenements and forced to buy from the company store almost enough feed to keep us and our families just above starving but still not ever making enough to afford anything more and barely able to raise a fist to oppression at the end of the day. And when that day has come to pass it won’t be long before chattel slavery rears its ugly head again. Nothing personal I just find your point to be in need of a little perspective. Because if we don’t fight for the rights we still have or the ones that we should have we will certainly lose them. And it will be that much harder to get them back after we realize what we have lost.

            Organize, it’s the rest of our lives!

          • Gulliver says:

            So have you experienced ‘actual slavery’ or were you just waxing philosophical about it just to make an argument?

            I would kill to prevent my society from returning to its practice of human property. Think of my words what you like – I happen to hold philosophy (or as Diogenes of Sinope termed it ‘living well’) in high esteem – but know if you find yourself on the other side of a conflict to return us to our antebellum disgrace, I have made my intentions clear.

            How about poverty level wage slavery?

            I have been poor enough that I’ve gone hungry.

            Just in case you answer no to either of those two questions take heart in the fact that the way the modern robber-barons are going it won’t be too long before we are all crammed into prison-like tenements and forced to buy from the company store almost enough feed to keep us and our families just above starving but still not ever making enough to afford anything more and barely able to raise a fist to oppression at the end of the day. And when that day has come to pass it won’t be long before chattel slavery rears its ugly head again. Nothing personal I just find your point to be in need of a little perspective.

            Other perspectives are always welcome. Doesn’t mean I agree with everything you predict. It’s easy to reduce the world to evil haves and innocent have-nots. Reality is more complex. We are all responsible for our civilization, even the poor.

            Because if we don’t fight for the rights we still have or the ones that we should have we will certainly lose them. And it will be that much harder to get them back after we realize what we have lost.

            No people retains rights for which they are unwilling to fight.

            “If you’re not ready to die for it, take the word “freedom” out of your vocabulary.” ~ Malcolm X

      • randomguy says:

        No, no, I’m not advocating the collapse of the system.
        I’m just pointing out how absurd their efforts actually are.
        In the grand scheme of large-scale change-inducing momentum, I suppose I’d equate these guys to the masked hooligans that show up at G20 protests to smash store windows.

        • Gulliver says:

          Ah, I misunderstood your criticism. In that case I basically agree with you, though I agree with davegroff in so far as their pranks are less like the hooligans who smashed shop fronts at the G20 and other riots than a network of skiddies punking some websites. Anonymous and LulsSec don’t exactly come off as a tightly wrapped package on a carefully thought-out mission. As long as they don’t screw up people’s lives, I’ll continue to think of them the way I think of teenage pranksters, mildly entertaining in their own way.

          As has been mentioned already, cyber-attacks against government and corporate websites are a frequent occurrence. The FBI alone sustained a couple hundred thousand attacks per year during the mid-to-late 90′s, with a success rate of better than half. They and other major network operators have gotten marginally better about their security, but it’s still appallingly bad.

          Just so I’m clear, most of the people rounded up by the cops at the Toronto G20 were peaceful protestors and unlucky passersby. What the Harper government did to its own populace was an affront to civil liberties in democracies everywhere. But the handful of rioters who did take it upon themselves to vandalize property are self-aggrandizing thugs. The shops they damaged, if they weren’t owned by mom and pop businesses, were almost certainly franchises that small business owners had to pay out of pocket or in the form of raised insurance premiums affecting everyone in the area to repair at the expense of profits and hence raises for their wage workers. Attacking the people trying to make a living does fuckall to affect the large corporate interests represented by the G20 itself. It’s on a level with kicking your neighbor in the nuts to protest corruption at City Hall. That some of the vandals were almost certainly spoiled American poli-sci students making the least of their summer breaks makes me ashamed on their behalf.

        • davegroff says:

          I like the G20 analogy, but I think think they’re closer to pranksters than vandals — blowing bubbles at riot police.

          • Goblin says:

            I disagree with your analogy, stolen personal information and public defacement of another’s property (no matter if it is virtual property) is a little beyond “bubbles”.

            Why not call it what it is? A public defacement and takedown. How is that not an act of vandalism? Such acts whether they are in meatspace or online are text book examples of vandalism.

            A web page may not be “brick and mortar” but that doesn’t mean that a web page isn’t a shared object of public value, that, like a traditional storefront or office is owned by another party.

            In fact Lulzsec’s justification for its attacks rests on the very fact that web pages are shared objects of value, otherwise there wouldn’t be any point behind a public defacement or DDOS.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Well, no one tends to snitch faster than a hacker who’s been caught. So I guess we’ll see if he’s who they think he is if other people start getting arrested.

  3. MonsterMan says:

    Awesome news, if true.

  4. allen says:

    While there is a heavy amount of ego boosting involved in what they do, actual damages are pretty small- extremely small compared to what they COULD do with that access. I think a relevant point is that not every person who could (and probably has) compromised those systems is inclined to post a tweet about it with evidence that it has happened, and that these are systems that are trusted to be secure.

    I don’t really buy into the romantic image that black hats have- I think ego rather than altruism is at the heart of a lot of their activities- but I DO think that blaming the hackers for weak security is getting it wrong. Either our systems should be able to withstand the concerted effort of some very smart people trying to compromise them, or they should be less essential than they are. I definitely think the antics of lulzec are less troubling than the large amount of internet fraud and theft that takes place every day. Unfortunately, 19 year old nerds making funny tweets and posting the directory structure of a CIA webserver is a lot more glamorous than grim 30-somethings in poor parts of the world stealing credit cards and paypal accounts.

    • Anonymous says:

      This +1000!!
      They could have kept the data they took secret and played the long con with it. Putting it out there gets them a feather for their cap and forces people to wake up to the world is not all sunshine and flowers. If LulzSec got in, assume the door had been open for a long time.

      Anyone else think its sad that after Fox, Sony, PBS, Sony, Sony, Sony, Sony, Bethesda, Sony, Sony, did I mention Sony – Hacks putting hundreds of thousands of people “at risk” and not a peep from Government taking it “seriously”? But when they embarrass the Senate and the CIA suddenly they strike with fast action to remove the head of their enemy?

  5. Anonymous says:

    you make it sound like being a member of Anonymous is in and of itself illegal. I’m a member of Anonymous, gonna come arrest me?

    i fully support Anonymous and Lulzsec. if these guys are still doing what they’re doing, then maybe these corporations and governments sound really look into upping their security, instead of crying to mommy when someone shows you your flaws.

  6. Mantissa128 says:

    As they’ve said on Twitter, he was just a guy running an IRC site they used. They have lots of others. They have no reason to lie.

    I love them. Again, as they’ve said, people have already compromised these sites and are doing who-knows-what with the information. You just didn’t know before.

    Don’t forget: the lulz boat promises something for everyone. Aaaaaannnd lulz, won’t hurt anymore… it’s an open smile, on a friendly shore!

    More and more, I’m lovin’ the 21st century.

  7. Anonymous says:

    how are ‘we’ pronouncing “LulzSec”? is it: “loves sex”? “lose sek”? …?

  8. machineisbored says:

    I think Ryan is the fall guy. He either attempted to or succeeded to hack some Anonymous servers back in May and Anon released his contact details.

  9. SamSam says:

    Did anyone not see this coming? You can’t start a well-publicized campaign of hacking into government websites (or even just DOSing cia.gov) without getting the government’s multi-billion-dollar cybersecurity labs chasing you down. I don’t care how many onion routers you go through, if you’re just pissing around then you’re going to get caught.

    Hmmmm… though Ryan Cleary could be their fall guy.

  10. CastanhasDoPara says:

    ‘…and you did this from your house?!?!’ ‘It’s universally stupid to hack X from your house.’ ‘What are you stoned or stupid?!?’

    Likely, this guy is not the real deal, or at the very least a fall guy. Seriously, these guys can’t be this dumb.

  11. knoxblox says:

    LulzSec, I’mma let you finish, but Osama bin Laden was…well, you know the rest.

  12. franko says:

    do UK schools have a summer recess, like in the united states? if so, i find it telling that these asshats suddenly show up right when summer break starts. sounds like some script kids have found a summer hobby. i bet they cause mayhem all summer, and if not caught, mysteriously disappear when the fall comes around.

    can’t we sic the redditors on them, or something?

  13. proginoskes says:

    Why doesn’t LulzSec digitally sign any of their press releases? They basically admit by implication that if their Twitter account is ever compromised, their entire identify is effectively broken. How do I know at any point in time the @LulzSec account hasn’t been taken over quietly by a government?

  14. Lobster says:

    LulzSec seems to be decentralized. Maybe Cleary was one of the “heads,” maybe not. Arresting him won’t make any difference unless they make an example of him. I mean, the US said it would treat cyberattacks as acts of war. What would they do with a 19-year-old who bombed the US Senate, the FBI, the CIA, and a dozen major companies?

  15. 0x783czar says:

    Even if they didn’t get someone LulzSec (which is pretty unfortunate for whoever they did get), these stories always end the same way. But I still have to give my black-hats-off to LulzSec. We may understand how these things usually end, but we still have to give our respect to skill.

  16. Deidzoeb says:

    Stone Philips: “For more on the arrest, we turn to Dr. Pizza. Doc?” . . .

Leave a Reply