Libya: Rebels take control of capital

English translation of an SMS message circulating widely throughout Libya right now, as rebel forces and anti-Gaddafhi protestors take over "Green Square," renaming it "Martyr Square":

"God is great. We congratulate the Libyan people as Gaddafhi falls. We encourage Libyan people to go out to streets, protect, and keep the public buildings safe. Long live free Libya. —The National Transitional Council".

@flyingbirdies via @antderosa, translation by @baghdadbrian, alternate version here.

Previous BB post from today, with links for live coverage of the fast-moving events in Tripoli.

Boing Boing editor/partner and tech culture journalist Xeni Jardin hosts and produces Boing Boing's in-flight TV channel on Virgin America airlines (#10 on the dial), and writes about living with breast cancer. Diagnosed in 2011. @xeni on Twitter. email: xeni@boingboing.net.

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Private Private

Watching video of celebrations from ‘Martyr Square’. Lovely, beautiful faces. Want to hug them all.
Drabula

Congrats, Libya. I wish you well. I hope to visit someday.
- http://twitter.com/john_shutt John Shutt
  
  I like @arabist:twitter’s idea of an Egypt-Libya-Tunisia road trip.
  - Guest
    
    perhaps a rally could be arranged?
- Mina
  
  I hope to re-visit Tripoli some day. I was born there 55 years ago.
thebelgianpanda

Are you serious? Did Trippoli fall?
- travtastic
  
  Seems like it!
  
  In Pictures: The Battle for Tripoli
thebelgianpanda

I am absolutely ignorant as to what is going to happen in the power vacuum, and perhaps I am (again) too optimistic, but HOLY SHIT this feels like when I was a kid watching the Berlin wall fall. Honestly, I thought this would never happen.

For my own conscience, I hope the rebels fullfill the peacefull aspirations of those that fought and fell.
Grey Devil

Read an article that the Rebels had captured one of Gadaffi’s sons
thebelgianpanda

I read a report that said one son was captured, then there was a retraction, and now the nytimes is reporting two sons have been captured.

It’s just too early to say I think.
Finnagain

Excellent work, Libyans! Next up: Syria.I hope.
Neural Kernel

Don’t get cocky…
Martha Bridegam

Not celebrating until somebody explains who are The Rebels exactly. Something about their attitudes, reasons for involvement, formal ideologies, informal philosophies, extent or type of reliance on hierarchy to make decisions, professions or life histories of leading figures… How many active participants are women? How many are members of other exploited social categories? Could someone please offer a clue who the hell these people are?
- Genre Slur
  
  It could be all the William Gibson, Bruce Sterling and general history that I’ve read, but I smell a set-up. National Transitional Council? Riiiiiight, if you say so…
- Mister44
  
  Man – way to be a downer. It’s possible who ever takes power will be worse than Gaddafi. But as this wasn’t a coup perpetrated by the military, but by the people who were sick of being under the same nut since 1969, I think it is reasonable to be optimistic. Libya is more secular nation, and I don’t think a theocracy is very likely.
  
  Will there be issues that some colors of Islam are notorious for, such as women having less rights as men, the answer is probably yes. What ever happens, it won’t be an idealistic Western-type republic democracy. But I expect what becomes of Libya will be better than what they had before. I hope it stands as inspiration for Iran and Syria, and a warning to future regimes that the people will eventually get tired of your shit.
  - Andrew Singleton
    
    Not even a ‘western’ democracy is idealistic. Just look at what we have to put up with from the elected officials.
    
    Still. Something democratic, one where every voice is heard in the nation’s dialog and acted on according to it’s merits, is something to hope for.
    - http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/OKEONAMLFIOS5WI7MPQY6SXBCQ IRMO
      
      “Not even a ‘western’ democracy is idealistic. Just look at what we have to put up with from the elected officials.”
      
      Years from now, at an Iraqi schoolboard meeting, someone will say something mind bogglingly stupid. A citizen in the audience will put his face into his hands, and it will dawn on him that America’s real motive for pushing democracy in the Arab world was revenge.
- thebelgianpanda
  
  Not to be too much of an ass, but until a few months ago the general public knew next to nothing about the rebels. All we knew was there was a rebellion that may or may not be a civil war against Ghaddafhi.
  
  You and I will not know the heirarchy, attitudes, and distribution of this rebellion mostly because it looks to be a popular rebellion–which may or may not match our own ideas of what they should be rebelling against.
  
  It is going to take years I think to answer the questions you are asking.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=693064597 Ian Whitehouse

I know there’s the possibility of a power vacuum and a wholly religious government taking power but, really, could it be any worse that Gadafhi. He’s well past his “use by” date and has done nothing positive for the country at all, simply using it has his own plaything and the world of terrorism his playground. Moreover we stood the strong possibility of his son prolonging his legacy. Congratulations to people who weren’t soldiers but had the bravery to confront armed forces and mercenaries.
ahecht

After looking at other governments overthrown by western-backed rebel movements, such as Iran, Iraq, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc, I’m not immediately sure this is a good thing.
EH

I think we can all cheer the fall of Qaddafi, a brutal madman if there
ever was one, but I recommend Vijay Prashad’s early (March 31) analysis
of who the Transitional National Council is:
http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad03312011.html
We can be critical of Qaddafi and critical of the TNC at the same time.
librtee_dot_com

Hurray! The Anglo-American Empire/Al-Qaeda forces have deposed the awful cannibal Gaddafi. Rejoice, let’s have a ticker tape parade!

Sometimes it really does feel like we’re living in 1984…
- Garnett Schuyler
  
  Don’t be a butt. Rebels have deposed a man whose simultaneously brutal and loco regime has lasted far too long. For now, I am celebrating this as a good thing. Wait until the power vacuum has been filled to gloat. Also, I fucking love parades.
  - librtee_dot_com
    
    Here’s one thing I promise: the end result of this whole exercise for the quality of life of the average Libyan will be far, far worse than it was under the cruel but stable Gaddafi, just as was the case in Iraq. Saddam was bad, the maelstrom that followed his departure far, far worse.
    
    This whole thing is much more similar to a civil war than a genuine grassroots uprising. I won’t be surprised a bit if there is found to be US/NATO intelligence involvement in the beginnings of this ‘popular uprising.’
    
    Judging from the massive (1m+) and boisterous pro-gaddafi rallies that have taken place in recent weeks, there are at least some Libyans who prefer the known (and 100% libyan) bad, rather than the unknown (possibly either islamist OR US/NATO connected).
    
    We shouldn’t forget that Libya is a huge oilpot, with reserves close to that of Saudi Arabia. The NATO involvement in this has been a blatant resource grab from the start, IMHO.
    
    If this news is indeed true, I think it will likely be marked as a tragic day by future historians.
    - Link47
      
      Your analysis is entirely wrong. Libya is nothing like Iraq, the political situation is entirely different between the two. In Iraq the US created the insurgency by disbanding the entire military and wrecking all governmental institutions. In Libya the structure and institutions of the state remain, along with the regular military structure (Gadafi special units aside). Furthermore, Libya doesn’t have the same social and ethnic cleavages that Iraq has. Saddam’s rule in Iraq was based on pitting groups against each other, while Libya is based on a much wider coalition of tribes engaging in a negotiated version of authoritarianism.
      
      And if you think those crowds supporting Gadafi in Tripoli actually supported him, you’re likely very wrong. People can easily be bought, or even easier, threatened into demonstrating. Manipulating opinions through fake staged performances is what politics is all about. In fact, a good many protests or social movements aren’t at all as spontaneous or uncoordinated as people think. There is a book by a political scientist named Aguiar on food riots in latin america and how certain stores were specifically targeted based on lists produced by politicians and distributed by protest “leaders.”
      
      Finally, your insinuation in an earlier post that the US and British are trying to grab onto empire and have mutual interests overlapping with al Qaeda is preposterous. Al Qaeda has absolutely nothing to gain from knocking off these dictators. God forbid the people get to pick their leaders and then shockingly don’t pick the Islamists!
      
      So, in summary, keep your day job.
    - TooGoodToCheck
      
      If this news is indeed true, I think it will likely be marked as a tragic day by future historians
      
      Wow. Do you buy your pessimism in bulk, or what?
    - Antinous / Moderator
      
      Here’s one thing I promise: the end result of this whole exercise for the quality of life of the average Libyan will be far, far worse than it was under the cruel but stable Gaddafi, just as was the case in Iraq. Saddam was bad, the maelstrom that followed his departure far, far worse.
      
      Please compare and contrast the situation in Libya with the Sunni-Shiite schism in Iraq. They’re rather different countries.
      - Gulliver
        
        Please compare and contrast the situation in Libya with the Sunni-Shiite schism in Iraq. They’re rather different countries.
        
        Just because they’re on separate continents? With totally different histories? And different cultures? I mean, seen one third world country, seen ‘em all, right?
        
        Just to be on the safe side…
        
        #SARCASM
    - MythicalMe
      
      I think you’re wrong. My own feeling is that in order to self-govern the Libyans had to get rid of Gaddafi themselves. Yes they’ve had a little help from NATO, but the fledgling USA had a lot of help from France.
      
      Iraq was a mistake. The different factions may have never mustered enough strength to overthrow Saddam. The US interfered and forced self rule on people who really had no idea how to do so.
      
      The transitional government in Libya has had time to learn self-governance and will not be quick to lose the freedom they have won.
      - librtee_dot_com
        
        get back to me when the oil contracts have been signed.
      - Genre Slur
        
        “…was a mistake.”
        One could argue that the only mis-take regarding the Iraq event was how obvious it was in its affectations. When they ‘toppled’ the Saddam statue all I could think of was ‘what manner of magic was employed to get Busby Berkley to choreograph this after death?’
    - Mister44
      
      I can’t believe I am reading this. First off we have the pessimistic and paranoid conspiracy theories of a NATO led uprising to suck our more oil from Libya. They could have all the oil they wanted, especially by lifting any remaining sanctions from Libya. As you point out, things were stable. Oil was flowing already. And then somehow they are supposed to steer power and control the oil in the country with no boots on the ground? (Never mind the completely inept, and bumbling actions of the past, they have it figured out this time. They are going all Cloak and Dagger in the desert!)
      
      Then you have the audacity to somehow split hairs between a ‘civil war’ and an ‘uprising’, as though there is a meaningful difference. Considering so many of the troops fighting for Gaddafi were FOREIGN and the number of defecting military, I am going to chalk this up to uprising.
      
      But hey – they should have just kept quiet anyway – right? No need to rock the boat, right? Sure it was bad under Gaddafi – but stable! How dare they dream of something better than ‘stable’. Let’s not tear something down to build it up better because there will be a period of ‘worse’. Well too bad for you and any others who would rather things stayed the same. The rebels fought, bled, and won. They could put Captain Crunch in power if they wanted. They earned it.
      
      All those ungrateful people in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria, and Iran need to sit down and shut the fuck up. The gov. knows what is best for them. They have their best interests in mind. Their rulers have dedicated their WHOLE LIVES to running and maintaining a stable country. Other pussy nations have leaders for maybe a decade at most. Not here. They sacrififice spending time with their family and their golf game for decades on end to ensure things stay stable. They selflessly pass the torch down to their offspring, taking on a burden few could shoulder.
      
      o_0
      
      re: “Judging from the massive (1m+) and boisterous pro-gaddafi rallies that have taken place in recent weeks” – yeah – my Polish MiL had to go to all sorts of Pro-Communist rallies. One would think the whole country bled… er… Red from the planned “boisterous” rallies.
Fex

I’ve heard the translation was a little screwed up. It actually reads:

“God is great. We congratulate the Libyan people as Gaddafhi falls.
We encourage Libyan people to go out to the local foodcourt and RAGE. —The National Transitional
Council”.
- thebelgianpanda
  
  Fex, since I am ignorant, what does, “local foodcourt and RAGE” mean? Demonstration points? Seige areas? I am just curious, nothing more.
  - LikesTurtles
    
    It’s a reference to an earlier story about a rapper who needed some street cred so he caused a ruckus in an exurban shopping mall’s food court while hordes of teens summoned by Twitter cheered. Contrast the Libyans fighting for control of their country against some wannabe jumping up on a table at the South Park Mall and being beloved by the teens of America for it and you can see he was likely mocking our cultural values.
    - thebelgianpanda
      
      gotcha, thanks :D (i’m ignorant in all sorts of ways, except strange ones)
    - Fex
      
      Thanks for correctly explaining my randomness.
      
      As for mocking cultural values – that’s giving me a little too much credit. I was more being an internet idiot. The notion of Libyan foodcourt chaos seemed rather amusing to me.
      
      It would be nice to see other side of things too, of course. The rapper encouraging his fans to go out in the streets and make things safe/better. “We’re fed up with being stuck in this suburban hell hole! So we made a community garden and organised some cool local art exhibitions… Gangsta art, of course.”
soapdish

Somehow I doubt any god had anything to do with it.
- http://www.kmoser.com kmoser
  
  They’ve been watching too many TV award shows.
magic

I was against any US intervention in this matter. But now that it seems our military objectives were very successfully achieved, I doubt the administration will relieve it’s political due here at home… Fickle, fickle politics!
RJ

Somebody call Michelle Bachmann and tell her the Libs have taken over Tripoli! Next thing you know, they’ll be allied with the Soviets!
Link47

Both translations miss where it says Gadafi’s first name in the text, Moamar: مُعَمَّر
Genre Slur

I won’t compare and contrast anything myself. Yet the student of humanity that I am suggests within this thread there appears to be far too much certainty regarding the value of this situation. Also there appears to be an entirely unverified assumption regarding the agencies involved. National Transitional Council may have testimony asserting their intentions, yet history shows me that surreptitious agencies employ groups of people as useful idiots as much as they employ individuals.

Simply put, it seems to me that skepticism should be employed regarding groups of humans killing each other for control of aspects of external reality with at least as much vigor as skepticism is employed in assessing claims to explain aspects of external reality.

Or should I not question this ‘droplet of experience’, as A N Whitehead would say…
Genre Slur

I should note also that, despite being in favour of his style of Spectacular manipulation (IE at first banning tourism and advertising, taking a tent with him on foreign excursions, his ludicrous pillbox-hat-and-shades ‘facet’, et cetera), I hold al-Gaddafi with the same regard that I hold the head of any other nation-state or corporation. That regard is as low as the intentions of whom I speak.
http://twitter.com/openfly ǝɔʎoſ ʇʇɐW

I love how people assume every revolution is a good one. It’s like they live in a magic unicorn laden world in which people like Gaddafi didn’t seize power in exactly the same sort of revolt.

Revolts aren’t good. They are very very bad. Especially in modern civilization, where major cities don’t handle disruption in sewage, transportation, and electricity well… and by don’t handle well, I mean lots of people will die even after the shooting stops. Revolts are truly terrible things. And when it comes to the point that sane people think this is the best of all possible options, the simple fact is, nothing good is going to happen. A lot of people will die. A lot of people have died. And absolutely nothing is certain in regards to any sort of positive change occurring. The only real certainty is that death will be in abundance. Wipe the smile off your face. This event doesn’t merit joy. It merits horror, and sadness. And whether it was necessary or not, these events are inevitable should circumstance and stupidity conspire to breed the environment for them. And if there is any emotion one should feel when confronted with events such as these it is disgust. Disgust at the people that were so blind or selfish that they found themselves in this situation, and disgust at the abject waste of it all.

Violent conflict, is a situation in which all sides lose. There are no winners. And while conflict is in many situations a forgone conclusion, the fundamental nature of it never changes. There is no winning here. There is just loss, and more loss, until finally people tire of it, and seek to rebuild.

I hope the people of Libya can recover from this. I hope they can join the rest of the world in open dialogue, free speech, and human equality. But, more than anything I hope that this sort of event is never brought about ever again.

Anywhere.
- anwaya
  
  Shorter @twitter-14164071:disqus: “relax and enjoy your tyrant.” Such an ill-considered position.
  
  While many revolutions are very very bad, there have been very very many of them, and some of them are very very good indeed. Portugal in ’74, for example. But the thing is that people, The People, the plebes, hoi polloi, don’t like oppressive tyrants for long. They want to kick them out. And unless you, openfly, I mean you, want the future to be about a boot grinding into your face forever, you’ll celebrate those who kick tyrants out in what might be a revolt with very very bad consequences, because you don’t want to live under a very very bad tyrant any more than I do, or the revolutionaries that risk very very bad outcomes.
- Rindan
  
  Revolutions suck. It is true, that they almost always lead to immediate suffering. Even mostly peaceful revolutions are sure to have short term birthing pains. That said, the blanket commendation of revolutions is a bit narrow. How far out do you have to look before you decide a revolution was ‘worth it’?
  
  The track that Libya was on was one of unmitigated suffering, repression, and perpetual poverty. If Libya had had kicked Gaddafi out after 10 years instead of 40, and then taken up a Turkish style government, would you be so quick to declare the revolution a horror?
  
  War is bad to be sure. I am pretty solidly against it in most things. That said, sometimes you are met with violence that can only be resolved with violence. Gaddafi’s brutal and violent repression of protests to his rule spelled out pretty clearly that nothing other than violence was going to remove this man.
  
  Keep in mind that the history of rebellion in the 20th century was not a history of democratic rebellion as we are perhaps seeing in Arab Spring. Most 20th century rebellions were rebellions for some flavor of extreme and now clearly failed ideology. The Arab Spring rebellions seem to be, at least in this early stage of the game, ideologically neutral. These are not people looking to try out some new radical form of government doomed to fail. They just want functional states kept in check by democratic means.
  
  It is far too soon to see if any of the Arab Spring rebellions, both peaceful and not, are going to shape up. The devil they knew might very well have been the better option. That said, keep in mind that regardless of the outcome, scars heal. Yugoslavia was torn asunder by war and rebellion. The entire region suffered heavily as those bloody conflicts played out. Now though, things in that area are looking solidly up. The region has recovered and some places are even booming powerhouses of prosperity and economic activity.
  
  People celebrating the end of violence and the beginning of rebuilding and trying to shape something new is exactly the proper response.
- Mister44
  
  Please, PLEASE tell people who have sacrificed everything since February they haven’t “won” anything. I just want to see their honest reply.
  
  Like many things in life, progress and freedom often require both pain and sacrifice. I guess if it is hard and painful, it shouldn’t be done? Freed slaves (both in America and abroad) had a hell of a time surviving after becoming freemen. Better to live on their knees and hope for a kind master than risk starving or abuse as a freeman, right?
  
  With all the bile and rage seen on BB when digital surveillance, anti-piracy, or broad reaching copyrights are brought up – I find it puzzling that some think people should just lay back and take it, lest there be “violence” or tough times ahead. I am sure the average Libyan would be euphoric with joy if the worst they had to worry about from their gov. was the copyright extension of some Mickey Mouse cartoons and some CCTVs by their local 7/11.
  
  The revolt happened because at some point they could not take the burden of their ruler any longer. The chance of death is worth the opportunity that their children and grand children will grow up knowing a better life than they ever did.
Andrew Singleton

Not all revolts are good, but given the man they had at the helm was a self-glorifying tyrant that cared little beyond his personal clique I’d say this one is overdue.
http://twitter.com/openfly ǝɔʎoſ ʇʇɐW

anwaya I think you missed my point entirely. The world isn’t divided into decisions of good and bad.
violence is loss. It is nothing else. The simple fact is, that people are dead, and they will never come back. Libya’s infrastructure has been torn asunder. Chaos and anarchy will be the order of the day for a while still to come. And during all of this still more life will be lost. More of Libya destroyed. And at the end of it all, there is no guarantee that things will get better. All that has happened is that a mad man has torn his country apart, and people have found themselves facing death or killing as options.

Revolt is the inevitable consequence of tyranny, but there is nothing to celebrate in it. The situation is fucked and people are dead and dead at the hands of men and women who will now live with the knowledge that they have killed. That’s what revolution is. And it’s not to be celebrated. It’s to be feared, and fought against in every possible way. So that the point at which it becomes an inevitability is never reached.

That’s what we should be taking away from this. Nothing else.
nuorder

Ok, this is a bit off-topic, but does anyone know the whereabouts of “Abdelbeset al Megrahi?” (He’s the Pan-Am 103 bomber that was set free due to dubious medical reasons)

I think these rebels need to be fixed in on his address and drop by his house. What do you think?
opmaroon

I thought inciting disorder was illegal?
Paool

I see a lot of over celebration at the top of the page. Wait to see what Govn’t forms out of this before packing your bags for a trip shall we?
It’s like what they say about history, doomed to repeat itself, and I always look on the pessimistic side of new Govn’ts. Too much can go wrong. Can’t get much worse than what was there, but we’ll see.
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/42THFKXIPMJHQBIH6OPI4RVIDY Thebes

What a wonderful example of USA / Nato / al Qaeda cooperation.
Now a new and even bloodier regime will control Libya.
But at least we’re making that country safe for Western business and getting rid of their state owned bank. And at only the low low price of defecating upon our constitution, with our Chief Executive waging a war violating it (again).
Gulliver

I, for one, welcome our new democratic overloads.

More seriously, congrats to the Libyan rebels.

I do wish my government, the U.S. hadn’t participated in the NATO air power assist, not because I don’t approve of the Libyans’ democratic overhaul, but because I disapprove of my nation’s Cold War era-borne military interventionist foreign policy. But that’s not the Libyans problem and there’s no reason for them to let my dissatisfaction with my government’s policies spoil their victory.

As for those who simply can’t believe the rest of the world can have minds of their own outside the all-powerful agendas of the CIA or the psychic superpowers of Julian Assange…well, I think you’re wrong, but I guess some folks will always fill in the variables with their own preconceptions.

As has been noted, revolutions suck and armchair revolutionaries rarely think beyond the act of revolt, but things probably weren’t peachy before hand if a people are willing to keep going once they realize what a dictator will do to hold onto power. Either way, it’s not my place to judge what regime the Libyan people want running their government, but I hope for their sake they overcome the opportunists that are sure to come out of the woodwork to fill the Gaddafi-sized power vacuum.