Rushkoff: OWS is not a protest, but a prototype for a new way of living.

As usual, Douglas Rushkoff has an interesting perspective on OWS: "t is not a protest, but a prototype for a new way of living. "

But “Occupy” is anything but a protest movement. That’s why it has been so hard for news agencies to express or even discern the “demands” of the growing legions of Occupy participants around the nation, and even the world. Just like pretty much everyone else on the planet, occupiers may want many things to happen and other things to stop, but the occupation is not about making demands. They don’t want anything from you, and there is nothing you can do to make them stop. That’s what makes Occupy so very scary and so very promising. It is not a protest, but a prototype for a new way of living.
Now don’t get me wrong. The Occupiers are not proposing a world in which we all live outside on pavement and sleep under tarps. Most of us do not have the courage, stamina, or fortitude to work as hard as these kids are working, anyway. (Yes, they work harder than pretty much anyone but a farmer or coal miner could understand.) The urban survival camps they are setting up around the world are a bit more like showpieces, congresses, and “beta” tests of ideas and behaviors the rest of may soon be implementing in our communities, and in our own ways.
The occupiers are actually forging a robust micro-society of working groups, each one developing new approaches - or reviving old approaches - to long running problems. In just one example, the General Assembly is a new, highly flexible approach to group discussion and consensus building. Unlike parliamentary rules that promote debate, difference, and decision, the General Assembly forges consensus by “stacking” ideas and objections much in the fashion that computer programmers “stack” features. The whole thing is orchestrated through simple hand gestures (think commodities exchange). Elements in the stack are prioritized, and everyone gets a chance to speak. Even after votes, exceptions and objections are incorporated as amendments.

CNN: Occupy Wall Street is not a Protest but a Prototype

Mark Frauenfelder is the founder of Boing Boing and the editor-in-chief of MAKE and Cool Tools. Twitter: @frauenfelder. Come and hear Mark speak at the ALA conference in Chicago on July 1.

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Guest

It may not be efficient, but have you seen Congress? That place is a mess.
Teller

The 70s communes, some of which had success, were placed far away from cities for precisely the reason something like this isn’t viable. Not the gathering, its ability to sustain itself without interference.
- Guest
  
  The only thing that went wrong on the communes was the inevitability of the cool guys pissing off the smart guys by sleeping with ALL the women. Watch “Commune”, then see my life.
  - Teller
    
    That and some hard drugs and crashers and division of labor disputes.
  - Antinous / Moderator
    
    The only thing that went wrong on the communes was the inevitability of the cool guys pissing off the smart guys by sleeping with ALL the women.
    
    Funny. In my commune all the guys were sleeping with all the other guys.
  - http://twitter.com/Pjuter Marcel Oerlemans
    
    Here in Amsterdam I hear that’s exactly what’s happening already…
PapayaSF

As a somewhat skeptical old ex-hippie who has actually lived in communal households, my reaction to Rushkoff is a snort and a shake of the head. These aren’t “new ideas and behaviors,” they’re old ones. They generally didn’t work well in the ’60s and ’70s in smaller, more cohesive and homogeneous groups, so they’re not going to work in protest encampments on public property. Sorry.
Cocomaan

In ancient Greek society, the agora was a central place for citizens (read: male land owners) to meet to discuss politics and sell goods. The Romans had the Forum. It’s function was similar.

Urban architecture, specifically the phenomenon of the central public square, is designed to be occupied by people that live there. The first action of a repressive government is to clear that town square (see what Bahrain did with Pearl Square – that statue is no longer standing). Henri Lefebvre talked about that years ago in the Urban Revolution.

The square is *meant* as a place for people to congregate. Creating a space for public discussion of the society you live in is as old as politics itself.
thentro

Any communication rules that rely on finger “Twinkling” is doomed to fail. It’s ridiculous.
Eagle Gosselin

William Gibson discussed such a thing in the Bridge Trilogy and Johnny Mnemonic.
Blaven

Not sure if I buy any of this. The only thing that is uniting OWS into a fairly cohesive group is that they are united against economic injustice and economic desperation. When the economy finally does turn around, there will be nothing to hold them together anymore, and they will likely fade away if not before then. After all, camping outside is only fun for so long, especially with winter coming.

But all that aside, I’m still glad the OWS protesters are there, as a leftist balance to the right wing Tea Party, if nothing else. And hopefully they will have a positive impact, pulling our society into a more user-friendly direction rather than one that caters to those rich enough to afford political influence.
- Cocomaan
  
  “…When the economy finally does turn around…”
  Fat chance of that.
http://twitter.com/appalachianow Josh Benson

Sorry but I’m not about to dash my hopes for this movement just because some tweaked out Jimi Hendrix fans failed to accomplish anything 50 years ago aside from causing an epidemic of venereal diseases and promoting the idea that drug use = enlightenment. Haters gonna hate. What’s happening down in Zucotti Park and elsewhere all over the world are the birth pangs of a future society that rejects greed and hyper-individualism in favor of strong communities and healthy, happy beings. Join or die.
- Nikolas Adair
  
  The hippie movement was corrupted from within by greed and the lust for power, not by any failure of ideals. I don’t see anything preventing the same thing happening to OWS.
  - EndlessIke
    
    People are corrupted by greed and power, that’s why every utopia fails
- http://twitter.com/Pjuter Marcel Oerlemans
  
  Join or die. ? What? Really? Nice peaceful “protest” you have here…
  - travtastic
    
    1) You’re pretty obviously taking that statement out of context. “Get out of the building or you’ll burn to death!” isn’t what I would call a veiled threat.
    2) One comment on a BB comment board is not the defining moment of a populist movement.
    3) Occupy Amsterdam probably has a community-organized axe-grinding station set up and open to everyone, yourself included. You don’t have to do it here.
- http://www.facebook.com/Alendar Jeff Humphreys
  
  “join or die.” Very awesome.
- pocketpan
  
  Is that a threat?
awjt

All I have to say is practice making do with the bare minimum and see if you can thrive. You might surprise yourself.
flagler23

This is exactly the kind of self-reinforced hyperbole that turns me off from the movement. The way this guy describes a bunch of people living in tents and how they twinkle their hands as some profound new modes of sociality does nothing to lend it credibility.
corydodt

Programmers don’t “stack” features. Stack means something completely else.
saraeanderson

It’s hard not to get from this that they can’t possibly try to accomplish something because they might fail. How is that not the status quo, plus a camping trip? I have a hard time just ignoring it, but the more I look into it, the more excuses I find.
SKR

Most of us do not have the courage, stamina, or fortitude to work as hard as these kids are working, anyway. (Yes, they work harder than pretty much anyone but a farmer or coal miner could understand.)

This sounds like the utterance of someone who has never actually done any hard work. I’ve shoveled shit in stables, worked construction, and worked in a kitchen. Except for the people that are pulling sanitation and kitchen duty, who is doing “hard” work, what is it, and for how long does it go on. Sounds like hyperbole to me.
- http://www.facebook.com/sarah.shevett Sarah Shevett
  
  I agree, as a farmer, please don’t even equate what I do everyday to what these people are doing. Srsly. These children wouldn’t last 2 days on a dairy farm.
Alex Schneider

Casting OWS as a utopian movement? That’s the way forward!
Rushkoff isn’t a false flag, is he?
- Charles H.
  
  “ Rushkoff isn’t a false flag, is he?”
  
  Five and a half hours. That was quicker than I expected.
http://www.facebook.com/sarah.shevett Sarah Shevett

The hippie movement failed when they fell into the old stereotypes of the women tending the kitchen and the house and the children while the men played. Oh, and that they actually had to work.
trefecta

While his metaphor of ‘stack’ is off, in that ‘features’ aren’t put into stacks, the way ‘stacking’ works in General Assembly IS a FCFS stack.

Can we call ‘twinkling fingers’ part of the General Assembly Language (hehe)? And is it really more ridiculous as smacking hands together to make a loud noise to communicate “well said, I like what you’re saying, so I’m going to make noise to overcome your noise”? Are a decaying culture’s preconceptions important to reinforce because new things just seem ‘silly’? Understand your conceptual comfort zone, and maybe open your mind a little…
travtastic

I’m a professional Boulder Pusher. These lazy young hooligans want to see what work is? Come by my boulder farm! That’s work! Anything less labor-intensive than what I do for a living is a joke!
- csforstall
  
  I’m a professional Boulder Pusher. These lazy young hooligans want to see what workis? Come by my boulder farm! That’s work! Anything less laborious than what I do for a living is a joke!
  
  How does this sort of answer square with the idea, from the OWS, that everyone gets a voice?
  
  Frankly, this is the sort of behavior and attitude that really turns me off to the movement as a whole. Do you and these OWS folks really want to listen to what the rest of the country has to say? (or even listen to the community they are occupying?) My limited interactions online with some of the self-proclaimed sympathsizers doesn’t bode well for a movement that claims everyone will have a voice.
  
  It’s a hollow claim at best, as it seems citizen critcism (via comments online at least) of the movement is automatically tarred as “corporatist.”
  - – -
  
  The article is long on computer analogy (i.e. this is part of the movement’s mythos) and short on practical suggestions. If it comes to governing and this is the beta test, then count me out, I as a private citizen am far away from the debate (or “stack” I suppose) and I don’t even have a number to call to address my complaint to! By holding a greek “polis” style debate in modern times you are automatically cutting out those who aren’t at that location! The shear inanity of the whole thing is mind-boggling to a provencial like myself.
  - travtastic
    
    Oh my, are you serious? My criticism of people essentially calling protesters lazy (via comparison to some ridiculously abnormal workload) is undermining the movement?
    
    Here’s my advice: realize that people will disagree with you (wow, what?). This isn’t elementary school, and as adults, occasionally people who see inane opinions will call them inane.
    
    The very best part is that you don’t even have to agree with the criticism! And it in no way prevents you from voicing yours!
    - csforstall
      
      Despite what you imply, I cannot read your mind or divine your thoughts. As is common with snarky comments there was a misunderstanding of who you were addressing that comment to, and what point you wished to prove via that implied snark.
      
      EDIT: I am mostly put off by the fact that the formulation of your comments demand that I know about you and your ideas personally and thus what that comment means to you.
      
      If you were to sit down and think about it, this is technically a public “wall” and you have to imagine that all those who might read that comment aren’t people who would be able to look at it and actually “know” what you “mean.” Do you understand where I’m going with this?
      
      You have a responsibility to explain yourself to your audience.
      
      And come to think of it, perhaps due to the internet based dynamic of the movement, OWS seems to have reached much the same conclusion as you have, that they don’t have any resposibility to their possible audience.
      - travtastic
        
        You have a responsibility to explain yourself to your audience.
        
        Oh, cool. Explain your last paragraph for me. So ‘the internet’ is to blame for your perception that the protesters don’t care what you think?
        
        Additionally, if you’ll re-read my comment, you may notice that it was about comparing one ‘job’ to another. To decode my hidden intentions, in the future, take note that the referenced comment was 100% snark by volume. If you’re still puzzled, I’m not sure how else to explain it.
      - csforstall
        
        Oh, cool. Explain your last paragraph for me.So ‘the internet’ is to blame for your perception that the protesters don’t care what you think?
        
        The way you perform you actions online is what I am talking about. The attitude and manner that you take as you deal with someone in a pseudonymonus way. I am not a human form to you, you cannot see me or my body language and I cannot see yours.
        
        Writing as an act requires a good deal more motivation then speaking. Thus what is written, especially online, contains a great deal of pathos. Your conversation with me is a good example. You wouldn’t continue with it if you didn’t feel that you had enough pathos invested in the conversation.
        
        Now the OWS has a great deal of pathos, in fact I would argue that at the moment that is all that is has to sustain itself. Now in the same manner in which you aggressively dog my comments with energy and moral feeling this is exactly the type of behavior that I am referring to when it comes to OWS.
        
        At no point does anyone take a step back and stop to think that maybe this person cared enough to offer an opinon. Rather it seems to be that there is this immediate pushback that I should offer up any advise outside of spending my non-existant money on a trip to the big city just so I can take part in a street occupation, or that I would even want too!
        
        The short of it is you don’t know my view, and my point is that you don’t seem to care (as your “oh, co0l,” in this usage at least, is just your set-up for your own shoot-down). And that is exactly the attitude that I am talking about with the OWS. This is a movement of the cities and I just happen to live far away from the polis and thus have a different perspective.
        
        I as audience to the OWS thus am left ”in the dark” due to the “lack of transprancy” (i.e. no offical spokesperson) yet I might be interested in what the people have to say. Yet agian no one seems to care enough to actually use all that technology to send out a resonable or coherent message. Instead the outpouring of pathos continues and OWSers get mad that I don’t want to be caught up in their intense wave of moral pathos. It’s the same with snarky online comments.
        
        And that I think is where you need to be more openminded. You may me outraged, you may be justified, but you must understand that not everyone is so caught up in the feelings of your moment. People can be reasoned with but pathos is not an end (or even comprehensible) unto itself.
        
        So no the interent is not “to blame,” it’s the fact that the OWS movement thinks the rest of the world lives on youtube and has no other interest other then just watching them occupy. I as a provencial frankly would like a more drawn out explanation and a greater transparancy, which I thought was supported by this movement. I care about the values that supposedly underpin the movement. It is of great interest to those of us not participating or unable to participate.
        
        You can’t judge a book by its cover and right now thats all that these protesters have shown us.
      - travtastic
        
        There’s nothing pseudonymous going on here. My name is Trav. Trav Tastic.
      - csforstall
        
        Effectively I have no voice with you, I’m not surprised. Thanks, and best of luck to you.
      - travtastic
        
        In my struggle against The Man, little did I know I would become The Man. Little did I know that my comments would literally delete your comments, just by existing. On a rare positive note, your supply of melodrama appears to be increasing at an unstoppable rate.
        
        Are we done now? Because I’m done. Good day, and thank you for your cooperation.
      - Antinous / Moderator
        
        In my struggle against The Man, little did I know I would become The Man.
        
        Try being The Gay for a week. It’s exhausting.
      - travtastic
        
        “Try” being The Gay.
        
        So it is a choice. I knew you guys would slip up sooner or later.
      - travtastic
        
        Have you ever actually disagreed with another person before?
        
        I don’t quite understand why you feel the need to psychoanalyze this conversation. I disagreed with someone, I made a comment to that effect, which apparently was a Wrong Thing because it wasn’t completely literal in every aspect. I’m going to continue to disagree, and I assume the people who disagree with me will do the same. This isn’t a kind of teaching moment, where we all realize (in unison!) how little empathy we have for our fellow man. It’s a comment thread. On a website that’s not even related to the movement.
        
        If you’d like to come out to one of the Occupies near me, I’d be glad to explain to you what we’re doing in great detail. Face-to-face, without even a hint of metaphor or a simile.
        
        Additionally, I feel I have to add that the comment in question wasn’t even directed at you or near you. Your first comment her is your indignant response to mine.
        
        Why are we even talking about this?
      - csforstall
        
        Why are we even talking about this?
        
        Because you made a comment that was full of feeling and it wasn’t at all apparent to whom it was directed.
        
        So this large volume of words is all about how you shouldn’t be surprised that I was confused, and that I misunderstood the meaning of your comment. Lets just leave it at that. I don’t hold grudges.
      - travtastic
        
        This would have gone down smoother if you could have just asked me to clarify my comment.
        
        …instead of providing a dozen paragraphs excoriating my lack of communication skills, and tying my one smart-assed interweb comment to the fate of the entire Occupy movement.
      - csforstall
        
        Look the web is a two way street and both of us share responsiblity. You will notice my admission that I misunderstood you. If you care or don’t care how I misunderstood you that is completely up to you and I’m not faulting you one way or the other.
        
        And I think we best leave the politics alone since, as I stated previously, you see my critics as negative (“excoriating”) rather then honest and constructive, and that fact alone, is where I draw my meta-commentary from. But like I said, enough of us talking past each other.
        
        I’m sorry things have gotten this out of hand. Lets please put this to rest.
    - SKR
      
      In the vast majority of the world and throughout the vast majority of human history, being a farmer and the entailing workload was not “ridiculously abnormal”. It has only been recently because of capitalism and the industrial revolution that working as hard as a farmer has become rare in industrialized countries.
      - travtastic
        
        I’m aware of this fact. I’m also aware that we currently live in America, in the present.
        
        I wasn’t even saying that the work is ridiculous, but that the comparison is ridiculous. We might as well be talking about how my job is clearly boring, as I’m not a professional escape artist.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  I’m a professional Boulder Pusher.
  
  Try Metamucil.
  - travtastic
    
    Metamucil might be okay for protesting; but for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try Megamucil. Don’t settle for less.
novium

I keep seeing this argument in a lot of places, and it kind of turns me off the movement. I’m actually all for a protest of the way we all got screwed coming and going by greedy people who robbed us blind, crashed the economy, got bail outs, and walked away scot-free (and with extra cash for their trouble). I’m all for protesting the way they’ve rigged the game over the last couple of decades to the point the very tippity top (and we’re not even talking the 1% here as much as the .05% or .01%) is getting a bigger and bigger share of the pie, then using that to buy themselves ever more influence in government.

Those are things worth protesting without you know, going into utopia land. I hate utopia land. More involvement in the government is good. Activism is good. To a certain extent, we’d never have gotten to this place if we (as a whole) hadn’t been so complacent and uninvolved in politics.

And hell, I like the uberparticipatory aspect of how OWS is organized (though it’s not as participatory and equal as it’d like to be- I’ve been reading a lot of criticism about how these protests all somehow end up being dominated by white dudes, who then do things like discourage reporting sexual assaults, etc), but as a model for a new world? Jesus. I’m actually not in favor of direct democracy on a large scale, or anarchy (the small-community sort, I mean, I don’t intend it in a disparaging way). Neither am I interested in repeating the commune experiments of the 60s.

Let’s just get something done here, you know? Push for the return of regulations, or a better tax system, or campaign finance reform, or jobs, or something to be done about the housing, or for justice. (which I was kind of under the impression was the point of all this.) There’s far too much navel-gazing already.
TheHowl

This infantry vet calls shenanigans.

He lost me when he claimed “these kids” (his words) have more courage, stamina, and fortitude for hanging out in a park than the rest of us do, y’know, actually going to work.
- travtastic
  
  You don’t need a paycheck to do work. Just because Rushkoff got all hyperbolic doesn’t mean that the exact opposite of what he said must be true.
http://www.tavie.com Tavie

This bit is gone from the site now:

(Yes, they work harder than pretty much anyone but a farmer or coal miner could understand.)</blockquote
http://twitter.com/Pjuter Marcel Oerlemans

“The whole thing is orchestrated through simple hand gestures”
And thus another elite is created, that part of the occupy-serfs who know the features, versus those who don’t…
- http://www.openbuddha.com/ Al Billings
  
  Because learning a total of three hand gestures is hard? Low achiever, eh?
  - travtastic
    
    The Tyranny of the Fingers.
http://www.facebook.com/Alendar Jeff Humphreys

“forging a robust micro-society of working groups.” That seems a little delusional.
hipstervictory

I really like a lot of Rushkoff’s work, but the idea that somehow the predominantly young and disenfranchized (that’s what they’re protesting against being, right?) protestors are somehow the harbingers of a new committee-run, consensus-driven society is a crock.
http://twitter.com/industitrust derin devlet

“Try being The Gay for a week. It’s exhausting.”

Then try Megamucil, I heard earlier in the thread that it oughta help things slide through.
http://www.facebook.com/namacdonald Nicholas MacDonald

Hmm…

… an independent national general assembly in a country that already has a congress?

… that determines policy by “consensus” rather than “debate”?

… and seems suspiciously intolerant of opinions that dissent against the will of a secretive in-group?

… where have I heard this before?

… Oh.
- travtastic
  
  … man, how did you forget to add a picture of Hitler strangling an orphaned kitten with ‘OCCUPY’ written across the bottom?
dainty

Could this be the dawning of the age of Aquarius?
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  Could this be the dawning of the age of Aquarius?
  
  Harmony and understanding — no.
  Sympathy and trust abounding — no.
  No more falsehoods or derisions — ahahahaha!
  
  Unless there’s a lost verse about amateur porn and catLOLs, I’m going to have to say no.
  - Teller
    
    You have nailed the milieu with a unicorn horn.