Guy Fawkes OWS bandanas

Matthew Borgatti is taking pre-orders for this saucy OWS Guy Fawkes bandanna, which has many useful features:

Fold this bandana in half to transform into the famous fawksy provocateur from the comic pages. It's perfect for protecting yourself from sudden dust storms and outbreaks of authoritarianism. Keep your neck warm during those cold sit-ins. Use it as an impromptu rucksack to cart your gear from Zuccotti Park when the cleaners come. Cut eye holes to wear as a full face mask for added anonymity. Flag Fawkes. This is the hanky code for revolution.
*For every bandana ordered one will be sent to one of the Occupy branches worldwide. Double your effect and increase the anonymity!*

OWS Bandanna (via JWZ)

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

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David Sean

In before a comment on Warner Brothers licensing fees.
daneyul

Really wish OWS would find another symbol.

One not associated with an insane 16th century religious terrorist…and one that looks less like Caesar Romero after a bad night.
lesserlesserwashington

I like, but at the same time I feel conflicted…a) profiting off of OWS should be a crime against the rebellion and b) is this guy a front for the FBI/CIA and even if not c) will the FBI/CIA get a warrant from FISA to track all the individuals who order this?
- Catbeller
  
  They don’t need a warrant. Patriot Acts 1 and 2.
VentcoreFrog

Why is Guy Fawkes still a thing?
- Catbeller
  
  Read the story.
waetherman

I’m not sure how exactly this went from a symbol for Anonymous to a symbol associated with OWS, but I think the actual product is great. It undermines the corporate control of the Guy Fawkes image, it supports OWS, and it’s actually a very well thought out piece of protester gear – this handkerchief is to protesters what a towel is to hitchhikers. I’ll take two.
- http://profiles.google.com/rjvg50 Kirk Holden
  
  Every movement needs a Halloween costume now? This symbolizes the confusion of the movement.
ChurchTucker

Oh great. PayPal. No thanks.
Guest

On one hand, I understand the necessity and legality of anonymity during political protests, but on the other hand I really hate stuff like this. People wearing masks during protests rarely do good things, and constantly associating OWS with stuff like this really damages it in the public’s eye.
- waetherman
  
  This is true. But wearing a mask shouldn’t be illegal, doing illegal things while wearing a mask should be illegal.
William George

Hopefully this will put an end to the “OWS is anti-capitalism” nonsense.
Lobster

I agree with OWS: the British government IS leading our country down the path of sin!
Plan B Books

Hypocrite. Stealing artist David Lloyd’s copyrighted design to create an anti-greed movement bandanna.
I don’t suppose he’s offering to pay royalties to the artist then?
- andygates
  
  Lloyd saw the kids using V masks at OWS and was reported to say that it was pretty cool.
  
  Once a thing gets out of product and into meme, it’s a bit late to talk licensing. You’re not consumable any more, you’re culture.
- waetherman
  
  David Lloyd doesn’t own the rights anymore – he apparently sold them to Warner Brothers aka Time Warner.
Richard Dagenais

The revolution will be productized.
sammybaby

“Fold this bandana in half to transform into the famous fawksy provocateur from the comic pages.”

Aha, FROM THE COMIC PAGES. I see. Not, you know, from actual real life. I suppose there are a lot of people who wish that England had been returned to Catholic rule…

(Yeah, I know V for Vendetta was a thing. Feh.)
citizen

Anonymity? Not with that Roger Klotz haircut…
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/TGZ75URQ6DKTCNXV3RV36ZKALQ Matthew

Just look at that bandana. Just LOOK AT IT!
- Jake von Slatt
  
  <3
dutchboy99

Capitalism.
ChicagoD

Dammit. I am always an idea short to make money off this thing. I wonder what I can get for pre-made signs . . .

Please. I thought this was exactly the sort of silly consumerism that was part of what is being protested. $17 for a bandana made in the Third World and silk screened (or something) with an image someone else created? Terrible.
- waetherman
  
  Well it’s actually made in Brooklyn, and $17 buys two; one for you and one for some random OWS protester. Think of it as a kind of One Anonymity Per Child project. Also the image is derived from someone else’s image (which is derived from another image) but it’s also a little more than just that – additional images, instructions on what to do if you get arrested, etc all add to the design.
  - ChicagoD
    
    I saw no evidence that the bandana itself is made in Brooklyn. The silk screening is done there, but his etsy page doesn’t say the bandana itself is. Do you have additional information on that? That would change my perspective somewhat.
    - waetherman
      
      Good point – you’re probably right. Though that’s hardly different than any “American” car or many of the shirts from American Apparel.
      - ChicagoD
        
        Sure. Of course, neither “American” cars and American Apparel have tied themselves to a movement that is, in part, anti-consumerist.
        
        Also, American Apparel claims to produce their garments in Los Angeles. The fabric, or even the yarn may be of non-US origin. Also, their ads are borderline pornographic.
      - davidasposted
        
        Also, their ads are borderline pornographic.
        
        Guy Fawkes would definitely not approve of that!
sugarsails

yeah, i understand overhead costs of making something, but if it were really for the movement you’d think he’d release the b&w image so protester/makers could screen their own
retrojoe

How rebellious…in a conformist sort of way.
http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/ J. Brad Hicks

If I had any reason to think that, in the two weeks’ time he’s set aside to take orders and do the print run, he won’t be served with a cease and desist order? I’d order at least one, myself, just as memorabilia. Some day, it could be worth something, the way copies of The Little Red Songbook are now.
Andrew Singleton

I like this product. It offers good advice. However I’m gonna have to second the ‘release the image file so we have a DiY option.
thealice

Actually if you are at OWS (as in NY), don’t wear this. It’s illegal for more than 2 people to wear a mask during a protest in NYC.
You’ll get arrested: http://gothamist.com/2011/09/19/nypd_uses_law_from_1845_to_arrest_m.php
http://twitter.com/civex Phil Stripling

Was I the only one being required to register and create an account to place an order? For an anonymous mask? No, thanks.
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/OKEONAMLFIOS5WI7MPQY6SXBCQ IRMO

To me, nothing quite says “FREEDOM” like the death mask of a theocratic terrorist who tried to kill his nation’s elected parliament in order to invite a foreign empire to take it over and tax farm it.
- Catbeller
  
  ’twas theocrats created by Henry VIII that decimated the Catholics of the country and pissed them off enough to blow their hypocritical heads to pieces. Their property was stolen ,families impoverished. All so H8 could get a new human blowup doll.
Emo Pinata

I always thought a Bauta was much more elegant for anonymity.
Teller

Good choice for OWS. It keeps the keffiyeh for pro-Palestinian marches and the basic redkerchief for misc demonstrations.
Strato Head

after looking at photos of yesterdays strike in Oakland, I find it funny that some folks choose to “mask up” to remain anonymous, yet they are shirtless with many many prominent tattoos… Anonymity FAIL. anyways… about the bandana…

With regards to releasing the image so others can make their own… nice idea… but I don’t have silk screening equipment at my disposal…and neither do most people. So I have no problem with paying someone else to make something like this for me. I don’t expect people to work for me for free…and after making costume pieces and props for people over the years on a “cost only fan to fan” basis, and operating at a loss…I have no issue with them making a few bucks for their efforts…especially on the understanding that I buy one, the artist donates one to OWS….sounds perfectly fair to me.

I’m personally less bothered by Guy Fawkes as a symbol of failed Catholic Repression, than I am with the fact that most of the Anon’s et al that are using the Lloyd designed Fawkes likeness got idea from the shit fest Wachowskis Bro’s film, and not from the brilliant comics by Alan Moore and David Lloyd…but that’s just because I feel the film misses the point Moore was attempting to make.

Americans never seem to grok irony… an the Fawkes image is Irony turned full circle. One pro-theocratic revolutionary, used as a symbol in a tome against fascists and repression, then turned into a commercial cashcow of film merchandising, largely resold to would be revolutionaries railing against crass corporate capitalism…etc etc… the whole thing makes me laugh pretty hard.
I ordered of these OWS bandannas personally…as I love the idea and the design. Remix, Remake, Revolt.
- Strato Head
  
  orderd 2 …sorry typo. p.s. this will also be a nice option instead of the plastic Fawkes mask which…is frankly not comfortable to wear for long periods…and OWS aside… Scientology isn’t going to protest itself.
http://www.kmoser.com kmoser

If Borgatti should pay licensing fees to Lloyd for appropriating his design, Lloyd should pay licensing fees to Fawkes’ family for appropriating Fawkes’ likeness. But the real joke is that the mask probably looks nothing at all like the real Guy Fawkes. In fact, it probably looks more like the Joker (a la Batman and Robin) than it does like Fawkes. Hmmm, maybe DC Comics should sue Lloyd? As for this bandana, it looks a lot like a mix of the Guy Fawkes Mask, the Joker, the Lone Ranger, Jack Sparrow, and Zorro.
Mister44

I like it. Anyone bitching about the clever guy needs to get over it. The bandana or what ever you are wearing now cost money. In this case, it isn’t from K-mart or some other big corporation, but one of the 99%.

If you insist on tearing down your fellow 99%ers and eating your own, any hope of real change is doomed.
- Lobster
  
  I’m selling dog turds on sticks. The dogs were farm-raised on a chemical-free, anti-biotic-free diet, and the sticks are all-natural and organic. $20 each.
  
  Support me, I’m part of the 99%.
  - mccrum
    
    I think it’s only fair of you to offer that the $20 actually sends a free one to an Occupy movement somewhere as well.
    
    Also, since shipping involves endorsing the petrochemical lobbyists, people should come to your place to get them.
    
    You’ve got to really go there to make sure some people around here know you’re not serious, otherwise you’re going to get people asking how to paypal you a twenty.
    - Lobster
      
      My friend, if someone wants to PayPal me $20 for a dog turd on a stick, I will be more than happy to oblige. I know where to find a hungry dog and a whole bunch of sticks.
      
      …That is if Mister44 will stop UNDERCUTTING me! Who are you going to trust, an honest dog-turd-on-a-stick salesman like me… someone like one of you? Or that 1%er who can afford to slash prices by using outsourced dogs and sticks from CHINA?
      - Mister44
        
        Honest? What entity is verifying your claim that your dog turds are from dogs who were “farm-raised on a chemical-free, anti-biotic-free diet”?
        
        I am afraid I am not some fancy turd farmer than can afford the luxury of fancy chemical-free dog food. As a blue collar dog living paycheck-to-paycheck he gets what ever is cheap with a coupon. But he is hard working dog, 100% American and produces quality turds s at regular intervals. I’ll take the Pepsi challenge against any other dog turd out there. I also have the occasional deposit by a Shar pei from down the block. He may be Chinesse, but he was born in America and I don’t appreciate your xenophobic tone.
      - Lobster
        
        My farms are regularly inspected and certified by the ADTFA, and my dog turds are guaranteed to be shipped fresh, packaged while they’re still warm! And unlike my competitors, I don’t think that all-natural excrement – or an honest, high-quality product – needs to be a luxury. Half of every sale goes directly to our state-licensed, American dog-turd artisans and stick craftsmen, and each turd comes with a notarized certificate of authenticity!
        
        LobsterTech Brand Dog Turds: So patriotic, you’ll think they came from an eagle.
        
        And sure we can do a podcast. Just PayPal $5 per episode to…
      - Mister44
        
        Everyone knows the ADTFA is the most inept and corrupt arm of the government and wouldn’t know a pig turd from a dog turd. I could get them to certify a small child as an organic dog turd for $20.
        
        Look – I’ll be honest – it sound like my competitor, LobsterBlech, has a better product. But then again, how fancy do you need your dog turds to be? Rolex makes NICE watches, but they don’t do anything more than a $10 Casio. If having ‘artisans’ and a certificate of authenticity is important to you, buy all means, buy from my competitor. I am sure the neighbors will be impressed.
        
        Our company is a hard working, 3rd generation family owned business. You will often find us up at 3am harvesting product. My grandfather pioneered the dog turd industry, starting first with wolves while prospecting for gold in the Yukon. As he was fond of saying, “Brown Gold is right under your nose!”
        
        We provide a quality product at an affordable price. Each of our dog turds are in our industry leading “Fresh-Seal” containers, with the plop date printed right on the package, giving you that “new-deuce” small that our turds are famous for. For additional savings look for our economy sized “barkers dozen”.
        
        NEW – Just in time for Christmas!
        
        We are pleased to announce a special run of “Flaming Turds in a Bag”. With our patented “Quik-Lite” bags, be the life of your family gathering with this classic practical joke.
        
        44 Acres – Acres of Turds, Acres of Pride
      - Teller
        
        If you go public, I would like to invest in your IPOO.
      - CastanhasDoPara
        
        I think we and our attorneys need to have a sit down to discuss your gross patent infringement. I have clear documentation that dog turds in a bag (flaming or otherwise) are patented and said patent is held by Castanhas Do Para’s Custom Dog Turd Creations LLC. In the interim before our meeting I must demand that you and your company cease and desist all further sales of “dog turds in bags” until this issue is resolved. Thank you for your cooperation.
        
        Sincerely,
        Castanhas D. Para, President/Owner Castanhas Do Para’s Custom Dog Turd Creations LLC
  - Mister44
    
    If I was in the market for dog turds on stick, I would consider it. Right now I have a dog turd overstock. If people need dog turds, I’ll sell them for $10 each, without a stick. I am passing the savings on to you! Those needing sticks in their turds can DIY at a fraction of the cost of my competitor’s.
    
    PS – one should buy something they like. If you don’t like it – don’t buy it. But one needn’t bitch at the guy for making the product and trying to sell it.
http://twitter.com/chrisfurniss Chris Furniss

Doesn’t matter where the symbol originated, the only thing that matters is what the symbol means in the here and now.
EH

I’d feel a lot better about this if the guy was going to publish how many were bought from IP addresses of law-enforcement agencies, and for $20 it should have the eye-holes precut.
http://twitter.com/james4765 Jim Nelson

Hehehe. I remember hearing the same griping about the V for Vendetta movie when I was a teen from the punks from the 80s, in reference to Rage Against The Machine.

It’s a great symbol, frankly, and like all symbols, contains contradictory elements. Very few of the Tea Party types, for example, who quote Jefferson would condone slavery, but you can take that quoting and turn it into “more clueless well-off white men ignoring the contradiction between their statement and living conditions”. But, he was also one of the most eloquent voices of the idea of personal liberty in history. So, you can take any symbol and analyze it into something completely at odds with the original intent. Doesn’t matter, though – the primary effect of a symbol is as a shorthand.

OTOH, wearing this will get your ass arrested in most cities – they have anti-mask ordinances in most places nowadays. We’ve had it in place for a long time, and we always have to warn out-of-towners, because the cops WILL use it as an excuse to arrest you.
http://rhinocrisy.org/ saurabh

I know you, and Alan Moore, feel this way, but how exactly does “the film [miss] the point Moore was attempting to make”? Moore’s point is not really that subtle. Lloyd used Nazi imagery to hammer the point home, for God’s sakes. The imagery, dialog, pacing, are all taken directly from the comic – only a few story points are left out. So, what exactly is the film “missing”? Or do you just hate it because it made money? The comic made money, too, you know.
- Strato Head
  
  I assume you were speaking to me on that one. And first off No… I don’t mind that the film made money. but a LOT more than “only a few story points are left out”, though the parts that were left out alone completlly shift the nature of the story , the character of Evey was completely retooled to the point of being a different character with different motivations. In the book, she was a teenager, so desperate to survive she was turning to prostitution on the streets, when she was set upon by a pair of finger men, who were about to brutally rape her, when V happened across them, and saved her on his way to set off a bomb. In the film she’s a poltically active middle class adult working for the TV station.
  The film completely white washes how the world got to be in the situation, let alone pretty much all of what happened at Larkhill.
  
  The only description we get of “V” in the novel is from Dr. Surridge, who describes only his eyes as “the most beautiful I’ve ever seen”…in the film it becomes “He HAD NO EYES AT ALL!” what…the…fuck? How does that work? V was only one man who inspired revolution, not a superhuman with no explicable reason given for his “powers”. Then theres the whole bulk shipping 100′s of thousands of masks and costumes to every citizen in the UK horseshit… while in the book Evey does say “choose what comes next. Lives of your own, or a return to chains”, there is no mass crowd scene with everyone dressed as “V”.
  
  oh…and that Yakkity Sax bit…that was straight from the novel as well…oh wait… not it wasn’t.
  by altering the characters in the way that they did for the film, and changing the massive plot points the way they did, the Wachoski’s payed lip service at best to Moores work. They turned into another flashy processed for the masses paplum blockbuster, without any depth of character to wrestle with… no moral choices beyond good or evil…and the evil isn’t even defined…it’s just evil for the sake of evil.
  
  Your milage may vary… but as someone who followed the novel from 1982 through the Vertigo conclusion….I find the film to be a load of glitzy offensive crap.
  but I am happy that I am able to finally get a decent copy of the Fawkes mask for my wall. so be it.
  - http://rhinocrisy.org/ saurabh
    
    Yeah, that was to you – sorry, the reply header got swallowed while I was logging in.
    
    I’m really not in agreement with you. I don’t think the film whitewashed Larkhill at all – there was plenty of imagery of human experimentation, prisoner abuse, mass graves – etc. There are differences between the film and the novel, yes, but I don’t think they’re tremendous, and I think they were mostly good. The final scene with everyone dressed as “V” was an excellent choice, and it does “one man who inspired revolution” quite well – the reason for their success is that everyone steps up, not because V is fast and good with knives. In addition the film has a number of moments that are far more trenchant than the novel manages – I’m thinking of the speech V gives over the airwaves, which is an excellent exhortation to the public to get up off their asses and do something for their own liberation. How is any of that lip service?
    
    The thugs, repression, etc., employed by the government are all as well-defined in the film as they are in the novel – the surveillance state, the abusive cops, and so on. I really don’t understand your perspective.
    - Strato Head
      
      in the film, the Bad Guys in power seize power by unleashing a chemical attack against their own people.
      in the novel, they seize power after a nuclear 3rd world war, using fear originally generated from outside the UK to establish that power, NOT creating their own WMD attack…. hell… watch the first 5-10 minutes of “Children of Men”… THAT is what the world in V for Vendetta should be like, the entire world gone to hell (in V nuclear war, in Children of Men…no more babies) and only the UK is still standing.
      
      the changes made, change character motivations, change the morality, change the meaning of the story,granted moral wise, it’s alot closer to it’s source than the film version of LoEG ; ). that’s my perspective. It’s pretty straight forward. Just my opinion though.
- http://grumer.org/ Avram Grumer
  
  The biggest difference between the film and comic is the ending.
  
  The film has a hopeful populist ending: The masses unite and take political power back for themselves.
  
  The comic has a much more cynical anarchist ending: It’s clear that there are any number of ways for the fascist police state to reemerge, and the only way to stop it is for individuals to walk away from power. That’s why V lets himself be killed (because he knows he’s almost as bad as the Leader), and why Finch walks away from Helen Heyer as she calls for him to help her become the nucleus of a new fascist government.
- CountZero
  
  Exactly what I thought when I saw it. And I bought the first release comics, not a later graphic novel.
http://twitter.com/writebastard Ian Wood

“I was also quite heartened the other day when watching the news to see that there were demonstrations outside the Scientology headquarters over here, and that they suddenly flashed to a clip showing all these demonstrators wearing V for Vendetta [Guy Fawkes] masks. That pleased me. That gave me a warm little glow.”

~Alan Moore
July 2008
Entertainment Weekly

So there’s that. Pay $17, wear a bandana, go protest, give Alan Moore a warm little glow in his…wherever that happens for him.
http://www.jjsaul.com Jim Saul

If the official protest dress code is mime, are we going all the way…

Is everyone at the march supposed to pretend they are marching into a stiff wind?

Pretend to be trapped in a glass box when kettled?

Fake tug of war with cop phalanxes?
Navin_Johnson

Personally, I’m not really a fan of the folks wearing masks and such. I’m not sure how much it helps vs. turns off other people who might be on the fence of coming out to join. Of course the cops know to target and mix it up with such folks as well if they want to create chaos.

As for the pedigree of the scarves themselves, I find the argument lol-worthy. People who have a predisposed opinion of #OWS would not be happy no matter how they were made. It also is part of an opposing narrative/fallacy that suggests that #OWS are somehow hypocritical if they operate within the parameters of a system that they don’t really have any control over.
http://profiles.google.com/bentobjects Terry Border

Makes idiots who wear it feel cool, but does nothing positive for Occupy. These masks put off regular people who otherwise would feel a connection with the movement. Probably better to bring people in that to alienate, but maybe that’s just me.
- GlenBlank
  
  These masks put off regular people who otherwise would feel a connection with the movement. Probably better to bring people in that to alienate
  
  Personally, I think this particular image is a poor choice; but I also think the idea that ‘regular people’ who sit on the sidelines doing nothing would join in, if only they weren’t ’alienated’ by minor stylistic tics like this, is patently ridiculous.
  
  People who can be alienated by a Guy Fawkes mask will always find some trivial reason to continue sitting on the sidelines, deploring the style choices of the people they claim to support.
  
  If it’s not the Guy Fawkes masks, it will be the supposedly ‘Soviet’ style of the strike posters, or the wording of the slogans, or the dirty faces and straggly clothing of the people who’ve been camping on sidewalks, or the noise of the drummers, or the vulgarity of the angry chants, or the profiteering of the bandanna-makers – and so on and so forth.
  It will always be something.
  
  The armchair quarterbacks won’t be getting out of their armchairs no matter what you do, so it’s best to just ignore them.
  - http://profiles.google.com/bentobjects Terry Border
    
    I couldn’t disagree more with you. Image matters. Don’t you think public opinion is swayed when viewers see people like themselves (teachers, union people, veterans) protesting, and not just rebellious people with masks? That’s why it’s so important that all parts of the 99% are seen at the protests. People need to be constantly reminded that this isn’t about the fringe, it’s about all of us.
    - daneyul
      
      My feelings too.
      
      People can have all kinds of subjective ideas about what the symbol means–but the bottom line is, using a creepy, mocking, kind of evil looking visage (with all kinds of negative associations) as the face of a “people’s movement” is just not particularly helpful.
      - http://twitter.com/sfslim Aaron Muszalski
        
        “People can have all kinds of subjective ideas about what the symbol means” — “but the bottom line is [that my subjective interpretation is clearly the correct one, and the one upon which decisions about using the symbol should be made]”
        
        I think I shall never cease to find wonder in the ability of the human mind to encompass such completely contradictory concepts, and to so blithely express them within the space of a single short sentence. We wield cognitive dissonance like a streetcorner monte dealer throws cards, keeping our own self-awareness as eternally elusive as the red lady herself.
        
        For what it’s worth, I find the Fawkes symbol far more mirthful than sinister: an inscrutable zen jester, long since divorced from history, both recent (V for Vendetta) and of yore (Fawkes himself). Or rather, a many-faceted symbol, now richly overlaid with resonances and associations far broader and more complex then can be encapsulated by any single point of view. And of course, therein lies its strength; not so dilute as to be meaningless, nor so singular as to be easily deconstructed or dismissed. Making it virally — memetically — highly infectious.
        
        But then, this is just one person’s subjective interpretation, not any universal “bottom line” by which a single symbol carries universal meaning for all. Would that we all had your clarity.
      - GlenBlank
        
        Well said, Aaron.
        
        …and besides, it’s hard not to laugh at anyone who would employ the phrase “bottom line” to try to claim the high ground in *this* particular discussion.
        
        :-)
      - CountZero
        
        It’s my subjective interpretation as well, you’ve just (thankfully) expressed it far better than I ever could. Thank you, sir.
    - VentcoreFrog
      
      Agreed. And after last night’s incidents in Oakland, with the violence being blamed on a fringe group in “black masks,” it would be extremely counterintuitive to try and proliferate black masks.
      - Catbeller
        
        “Fringe group”, hell. Just like the mysterious “anarchists” that showed up to end the WTO protests in Seattle ten years ago. So convenient, so masked.
    - GlenBlank
      
      I don’t think there’s any prospect at all of the OWS protests being perceived as “just rebellious people with masks” – I think that’s just an absurd strawman of your invention.
      
      And, while I suspect I may have a somewhat lower regard for “public opinion” than you do, I wasn’t talking about “public opinion” – I was talking about the idea of “bringing people in” to the movement who might otherwise be ‘alienated’ by an ill-chosen symbol. Those people will never be “brought in”, no matter how carefully we tailor our iconography to avoid offending them.
      
      Frankly, I seriously doubt that there are any significant number of people who actually make their decisions on such a ridiculously flimsy basis. At most, people who are fishing for some rationalization for their non-participation or non-support will seize on this as a handy excuse.
      
      But if they didn’t have this, they’d find something else.
      
      Besides, anyone whose opinion or involvement *can* hinge on something so trivial isn’t worth having on our side – they’d eventually betray us over something equally trivial.
      - ChicagoD
        
        I think Glen is right, but not for the reasons he states. A lot of people suspect that “no matter how carefully we tailor our iconography to avoid offending them” is exactly what this movement is about. In other words, they suspect that OWS does not represent their interests and that if OWS did not carefully tailor its iconography it would be clear how much they don’t represent the interests of normal working people. Frankly, your posts would be Exhibit 1 in this thought process. How can the 99% “betray” you? I mean, we are who we are and the government and corporations have done what they’ve done. Where does “betraying” YOU come in to it?
      - GlenBlank
        
        Fox News fans and Rush Limbaugh groupies are part of the 99%, too; but no matter how much they rage about “dirty hippies”, I won’t be cutting my hair to appease them.
      - ChicagoD
        
        OK. And they won’t support you or the movement. I am not sure I see the point of going to the trouble to camp out while simultaneously telling 80% of the 99% to go to hell, but to each his own.
      - GlenBlank
        
        I am not sure I see the point of going to the trouble to camp out while simultaneously telling 80% of the 99% to go to hell
        
        Oh, please. Dramatic concern troll is dramatic.
        
        If I thought that my not cutting my hair, or some people wearing Guy Fawkes bandannas, was anything even remotely like “telling 80% of the 99% to go to hell”, I might reconsider.
        
        But I don’t, so I won’t.
        
        Frankly, I don’t think anywhere near “80% of the 99%” are that shallow and superficial.
        
        (And If I did, I’d probably abandon all this as a hopeless cause.)
        
        (But I don’t, so I won’t.)
  - Navin_Johnson
    
    It’s not a minor “stylistic tic”, masks are associated with a minority of people who come to stir stuff up, and it’s no wonder that cops often deliberately dress like that when they’re trying to infiltrate or cause problems. When you see masked/black bloc folks that look like they’re suited up for a battle, that frightens a lot of people who might otherwise want to participate.
benher

Screw you, cool-bandana nay-sayers.

It always bugs me when people suggest that anyone who is opposed to extreme greed in the US oligarchy (but forced to live within it by no free choice of their own) should somehow be condemned for working within the very system they seek to subvert.
What alternative would you propose? Perhaps they should go form a commietopia in a mythical offshore island made of unicorn carcasses, eat nuts and berries, create cruelty-free organic badanas with a 100% original design, THEN re-incorporate back into capitalist society, THEN subvert said society?

Also, I think you’re confusing “conformist” with “solidarity.”
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/TGZ75URQ6DKTCNXV3RV36ZKALQ Matthew

I think a Rorschach bandana would be much more appropriate for protesting the “establishment,” if you think about his character in Watchmen…
- Strato Head
  
  maybe for the Anon’s going after Los Zeta’s Cartel maybe… or are we now advocating killing White Collar Criminals? cuz Rorschach’s whole rasion d’etre was a no holds barred attempt to punish criminals. period. Not standing up for the little guy, not basic fairness…but to punish the wicked, as he saw fit.
mccrum

I still prefer the version where we all yell “I am Sparticus!”
http://artdonovan.typepad.com Art

I agree, daneyul.
Screw the idiotic ‘Guy Fawkes’ image.
http://artdonovan.typepad.com Art

Guy Fawkes- A ridiculous and unrelated image for a VERY serious and important movement.
- Catbeller
  
  Alan Moore would disagree with you.
Navin_Johnson

They need to make a rock em’ sock em’ big budget movie about Robespierre….
Mister44

Re: People down on the Fawkes masks

A symbol is what you make it. (Godwin in 3 – 2 -1) The swastika was one of the oldest and most widely used symbols known to man. It was a very popular motif during the Art Deco period. (I friend has a set of Rudyard Kipling books which has the title pages framed in swastikas.) For years and years it was primarily a good luck symbol. I have one on an old screwdriver of my grandpas. It was a sacred symbol to the Navaho (who pledged to stop using it during WWII.)

In most of the world the symbol is demonized and linked to evil. (Though in many places in Asia it has survived as a good luck symbol.)

So no matter what Guy Fawkes did, how good the movie or graphic novel was, or what their meanings were – taking the mask and giving it new meaning only requires one to do so.
Josiah White

“Beware and enterprise that requires new clothes” – Henry David Thoreau
tvugly

This symbol is embarrassing. The movement deserves better than a prop from an ok movie from 2006.
- Catbeller
  
  DEEP breath. “V” is a story written in the 80s by one Alan Moore about anarchy, fascism and revolution. The mask is from that novel. It is not a prop from the movie.
  - tvugly
    
    Sigh.. i know.. I was mostly just being snarky (which i know doesn’t help.) But my point still stands. And having originated from the works of a humorless comic book writer doesn’t exactly lend that symbol any more power.
samovar100

The last line on the bandana boy’s website states ever so pompously:
“We are ANONYMOUS. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us”

Yeah. “Expect” us on Etsy.
http://twitter.com/mikeestee Mike Estee

I really like capitalism. I like the idea that a person can have an idea, go through the hard work of designing, manufacturing, marketing and selling it to a group of people. I like the idea that through hard work, if you make something enough people like, that they will give you money in exchange for your idea. You can use this money to further your other ideas.

I also like the idea that there are people who will profit from the #OWS movement. Shocking, I know, but to me that means that there is a market of people who will vote with their dollars to spread this idea. As loosely defined as this one is.

To me, OWS is about a fair playing field for the American Dream. I have nothing against the banking industry per say, I have nothing against a market that rewards ingenuity and makes some of its players filthy rich. I’d like to be filthy rich myself in fact. I’d like to buy a warehouse full of machine tools and design stuff with it all day long. Someday, if I can figure out how to make a thing that enough people want, I’ll be able to do that. What I have a problem with, is people who have amassed so much wealth that they can now game the system so that the rules they have to follow are not the rules that everyone else has to follow.

That’s what the banking industry has done. This is why they must be brought down, taken apart, and replaced with financial institutions that are committed to a level playing field. We don’t need a “free market”, what ever that means. We need a fair market.

If a religious terrorist becomes the ironic symbol of that idea, I’m all for it being printed on scarves.
Catbeller

And every purchase can be tracked by credit card and shipping address. Can’t revolt anymore kids, they can roll back time and find out anything they like.
http://artdonovan.typepad.com Art

You have my permission to jump all over me about this, but I think that BoingBoing (whom I greatly admire and respect) is making a major mistake in posting (and hence promoting) this Fawkes/face mask thing.
GlenBlank

It’s not a minor “stylistic tic”, masks are associated with a minority of people who come to stir stuff up, and it’s no wonder that cops often deliberately dress like that when they’re trying to infiltrate or cause problems. When you see masked/black bloc folks that look like they’re suited up for a battle, that frightens a lot of people who might otherwise want to participate.

Well actually, I think masks and ‘black bloc’ tactics are a very bad idea, for precisely that reason (and several others, as well) – and I’ve spent a lot of time and effort trying to persuade my compatriots not to do that.

But that’s not what people here have been objecting to. They’ve been objecting to the Guy Fawkes symbolism of *this particular* bandanna/mask, and worrying that that symbolism would ‘alienate’ the sideliners.

And the difference between *that* and any *other* bandanna/mask *is* a minor stylistic tic.

The use of masks generally is a whole ‘nother kettle o’ worms – but it’s not what this conversation has been about (until now).
GoGo Vicmorrow

I’ll just repost my comment on a more recent OWS thread.
Andrew Singleton

Lobster. Mister44. Any chance we could get you two together for a podcast of the War of the Dog Turd Salesmen? I’m not able to sleep and this thread is amusing me, at least… you two are anyway.’

@twitter-15220792:disqus You put it way better than anyone I know. Make a product. Put it out for the world to see and like/not like with their money. Then allow everyone else that same basic right with neither favoritism or condemnation with intervention being applied only when it’s clear the system is being gamed to drive up the prices of Dog Turds.

Speaking of. the Dog Turds I’m offering arn’t going to come on just any old stick off the ground. It’ll come on uniform width handles that have a little ridge around the middle so the turd won’t slide down onto your hand, and the Dogs will be fed the choicest of materials rather than this inferrior mess that my competetors are feeding THEIR dogs. Not that there’s a problem with their product, I’m sure it’s quite fine. However if you want Premium Turd on a roundel then I’m your guy.

$30 a pop though. Sorry, quality costs. Oh and I offer inspections of the roundel making process and have public access to my Dogs. Don’t worry, they’re quite friendly.
http://twitter.com/Skyhawk1 skyhawk1

Maybe Rood Hood might be a better icon. Guy Fawkes was extreme.
- Lobster
  
  What about Bubb Rubb? The 99% goes WOOOOOOOO!!!
CastanhasDoPara

Hahahaaaaa, capitalism, fuck yeah!.

As a Dog Turd retailer I just checked my stock and realized I’m in need of some more dog turds, the ones I have in stock currently are all dried out and have lost that new turd smell. It really is the smell that one is after anyway, well that and their throwability. But now with multiple vendors to choose from how do I know I am getting what I want or even what I pay for? Is there anyway I can get a couple of samples?

Also, if anybody is interested I recently created this fun alternative to Dog-Turds-On-A-Stick. I call it the Dog-Turd-In-A-Bag. It’s simply a high-quality dog turd enveloped by an all-natural brown paper bag. They’re great as gifts and I can even have a custom logo or message printed on the bag for a small extra fee. Get one for your boss, for your neighbor that likes his loud music at 3 AM, or for the ex in your life that didn’t quite get the memo. With a thousand uses you can’t deny that Castanhas Do Para’s patented Dog-Turd-In-A-Bag is the perfect gift for just about anybody that needs a clear concise message in a bag. (Lighters or matches sold separately, see my website for a full catalog. This product is not guaranteed for any purpose nor do we make any claim of usability or merchantability for any specific purpose. We are not responsible for misuse, incidental damage, mishandling or legality issues arising from the use of this product.)
http://twitter.com/ninbroken52 Rev Anthony

What a great way to show that I’m anti-capitalistic! How many should I buy??