By Cory Doctorow at 12:23 am Sat, Nov 29, 2008
TEACHING FISCAL DISCIPLINE
Would make an amusing trap though.
It’s been taken down from the merchant’s site. apparently someone bitched loud enough that they realized this MIGHT not be appropriate.
It’s funny–the irony isn’t wasted on teenage girls. clm yr sly rrtbl sns f ndgntn.
So wrong on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start.
Naw… that’s funny.
This would be a funny gift to get the secretary at work for a gag gift. But for a girl’s bedroom? Out of place.
t’would serve canopically for its author. I’d be happy to facilitate.
I agree with #3 BARTAX. It’s harmless. If anything, it pokes fun at modern, fake boob culture.
This would be a funny gift to get the secretary at work for a gag gift.
Do you work in a 1960’s ad agency? Cause otherwise I’d secure a really good lawyer specializing in sexual harassment law.
It’d be funny only if so many girls didn’t have such whacked-out self-image issues and think they do need “boob jobs.”
I agree with #3, it’s clever and funny. Girls with, to quote #10, “whacked-out self-image issues”, will be neither persuaded nor dissuaded by an ironic piggy bank.
My first thought, looking at it, was that it was tacky and lame.
I suppose it is funny in the way that “I’m with stupid” t-shirts are. That is to say, not particularly.
And girls go along with a lot of things that make them feel like shit and laugh and pretend it is fine. But teenaged girls, as has been pointed out, are often in a lot of pain. This doesn’t help. If a girl were to buy it for herself, fine. If anyone else were to buy it for her, it would be pretty insensitive at the very least.
It is not ironic if you don’t choose it for yourself.
To be fair, unless it’s a good bit larger than the usual child’s coin bank it’s a post ironic statement rather than an actual “when it’s full I’ll get my chest blown up” fiscal deposit.
Women have ruled our lives for centuries, if the only ‘control’ we have is to make them think the size of their breasts are important to us, I’m all for it.
S Cry r y wrtng rtcls fr th Dly Ml nw rthr thn th Grdn?
Looking at the other stuff on the site, I’d say its aimed at older girls, and that it’s supposed to be ironic / jokey.
When it comes to irresponsible advertising, perhaps BB could look a little closer to home? – say at the “Absinthe: open your mind” advert that keeps displaying over there>>>>>
I vote against
You girls may be cool hip and ironic, they probably laugh at this as it sits on their dresser as evidence of their coolness. But the problem is what it connotes by its existence as an ironic joke for kids.
Just because kids are cool and knowing doesn’t preclude them also being malleable by subtle social cues.
The conscious mind may be enjoying the irony, while the subconscious is thinking – “hmmm, a boob job, yes that will bring me love”.
We aren’t influenced as much by people saying “Buy coca cola” as we are by the presence of a coke machine and an awareness of the brand. That’s what drives a sale – pervasiveness.
Plastic boobs area terrible anyway, I’ve never understood the attraction. Yack.
Yup, this site is not meant for kids:
These dice for instance, encourage the user to “make love… in the car” :
and many of the products feature “hunks” in states of undress:
This site is aimed at the same people as “more” magazine, with it’s regular “position of the fortnight” column…
It’s no surprise that women are as obsessed with tits as men. Both sexes share the primary experience of Mother, that loving, nurturing, tit-baring and tit -sharing Other. It is, in common, our primal memory.
Only bottle-fed babies (like me) grow up not giving a damn, one way or another.
“Buddy, do you like my tits?”
“Uh â€” sure.”
You’re going to have to put twenties in it.
But this will give parents a reason to discuss body image issues and encourage saving during the coming economic crisis. Two for one.
Oh noes, the next thing you know our precious little snowflakes might visit a Spencer Gifts!
i think it is very funny……….
It’s not the seeing of it, or even the having of it, if they acquire it themselves, that I object to in teens. It is the idea that it would make an appropriate gift. It’s inherently hostile.
Take Buddy66’s comment. Flip it around and apply it to another oppressed group, say blacks, and you get more of the sense of it.
It’s not that I’m outraged by either the bank or such comments, more like I find them tiresome. And of course, I am not supposed to mention it. Women who comment that such things are not particularly funny and that they show a lack of taste and a lack of thought are NOT GOOD SPORTS. I mean WHAT’S THE MATTER WITH YOU PIP, DON’T YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR?
Clearly, my training to be a good sport, which I got as all females in this culture got, as a young woman, did not take. Which is surprising, because even if they’d object when they were younger, by the time they’re in their teenaged years, most women have learned the lesson very well indeed.
When these sorts of “jokes” are thrown my way, I usually just roll my eyes and think less of the person who has presented it. It is hostile, but social custom penalizes those who object. So it isn’t worth the bother.
But when you offer this to kids, even when they might participate themselves (Because gosh, we can’t think of any examples of people participating in their own oppression/belittlement/control, can we?), then I am going to step up and say something. I’m not controlling, matronizing, or condescending to the kids. I’m anti censorship. I have no problem with them going into some crap gift store in the mall and seeing it, in its proper context next to the edible underpants and the dildo swizzlesticks and the line of tacky greeting cards with artwork so bad that they want to throw up in their mouths a little. Then they can trot right in to Hot Topic and pick up some NBX t-shirts and an Emily Strange purse and shake off that icky feeling.
It’s just an icky little gift.
I think the business end should be smaller and off-center.
Either way, it has all the wit of cock-nose glasses.
Y knw, pstr, srcsm sn’t lmtd t wrds.
fr n thnk t’s hlrs- mch bttr thn frcng yr gky ntrsts n smn thrgh pl f bks thy prbbly dn’t cr bt
You rock, Pip.
Jokes are serious business and can be used a much for enforcing cultural strictures as for bashing ’em. While this arguably could fall into the second camp in the right circumstance, it mostly falls into the first–reinforcing messages of negative self image. I don’t care who you are, your boobs are OK.
Not to take anything away from Pip’s excellent dismantling, but this reminds me more of the “Old Farts” gag-gift bottle that my Mom’s cousins pass around to each other every year.
Sometimes more disrespect is shown when they’re treated like weak minded little children who cannot recognize humor or irony.
Wait a minute…
Take Buddy66’s comment. Flip it around and apply it to another oppressed group, say blacks, and you get more of the sense of it.
What’s wrong with my comment? Flip it around, as you suggest, and all it still says is I don’t much care what a woman’s tits look like. Hence the remembered dialogue.
I agree with Pip, whole-heartedly.
I think it’s tacky, unsuitable for a gift for a woman of any age. Women don’t need boob jobs, they primarily done for the sake of vanity and nothing else (unless you a cancer survivor and having replaced what was removed).
I’ve seen worse products though. When Kohl’s first opened up in So.Cal, the one I visited had these brightly colored, intricately knitted socks screaming “I LOVE TINA” all over them. My only thought was their poor sock designer must have one helluva of substance abuse problem and an incredibly clueless product development and merchandising department or they were simply catering to the needs and likes of their original Midwestern customer base. Tough call.
I’m pretty tired of “oh come on, it’s just a joke.” It’s pretty shitty when your discomfort or even your outrage is dismissed so casually. Lighten up, it’s just a joke.
So? Who’s TINA?
Why are those socks worse than the little pink jar that has stirred so much ire?
It’s pretty shitty when your discomfort or even your outrage is dismissed so casually.
A good day is when I’ve dismissed at least three or four levels of someone’s meta-outrage before breakfast.
Lighten up. It’s semiotic humor. Laugh.
I’ll make you a deal. You stop dismissing other people’s opinions in an arrogant and male chauvinist fashion and I’ll consider taking you seriously.
Well, it sure is interesting….
Must say it does bother me because I think one of the last things women of any age need in their bedroom is a decoration pointing out that part of themselves should be changed.
It’s just not necessary.
There are a whole lot of angry comments, and everyone seem to forget one important fact. Interactions between two people (including gift giving) have to be have to be evaluated on a individual level. You have to understand the gift givers intent and the nature of the person who receives it.
I think that angstrom (#18 right now) makes a point that bears repeating — it’s the pervasiveness of an expression that makes it a reinforcing social norm, not necessarily the outlandishness of the expression. It isn’t the shocking or ironic one-off gag gift that my daughter sees that worries me, it’s the endless parade of expressions, both in the media and the general culture, that suggest that she’s somehow broken and needs fixing.
Re: #3: it hasn’t been taken down, it’s still there, under “Weird Stuff”.
I have to say I’d be pretty disappointed if they had taken it down because “someone bitched loud enough that they realized this MIGHT not be appropriate”.
Now if they had taken it off because it wasn’t selling, then I might have more hope for humanity.
It isn’t the shocking or ironic one-off gag gift that my daughter sees that worries me, it’s the endless parade of expressions, both in the media and the general culture, that suggest that she’s somehow broken and needs fixing.
Exactly. I can count on one hand the number of women I’ve met who are actually happy with the way they look. This is not because they’re ugly. In fact, a number of them are stunningly gorgeous. It’s because women are told over and over that our bodies aren’t good enough. My mom – an outspoken, opinionated, strong woman – got a boob job because she literally felt ashamed to be seen in public with her A-cup breasts. That experience is far too common and far too fucked up for this piggy bank to be anywhere near funny.
@43 tc. Grn. Grw spn. Men get this too, we grow up being rejected by women for mostly arbitrary reasons. It’s tough. It’s life.
Men get this too, we grow up being rejected by women for mostly arbitrary reasons.
Whereas when women are rejected by men, it’s always completely logical?
And I guess men sometimes getting rejected would be why men are shamed for their bodies everywhere they turn. That’s why there’s an entire cosmetics industry selling things to men on the grounds that they don’t look good enough. And that’s why men are always dieting and trying to drop a dress size, and why anorexia is so much more prevalent in men than in women. And would that also be why men are taught that they have to be skinny and blond to be attractive, whereas women have Seth Rogen and Will Ferrell and Jack Black and all those other actresses that remind them all body types have the potential to be attractive?
It’s not arbitrary at all. Gynecologists have been consistently recommending women have nothing to do with douchebags for at least 15 years now.
The reason that this bothers people is that it’s a particularly bad example of the type of damaging message that women are bombarded with every day. It wouldn’t even make sense to us without this context!
This little piece of ceramic crap doesn’t exist in a cultural vacuum.
I suppose it might be an appropriate gag gift for someone who has already expressed to the giver an interest in such an operation. After all, it doesn’t say whether it’s for enlargement or reduction.
Giving this to anyone who hasn’t already talked about the surgery is invasive and crass. Not to mention anyone under the age of 18.
Enlarging breasts would not be
The most common cosmetic surgery
If cocks were hung for all to see
Giving new meaning to
Taking the measure of a man
Size makes a difference
In all things great and small
Always has, always will
And if that hurts
You’re counting yours
With the wrong people
This site is full of Spencers-quality merchandise, and I am pretty sure this bank is meant to be ironic. Sort of like the tip jar at one of our local coffee joints that reads “Margarita fund.” It’s not classy, but it’s not mortally offensive. I mean, it could just as easily have said “Hair Transplant Fund…” or “Retirement Savings.” And I don’t think it’s any more or less tacky than the “handsome cowboy” body-pillow.
And I can hear my mother saying
“Every old sock meets an old shoe”
Isn’t that a great saying?
“Every old sock meets an old shoe”
Here come the Hills of Time
A terrible parent: Buys this for their daughter.
A worse parent: Buys this for their son.
“No no, there’s nothing wrong with you, son. It’s just that we’d really rather have a daughter…”
Women are tired of being objectified as sex objects, but men are also tired of being objectified as success objects. Women will judge a man on his economic status, or his status relative to other males. If you gave a man a picture frame that said sugar daddy, that would also be offensive. In popular culture, men who are lower on the money/status ladder are subjects of ridicule. How many citcoms show the clueless father ? Negative ideas are out there about both sexes and all races.
I dunno there, what with the lower wages, the rape, millennia of oppression and all the other bullshit, I tend to think women kind of get the short end of the stick. You’re a guy, right?
Women will judge a man on his economic status, or his status relative to other males.
Or men stereotype women as judging men on their economic statuses so they can blame it on women’s superficiality and not their own shortcomings when they get rejected.
How many citcoms show the clueless father ?
And how many men identify with those sitcom fathers? I find sitcom portrayals of men to be completely untrue and insulting to men, but I know plenty of dudes who see themselves as fun-loving guys who just want to sit around and drink beer with their buddies, but their wife/girlfriend keeps nagging at them to grow up and be responsible adults (and why is it that the schlubs on those shows always get rewarded with super-hot wives/girlfriends?). Slacker dads on sitcoms villify responsibility and associate it with femaleness.
Negative ideas are out there about both sexes and all races.
True, but you’ll notice that as Takuan said, women get the short end of the stick, kind of like non-white folks get the short end of the stick.
Time to sharpen the stick.
This “gift” is neither harmless, nor is it the end of the world. Bottom line: it’s tacky crap that deserves none of our precious thought-time. I’m going to go and do something worthwhile…like the dishes.
I dunno … I was kind of an unsuccessful semi-pro slacker most of my life and I never had much trouble getting laid.
Almost every man and woman, at some time or another, has been a sex object to someone. Isn’t that what all the fucking is about?
Most cultures either treat women like shit or try to make them feel like shit. I wouldn’t take the job for anything less than being a titled member of a secular European royal house.
When anyone throws around generalisations, I feel the need to say something. Lauren, non-white folks dont always get the short end of the stick. It is entirely based on your environment. Its _MINORITIES_ that always get the short end of the stick as they are an easy target for the majorities. White people in predominantly black environments will be discriminated against just like black people in white areas will. Its not just about color (color is just marking which tribe you belong to) its about belonging to a numerically weaker group which is an easy (ie cannot muster the numbers to fight back) target by the majority.
White people in predominantly black environments will be discriminated against just like black people in white areas will.
Like the tiny white minorities who dominated and oppressed vast numbers of black people in African countries?
Yup, this site is not meant for kids
Nope, it’s definitely meant for kids, specifically teenage and pre-teen girls. From their “About Us” page: “This site offers room fashions for females between the ages of 13-22.”
Their Press Highlights page indicates that they’re all over Seventeen (which I personally stopped reading at 15), Girls’ Life (for 10-15yo girls), and–wow, there’s a Cosmo Girl (Find out “What Guys Really Want”!):
Oh, and as far as I’m concerned, Pip said all that needs saying.
well, their souls were jeopardized by all the temptation the wicked majority put their way to tarnish themselves by committing acts of oppression.
“unsuccessful semi-pro slacker”, uh, does that mean you worked real hard all the time? Why do I think of The Dude? On that vein, has anyone ever put
“Lebowskyist” under “religion”?
Its _MINORITIES_ that always get the short end of the stick as they are an easy target for the majorities.
I guess that’s why women, as 51% of the world’s population, earn more money than men and are overrepresented in virtually all the world’s governments.
Friends… this is camp. Not tramp. Nauseating, but not naughty. Ok, the 13-15 year old portion of the demographic is probably out, but I would say 17-22 is very much in play.
And if you disagree, then I’d like to see a little more moral outrage over the pulchritude inherent in that big, red-lipped kissy phone, ok?
My god, you’d think they were selling Hello Kitty vibrators or something… (oh wait, they do- but that’s another web site altogether. Don’t believe me? Google it.
clear proof of the evil Female Conspiracy since they still manage to keep their superior position A TOTAL SECRET!!
The Dude? I hate bowling.
But my father did like to say that I worked harder at getting out of work than anybody he ever knew.
Grouchy old man. Just because he suffered the agonies of the Protestant work ethic, he thought everybody should. Misery seeking company.
Typically, it was the women in my family who REALLY worked hard. They were in it for the long haul. And for half the price.
as I understand it, the bowling is optional. True observance revolves around the bathrobe, the beverage and the Quest for the Rug.
now THIS will piss you off
A rich man is any man who makes one dollar more than his brother-in-law.
Thank goodness gay men only care about integrity and depth of character when evaluating potential mates.
Frank in Virginia @15:
Puny male, you have incurred my displeasure. Drop and give me fifty, or I shall have to speak to your aunts.
Pipenta @25: It’s one of the things I keep forgetting to add the moderation guidelines: “If, while you’re being a complete jerk to someone, you claim that what you’re doing is humorous, and you tell them they need to cultivate a sense of humor, your chances of survival will plummet.” I’ve never seen someone pull that routine who was actually being funny. It’s always a demand that you accede to their bullying.
Shecky @28, I know funny, and I know ironic, and that jar isn’t either of them. I also know what it’s like to be a little girl who’s given no respect. So pleas, won’t you be so kind as to take your “Lighten up, folks,” and put it where the sun’s light ne’er shall fall? Thank you.
Noneofyourbusiness @34: Who’s Tina?
My theory about this jar is is that it was devised in China by someone whose grasp of American culture and idiomatic English was not as sure as they thought.
Manonpinkcorner @37, you keep your vowels only because Antinous already reproved you. Please take your “lighten up” and let it have a playdate with Shecky’s.
Which reminds me: Frank in Virginia, do I have those fifty pushups yet? If not, why not? This dawdling of yours is not at all attractive.
Pseudonym @53, you just wish you were being objectified as a success object.
When anyone throws around generalisations, I feel the need to say something. Lauren, non-white folks dont always get the short end of the stick. It is entirely based on your environment. Its _MINORITIES_ that always get the short end of the stick as they are an easy target for the majorities. White people in predominantly black environments will be discriminated against just like black people in white areas will.
Nope. I live in a neighborhood like that, and I don’t get discriminated against the way persons of color do in whiter neighborhoods.
I know lots of straight guys. They watch porn involving skinny women with huge implants, but in real life, their tastes are considerably more diverse, ranging from slender and flat-chested to very rubenesque. My one friend likes the Tammy Wynette head on The Rock’s body, or as we call them, Frankenstein Barbies. The ‘one size fits all’ beauty standard and big breast meme do not ring true for most men.
well, it’s understandable to have a weakness for those sporting taut, protruding, ripe egg masses with no sign of rival fertilization….especially with saucy chromatophore flickering…
Tina is slang for crystal methamphetamine. I always thought it was a sideways contraction, but according to this, it’s becasue it’s commonly sold in sixteenth-ounce quantities.
It starts early too – my five year old daughter just went to see Santa Claus at a local department store. She got told (by Santa) “only pretty girls can come in to Santa’s cave”. WTF?
Another WTF though – I think disemvowelment is a perfectly good idea, but some of the Boing Boing moderators are using it not as the final sanction against someone who can’t show civilised behaviour, but simply when something doesn’t take their fancy: Earlier in this thread the comment “calm your easily irritable sense of indignation”.
Antinous @74 The ‘one size fits all’ beauty standard and big breast meme do not ring true for most men.
Unfortunately, it’s not usually men who are trying to live up to that one-size-fits-all beauty standard. Somewhere along the line, girls and women got it in their heads that this is what men find attractive, regardless of whether that is actually true. It’s the women who find themselves unattractive if they don’t fit the ideal.
Hey Miss Hayden,
I’ve had relationships with attractive/unattractive,large breasted/small breasted women, but I do discriminate. Life is too short to spend with a stupid women, and women who would judge me on the size of my wallet are stupid. Also, women who would think I would want a woman like that are.
Then there is the case of the stay-at-home-dad (SAHD) me.
At this point in my life all my friends are women, which has been strange and wonderful, because other than customers, my entire working life was spent in the company of men. Maybe one of my friends would get this as a cute or funny joke, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
In my particular case, ALL the mother’s I know, all my friends, breastfeed. So breasts, which were once idealized, have taken on a different meaning. BTW, not only do they breastfeed, but they are all radical on demand nursing moms. They will discreetly whip ’em out anytime, anywhere their child needs nourishment. As a result, I can make a claim most women cannot make, I have seen all my friends breasts at one time or another.
My favorite story is sitting and talking in a chik-fil-a or as a friend says christ-fil-a, while the kids are playing. One of the kids runs up to nurse, so his mom pulls up her shirt and holds her breast out to him. Before long he finishes and runs off to play, leaving her sitting there absentmindedly holding her breast while we talk. After a couple of minutes I finally realize my friend is sitting in a chik-fil-a eating lunch and talking while holding her breast in her hand. With no more excitement than if I had asked her to pass the salt, I say, he’s gone, you can put it away now. We all laugh when we remember that day.
Only a few years ago I would have sat there staring, now breasts barely get noticed. But the strangest thing is how many non-nursing women have hangups when in the company of nursing moms. If you want to understand more about our societies fascination with the female breast, spend a few years in the company of on demand nursing moms, they’re truly wonderful people. I would say fearless, but for them it is just the way life is supposed to be.
As a little experiment, look around and count the number of moms with babies nursing in public. While it is far more common than it was thirty years ago, I’ll wager for most off you the number is zero. We see hundreds of babies, but rarely if ever do we see a women sitting watching her children play while she nurses her baby, much less her two or three year old.
Sometimes I find it hard to remember what my life was like before children and all these new friends. While I do miss the intellectual and physical challenge of my last job, building, installing, or servicing custom machinery, I have never had better friends. Unfortunately, not enough men can say they love their friends.
@72 posted by Teresa: Yes, push-ups have been accomplished; but, you missed my ironic satire again. Boobs notwithstanding, I feel any group/person/society obsessed with cosmetic surgery has their priorities mixed up.
Strange artifact…easy enough to come up with an equally offensive, similar artifact for boys. But what would it profit one?
We try so hard to be attractive at some time in our lives, but some of us really have not got a chance. Some do not have the inclination and some of us get wrong what is attractive to the oppo sex, as well. Equally often, well, “the boy/girl can’t help it”, so to speak, and they are condemned to a life of being noticed (admired) by the oppo sex.[ As an aside, if such attention is unwelcome, is it comic or tragic? ]
Anyway, I thought I’d take this oppo to note in an off-topic way that natural selection (fitness for environment) is not the only determinant of which strands of DNA will continue existing into the future. There is the equally powerful mechanism of sexual selection (fitness to breed as determined by the oppo sex). What goes into making up that determination/decision (ie “s/he’s the one I’ll marry”) is a study in itself – just untangling which desires are socially inculcated and which arise from the breast of the “love-struck” is difficult, almost impossible for social beings such as we are. After all it is the ‘observers’ gaze’ which is at play here – what attracts it, and why therefore? – and that will inevitably be colored by where and when the courtship is taking place.
It seems to me the second form of selection is not given enough weight, when people consider the origin of species. The second (that is, sexual selection) has less of necessity, more of caprice, more of “art”, more of fancy, it would seem. Judging from the behavior and anatomy of Birds of Paradise, anyway. Indeed sexual selection can become so outre that the outcome eventually becomes inimical to the individuals’ fitness for the environment….and extinction can then come at the slightest environmental change.
That is to say, the “tracks” of selection, natural and sexual, can work at cross-purposes, though not for long.
Of course, people are not birds….
Every society has their own version of body modification and adornment. When they can afford to do so, every civilisation plays dress up. This is not mixed up, this is human. Humans are mixed up and that ain’t always bad, just beware of those who say otherwise. To be human is to be mixed up and crazy, some of us just need more drugs than others.
i can think of some girls who would find this amusing if given as a gift. At least if I gave it since they know i think boob jobs are stupid and so do they.
But there’s all kinds of wrong to be found in this as well.
As with most things of a possibly offensive nature it’s about who gives and who gets.
And I’m far more worried about the magazine section of this site than the jar. Women’s magazines (and their junior versions) are by far the biggest reason for women’s body issues today. Don’t believe me? go to the nearest magazine rack and check what percentage of women’s magazines have the word “diet” on the cover. Bet’s it’s not less than 90%
what percentage of women’s magazines have the word “diet” on the cover
‘Women’s magazine’ is like ‘men’s prison’. It denotes the gender, but benefit is purely speculative.
It occurs to me that, living in Palm Springs, 60 – 70% of the women that I know have had boob jobs. Of course, some of them are due to breast cancer, but still.
I think I’ll buy this for my brother.
#80 is a wonderful comment; thanks for writing it. I’ll never shake the image of that mother absentmindedly holding her breast after her child has left the table.
You’re a lucky man to have so many literally nurturing friends.
I’m not sure anyone will read this comment since its so far down, but:
I think this piggy bank is actually some sort of unlicensed tribute to “Shin Chan”, the anime. If you’ve ever seen the show, roughly a quarter of the episodes reference the mom character’s boob job savings jar.
ok, please continue freaking out
I appreciate all the nicely reasoned posts in here.
I’d like to donate my $.02 to the tacky team. This reminds me of those “You Drive Me Nucking Futs” or “Big Package” t-shirts that make rounds in cheesy beach communities. While I think there’s plenty of dissertation-worthy intellectualization to dismiss this item, it’s sufficient to say it’s for classless Wal*Mart slugs and move along.
Calm your petty outrage.
Antinous at #89 writes:
> Calm your petty outrage.
Yeah, I’ll make it some chamomile tea or something. But overenthusiastic disemvoweling is still the spawn of the devil.
Or did you mean about the Santa’s cave stuff? I think I’ll keep the petty outrage turned up high for that one.
The only disemvowelments in this thread were two commenters being rude to Cory and one just being rude. I can’t figure out what you’re complaining about.
already pointed out but worth underlining cmon I though this was Boing Boing – hello Japanese anime reference?
Shin’s mother who is saving up for a boob job
For the record I like the breasts of the person I’m with.
are your spam filters so efficient you don’t get any viagra/cialis/ make her weep with the size of your man snake stuff?
for A User
Viagra/Cialis are completely different than “male enhancement” stuff. Penis enlargement is reprehensible bullshit, but it would be foolish to say that it is anywhere near as widespread as pressure for women to change their bodies. When I’m innocently waiting in the supermarket checkout line, every single magazine on the rack either tells me I should be losing weight, calls attention to the weight loss/gain of a (female) celebrity, or speculates about whether a (female) celebrity has had plastic surgery on some part of her body (usually her breasts). References to penis size anywhere but my email inbox? Zero.
Antinous at #93 writes:
> The only disemvowelments in this thread were two commenters being rude to Cory and one just being rude. I can’t figure out what you’re complaining about.
Ok. Well, standard disclaimers about it not being my website, and the owners can do what they want, blah blah blah… But…
I’m used to disemvoweling from Making Light, where it tends to be used as a last resort. People can get disagree pretty deeply with each other, and get pretty nasty about it without the vowels disappearing. Disemvowelment, when it happens, tends to be against the most vicious of trolling and the most obvious of drive by comment abusers. Generally if someone is willing to get into an argument about what they’re saying, they get to, as long as a minimum amount of politeness can be maintained. (And lest that seem to be painting Making Light as just too perfect, I sometimes think disemvowelment happens too easily as well.)
Here on BoingBoing, it feels like disemvowelment is applied much more readily (despite the common link of TNH between the two sites) – being deployed when moderators feel peeved or when they just plain find a posting disagreeable.
I think disemvowelment of anything but the most offensive comments is ultimately damaging to a site, as it nudges people towards self censorship and emphasises the power imbalance between the owners of the site and the commentors, making comments less of a conversation.
I know there are arguments in the other direction too – I particularly appreciate the bit TNH once said about how you must never tolerate the existence of two trolls on a forum, as they’ll egg each other on. I also see the sense in the idea of zero tolerance policing of comments stopping a forum from sliding into real ugliness as people provoke each other to go further and further.
Everyone who’s moderating has to decide where to draw a line, and there’s no magic way to do it. I strongly believe that pointless and mildly offensive comments along the lines of “that’s the most pointless thing you’ve ever posted” and so on should be allowed to live – even when they are a pain in the ass.
So there you go. I’d be interested in your response – and sorry for the topic drift.
Imagine receiving dozens of e-mails every day telling you how unsatisfactory you are. That’s what the Boingers would have to deal with if we didn’t do what we do.
I think if you look at who is writing those magazines you’ll find most of the editorial and writing staff aren’t men.
I’ve always wondered what it would be like if we were all like baseball players at our jobs. Every time you screwed up thousands of drunks, who loved you at coffee break, start chanting you suck, you suck, while throwing their empties into your cubicle. After you punch out, they follow you to your car to remind you of the stupid mistake you made that afternoon. Then when you get home, you dare not turn on the TV, unless you want to see instant replays of your error played over and over in slow motion, while the local reporter, who never closed a deal in his life, explains in excruciating detail your boneheaded play of the day, that cost your company thousands of dollars. Then every where you go with your family people shout, hey loser, get your head in the game next time.
If your job paid ten million bucks a year you could probably take a little ragging. All the way to the bank.
It would certainly take some of the sting out.
Buddy, just realized I forgot to post a response to your earlier comment. Thanks, spending so much time with these women and children is great, and something I could never have appreciated before doing it.
Are you implying that women can’t be misogynistic? Or that because some women are misogynistic, no women can complain about sexism?
no I’m getting you to look at your assumptions.
Women can’t be wrong as they are the wronged?
Maybe in the affirmative action eighties that argument stood up, but now?
It’s women who write for womens magazines, it’s female editors along with female focus groups who choose what you (plural) are likely interested enough in to buy their magazine over a rival’s.
I’m not debating that the journos, editors and focus groups are not in control of the industry, but then the mainstream media doesn’t reflect my views and interests as a man either, and I’m equally powerless to change it, except by not encouraging them with my money.
So what I’m really saying is I think a lot of the “Men come from Mars and Women come from Venus” stuff is in itself a smoke screen to keep everybody divided and arguing amongst themselves so they can’t get focused on what the real issues are war, famine, corporate patents, economic slavery, climate change and out of control greedy bankers to name but a few.
Dude, what assumptions are you getting me to question? I’m well aware that women write women’s magazines. I imagine it’s mostly men sending out your “male enhancement” spam, too.
I didn’t say anywhere that women couldn’t be wrong because they are wronged. In fact, I said the exact opposite: that women can be misogynistic.
If you’re trying to get me to question the “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” bullshit, I assure you I have nothing but contempt for it, and I didn’t imply it in my comments.
So…what’s your point, besides being condescending about “my assumptions”?
Lauren O vs. A User: Lauren O is hereby declared the victor. A User is declared to have gotten off a good line: “For the record, I like the breasts of the person I’m with.”
Anonymous @87, yes, of course we read your comment. It was very helpful. Thank you for posting it.
“Make her weep with the size of your man snake?” Crikey. And there I’d thought “massive throbbing waga” was over the top.
Teapot7 @96: That’s an interesting set of questions. I’m going to copy your post and several others to the moderation thread, and address them there.
Foetusnail @99, that’s a very striking observation, and by “striking” I mean “nightmarish.”
Dude, what assumptions are you getting me to question?
Just one assumption. Because it doesn’t happen to or affect you it is therefor irrelevant.
I’m well aware that women write women’s magazines. I imagine it’s mostly men sending out your “male enhancement” spam, too.
So whatever hysteria they cause is inflicted on their own gender.
Viagra/Cialis are completely different than “male enhancement” stuff. Penis enlargement is reprehensible bullshit, but it would be foolish to say that it is anywhere near as widespread as pressure for women to change their bodies.
Without underlining it too, much the meds, and particularly the meds, along with all the other tawdry paraphernalia sell by playing on male insecurities, regardless of whether they work or not. And you can’t see a common ground in that? As a side note Pfizer had to invent the ‘ED’ medical condition to get men to actually ask for Viagra from doctors as the company wasn’t selling as much as it had anticipated when it was first launched. Feeling too ashamed to broach a health topic with your doctor, remind you of any other life experiences you might have heard of?
I’m buying one of these for my friend Steph :] Grad gift= boob job :] just 2 more years haha
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