Gweek 061: Trust Me, I'm Lying


33 Responses to “Gweek 061: Trust Me, I'm Lying”

  1. Sounds like an interesting Gweek!  *Downloading*

    Edit: Oh, it isn’t on iTunes yet?

  2. Jane Doe says:

    Meh, the excerpt makes the book sound like one long, whinging ode to Holiday’s apparent butthurt over a Jezebel writer.  No thanks.

  3. Robert says:

    I’m not defending the practice of media manipulators, but let’s face it, they’re always going to be out there, just as trolls are, only much more serious because they seem so credible. So how do you deal with someone who flat-out lies or insinuates in order to ruin your reputation?

    Here are some ideas off the top of my head:

    1. Stop waiting for lawyers to approve messages. Does your fear of getting fired by your company outweigh the certainty that a bad message about your company gets out there? If so, then frankly, it’s not your problem.

    2. You (or your company) might be able to sue for libel, or otherwise sic lawyers on them, but that only further enriches the lawyers and does damage to you or your company anyway, perhaps even more than the original post, right? So maybe you could co-opt your own media manipulators to counter the story. Juice it up a bit to make it as interesting and controversial as the original. Put a big notice on your website, and call them out by name: “Tibbledy Piddlesey’s Comments about Exploding Garbage Cans are Laughable (click to read more)” Respond fast, and respond prominently. The game is to discredit the manipulator as much as they discredited you, because either you can stay silent, or wait and lose the initiative, or take the initiative.

    3. ???

    4. Profit!

    5. What other ideas can you think of?

  4. PathosBill says:

    Whatever happened to the notion that Mean People Suck?

    • cfuse says:

      America’s psychopathic obsession with making a buck over all else is incompatible with that ideal. Horrible people are financially rewarded for their ruthlessness and lack of ethics, and financial worth has become just plain old worth. For all the bleating about occupy Wallstreet, every ordinary American still wants to be rich above all else.

      • PathosBill says:

         no doubt. capitalism is orthogonal to human worth. it’s no surprise that a system that does not recognize the value of people (or the environment or happiness) does little to foster them (except as a means of making more money). It seems like that should have been obvious since its inception, and I don’t think people today are any greedier than there forefathers (um, slaves?). Maybe the social contract expired?

  5. chris jimson says:

    “outrage world”

    Well, this is how Fox News and talk radio operate too, the manufactured “War On Christmas” angers up the blood and brings in viewers and ad revenue, but it’s based on people trying to be polite by saying the non-sectarian “happy holidays” to strangers who’s faith is an unknown.  In other words they took something harmless (in fact, people trying to do no harm) and turned it into “war.”

  6. 4chr says:

    Wow Jane Doe … it is incredible how quickly you found justification sufficient for completely dismissing everything the author wrote.

    • Jane Doe says:

       Actually, reading the excerpt took a whole 10 minutes out of my day that I won’t get back.  I wasn’t inclined to similarly waste everyone else’s time with a long screed about how unappealing I found this piece of self-aggrandizing, overly obvious marketing. 

      • social_maladroit says:

        Here’s the problem. For the most part, I respect Salon, and I expect them to follow standard journalistic practices. Now I’m being told that they’ve hired a former Gawker Media blogger with a documented history of posting what is essentially dramatic fiction, rather than journalism, for the purpose of getting page hits.

        Not only does that lower the credibility of what Irin Carmon writes; it lowers the overall credibility of Salon, since they decided to hire her and give her an outlet.

        So it’s more than just an issue of “butthurt,” as you so flippantly describe it.

      • Totally agree, Jane – wish I’d read your comment instead of the excerpt!

      • Toby Graves says:

         I bought the book.  It’s totally insincere and has the taste of  “I wanna be on Oprah” embedded within it.

      • cdh1971 says:

        I was going to express my disagreement with your comment with what I fancy to be a subtle, catty and dissy comment. 

        Then I looked at your Twitter login profile, read a page or so of your comments and agreed with most if not all comments I saw. Plus your self-description sounds like  more than a few of my friends. 

        Anyway,  I didn’t find the excerpt nearly as bad as you did — I found it interesting and it describes a pervasive problem with not only blogs but media in general. 

        The excerpt did not especially read as butthurt. Irin Carmon should be more responsible and her employers are arses for not holding her accountable.

      • Mark_Frauenfelder says:

        I find it odd  that you thought it was more important to whinge about Ryan’s tone than comment on the actual subject of the excerpt — the Jezebel writer’s journalistic ethics.

        • Jane Doe says:

          He’s not saying anything particularly new or interesting or that hasn’t been covered by dozens of others, so what is there to comment on aside from Holiday’s obvious attempt to capitalize on a system that he claims ownership to?

          And if her ethics are the _actual_ subject of the excerpt, I will eat my hat. The entire excerpt is an SEO arrow aimed right at getting her back for his butthurt by making his accusations show up on any search of her name. I’m sure he’s thanking you for printing it.

          • Mark_Frauenfelder says:

            It’s new to me. Could you cite some other of the “dozens” of examples of this kind of blog media criticism that you’ve read. I’m interested!

        • Jane Doe says:

          This is actually a reply to your comment below, because we hit the end of the threading.

          Really?  You’ve never heard anyone do this kind of media criticism before?  I suggest you google “yellow journalism” and start there.  

  7. SumAnon says:

    Is there really no recourse for slander like the dross Jezebel slings around? Especially if other news corpse pick up the story, journalist need to be at least partially responsible for what they write. Or has that gone away now too? 

  8. Reverend Loki says:

    Personally, I thought the Daily Show’s response should have been, well, more childish.  It’s a fake news comedy show, known for mocking, amongst other things, the news media and it’s lack of journalistic principles.  And then a member of the “new media” shows a lack of journalistic principles and attacks them… hell, it’s like they were setting themselves up as a target.  Screw the Streisand effect, run on air bits mocking Jezebel and this blogger in particular.  Maybe they get a few more pageviews, but I guarantee The Daily Show would earn a lot more off their advertising than Gawker would have from covering these non-events.  Hell, make that part of the response – compare the small stack of ones (not unlike a stripper might earn, hmm?) to the huge pile of gold bars they just made while covering each other. 

  9. Teller says:

    Part of the issue, to me, is the laziness of nsps and cable news in scanning blogs for news items and assuming due diligence has been performed. It’s easy for an Anderson Cooper to say “There’s a controversy on the web about blah blah blah…” and suddenly, it gains traction and truthiness. 

  10. Robert Holmen says:

    Did Mark Twain say “A good lie can be in the next county before the truth gets its boots on”?

    I think he said that.  I read it on the internet once.

    Every time there’s been a new advance in communication… telegraph, telephone, radio, television, communication satellites, internet… people have rhapsodized about how much closer this brings us all together and how all our mutual understanding will be furthered.

    And then it turns out to be just another way for people to be jack asses to each other.

  11. cdh1971 says:

    “Oh, I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!”

  12. yvgeny says:

    It’s an interesting topic but I’m disturbed to see Boing Boing offer a platform for a hit piece against another blogger.

    • chris jimson says:

      “Hit piece against another blogger” implies that the points he makes are unfounded or exaggerated.  Can you provide evidence of such?  I am genuinely interested because he seems to back up his claims adequately. 

      • yvgeny says:

        I don’t think I’m disputing the facts of the events. It’s the selective interpretation of those events. I was just uncomfortable that one blogger was singled out (the entire excerpt and the title is about her) for some reason. It seemed like payback more than a simple illustration of the points he’s making. He obviously has a personal stake in it, as evidenced by his account of the events. He’s had more than one encounter with her Of all the bloggers out there, I’m not sure why Irin Carmon deserves to be the poster child of media manipulation. I’ve read other things by her and this didn’t seem characteristic of her work. It comes off as an attack, intended or not. I don’t argue his right to do that. I just never thought Boing Boing would be a place that would devote so much time and space to something so shrill and bordering on ad hominem. Equally problematic is his singling out of the “feminist blogosphere.” Speaking of “outrage world,” even my own initial reaction after reading this was to be angry that Irin Carmon would stoop to such levels. Then I actually read the post and remembered her other work. Perhaps she’s had her missteps and indulged in the hyperbole that a great number of bloggers (particularly political ones) do but this excerpt is just as much an exaggeration as anything she’s accused of doing (and not all that different from criticism typically leveled against mainstream journalists). Again, something I usually don’t see on Boing Boing. But I’ll just chalk it up to diversity of thought and the free market of ideas.

  13. jessed says:

    I’m not surprised to read any of this. Jezebel is obviously insanely sensationalized, but it’s sad to see how deluded she seems about it. At least this guy can own up to and articulate what he’s doing

  14. lumpygravy2 says:

     The military industrial complex has funded a generation of professional lairs, hacks who will spew anything they think will please the fat cats.

    The whole get paid per page view, regardless of the veracity of the content, is the moral bottom line here.

    The well is poisoned.  Have a nice day.

    • BarBarSeven says:

      The military industrial complex has funded a generation of professional lairs, hacks who will spew anything they think will please the fat cats.

      Chief, did you even listen to the interview. This kind of B.S. journalism has been happening since the Spanish-American war. The only difference nowadays is the world of blogging has accelerated this kind of “tool man”-ship, but the same basic patterns still exist.

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