Brutal police violence at Berlin "Freedom not Fear" demonstration

Takuan

anyone know?: How many police have been killed in Germany lately?

AirPillo

How well are riot police around the world trained to keep their cool and not overreact or encroach on peaceful bystanders/protesters? It sure seems like a multitude of countries have had problems with more than just a small minority of police at protests having a bit of a hair trigger for violence.

Are there specialized drills to help people practice experiencing that kind of stress, under those kinds of potentially disorienting circumstances, without getting emotional? Should there be?

Antinous / Moderator

Riot police in San Francisco generally do the minimum. SF City government figured out a long time ago that a few broken windows is a better outcome than multiple injuries and lawsuits.

Takuan

state violence isn’t about justice, it’s about status quo.

Milarepa

WTH? So many comments??? Thanks guys :)
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4682455,00.html?maca=de-rss-de-all-1119-rdf

Anonymous

Aren’t these police controlled to the state government of Berlin? The Berlin government is typically left-wing, although I haven’t been there for a long time. In any case, aren’t these police under local government control?

zikzak

@peterbruells: I agree. In order to ensure their own safety, police should assume that all civilians are potentially deadly threats and be permitted to use the appropriate force. To that end, those civvies are lucky they weren’t all gunned down Tienanmen Square-style, as would have been the appropriate procedure. After all, no policeman should risk getting hurt when executing a legal arrest.

SamSam

That pig who pulled the guy back had a disgusting grin on his face. He knew he was really going to enjoy punching that guy in the face.

Is it bad to hope that, when his name is released, some guys will intercept him in a dark alley and make him realize that he’s not so big and tough when he’s not surrounded by fellow armored skinheads?

Anonymous

@89 Samsam

Sadly, beating up someone who beat someone else hardly ever works. The intent may be to put them in the shoes of their victims, but that presumes a certain level of empathy and decency many people lack.

It’s all just bullying, taken to the next level. When a bully has an unhappy life, the bully feels helpless and humiliated. So to feel more in control, the bully then goes and beats up someone smaller than them. It’s a rush of power, of self determination, and of vindication. Now, instead of them being under someone else’s thumb, the tables are turned.

If you beat a police officer who beats someone else, he’s not just going to realize the error of his ways. He’s going to get angry. He’s going to want revenge. You stole his power and thunder. He’s gonna consider abusing his powers. He might just plant drugs in your car, stage an anonymous tip, and lock you away. And that’s just the clean and easy way to do it.

There’s something to be said about making people realize just how horrible their behavior is by turning it upon them, but sadly most people are too willing to be hypocritical for that work.

~D. Walker

Anonymous

peterbruells

I agree with you. People who knock the US all the time need to travel more. They might be surprised how glad they are to get home.

failix

@Antinous,

The Versammlungsgesetz was recently (2008?) updated. It is now illegal to wear any kind of protective equipment (like helmets) which they call (literal translation) “protective weapons”, or “passive weapons”.
Yup that’s newspeak… It is also illegal to cover your face in order to remain anonymous, which is really bad for not so aggressive and generally peaceful protesters at for example antifascist rallies. Nazis like to spot antifascist activists, corner them after the demonstration when they are alone, and beat them up…

Takuan

never bathe.

LX

For the first time of my life, I am deeply ashamed for my country (germany). I don’t blame myself for the nazi dictatorship, since this was long before my time – yet, the people who were elected into their positions allowing for such mindless brutality by those who should protect us did so with my unspoken consent. At least, I did not say “no” – or not loud enough.

Greetings, LX

hail_diskordia

Goes to show that, contrary to popular belief, the problems are *everywhere*. Doesn’t matter whether you live in a “progressive and enlightened” part of the world or not, fear and might are still handy tools to the elite.
This is the kind of thing I refer to when I’m told that I live in a country of hate and that everybody else is deep in the heart of the Age of Aquarius. Well, things like this and the systemic European hatred for the Roma, but I digress.

It’s tough all over. My sympathies are with those who experienced this.

sopekmir

Almost 20 hours has passed and I do not see any news about the event in mainstream media.
What is more I do not see the news of the event website. Concerted media hypocrisy or what ?

Milarepa

Ach du scheisse.
This is really not fun. I have some friends who are with the police. This is not really considered normal. What in heaven made this situation escalate? I guess some people just can’t handle the power of a uniform. Weird and shameful. Let’s hope those pricks will be brought to justice.

sopekmir

sorry, there is the note on the event site:

http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/content/view/334/1/lang,de/

Anonymous

@61 (Quote):
“It is however a very good idea to wear solid shoes or boots, jeans, a heavy long-sleeved shirt and a bike helmet to any demonstration. You can get fancier, but you should at least wear something that provides minimal protection if you get knocked down or pushed into a wall.”
This could actually be a *very bad* idea when going to a demonstration in Germany, since you can be considered “armed” just for wearing protective equipment. I know of people being arrested for just wearing their (leather) motocycle clothing to a demonstration.
Solid shoes and robust clothes are still a good idea, but the helmet could get you in trouble.

Antinous / Moderator

If wearing a bike helmet to a demonstration gets you in trouble, you have serious problems. Personally, I’ll take my chances on getting hit while wearing some protection. I haven’t found that submission to authority, at least at that level, works. The more you look like prey, the more predatory they get.

Anonymous

A demonstration is not totally peaceful if the police are attacking the protesters. As progressive and enlightened as Germany may be in many ways, it’s still a police state perpetuating the US War on Terror ideals.

matt4077

There’s mainstream coverage at, for example, http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/0,1518,648686,00.html

The story just broke this morning, and they have less staff on sundays, so it’s just taking some time.

There’s also a press release by the police. According to that, the guy with the bicycle was repeatedly ordered to leave the area and arrested when he failed to comply. The video doesn’t really agree with those statements, though.

They’ve also started an investigation against the policemen, explicitly citing the youtube video as the reason. It’s supposed to be a high priority, but we’ll see.

Press release: http://www.berlin.de/polizei/presse-fahndung/archiv/138631/index.html

sopekmir

If anyone noticed anything about the act on some mainstream media – we will appreciate to post it here …

Phrosty

Dango wango. That was uncalled for. What on earth could that guy with the bicycle have POSSIBLY done to warrant such abuse? I like to think he was a convicted rapist on the run, disguised as a hippie cyclist, and they caught him. If only.

consideredopinion

It’s worth observing the relative discipline in this whole event. The police attack was isolated, and that unit quickly withdrew to its van. The filming police unit were largely left undisturbed, and the crowd rapidly organized to observe and vocalize their protest non-violently.

It suggests to me that either the attacking police officer received interdiction approval, or upon his breach of discipline, was quickly ordered back to the van.

It’s notable that there was little effort by adjacent police units to maintain a perimeter.

Quite unlike either the recent *violent* Korean factory protests in August: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4SFuT9k2E

or the British approach to non-violent protest in April: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t244-zEENSs&feature=related

—

Any search on the LAPD will reveal the US custom of dealing with any breached discipline with overwhelming numbers, body checking or batons, and sometime much much worse.

sopekmir

@#6 – Matt – thx, I looked at english language media first…

fALk

The Chaos Computer Club is asking eyewitnesses to mail them their account:

mail@ccc.de

also the news breaking is that the Landeskriminalamt (Buro of Criminal Investigation?) has taken up an investigation against two policeman.

Rumors has it also that they are investigating the guy with the bleeding nose in the end that he “tried to free a prisoner”.

sopekmir

German speaking friends – is the language of

http://www.berlin.de/polizei/presse-fahndung/archiv/138631/index.html

truthful ?

When I google-translated it to EN, I found it highly biased. See “the intro”:

“Among the participants there were also some 700 members of the so-called “anti-capitalist bloc. They tried in the field of StresemannstraÃŸe depart from the declared distance, which prevented police officers.”

LX

@#9: it is said that the guy with the bike asked a policeman to show his ID after he manhandled an yet unknown woman with unneccessary brutality.

Greetings, LX

LX

@#11: This translation is very funny. Yet another description of the event agrees that there were some members of a left-wing organisation driving a car with speakers on top – but they were far less than 700 individuals.

Once the police tried to stop this car, its drivers started calling the cops names (through the speakers). Innocent bystanders were hurt when the police finally stopped the car. One of them seems to be the woman whose treatment was the reason for the man with the bike to ask the policeman for his ID. The rest is history.

Since peace-breakers usually don’t wear a uniform, they are terribly hard to spot, I’ll grant the police that, yet the amount of brutality used there was totally exaggerated.

Greetings, LX

zikzak

I guess it’s nice that people care enough to offer their advice on what “those protesters” ought to do, but that’s kind of missing the point. Those protesters should be you and I – they are part of an international struggle for free societies, and we’re all benefiting from that struggle.

We don’t need your ass sitting on the sidelines kibitzing, we need you out here with us. If you have fresh ideas, that’s fantastic. But the ideas alone are worthless unless you get out and start acting on them. Join us in the streets, stand up to illegitimate authority. You’ll be surprised at what you learn, and just maybe you’ll be profoundly inspired.

Anonymous

I still find it amazing that people expect police officers to never have to face danger.

Who joins a police force expecting to be utterly safe at all times? It’s practically part of the definition of the term that a police officer is a keeper of the peace, a protector of the innocent, and the first into danger.

More and more police insist that their actions and their violence are justified measures intended to keep police officers safe, but this is backwards. A police officer is supposed to step into harms way in order to protect others, not harm and harass others to keep themselves safe.

~D. Walker

failix

Nah, hippies have tried this for years now… doesn’t work…

Takuan

and how many hippies have been speared in the bath-tub?

Anonymous

yikes, not sure the police ever need to be punching someone in the face.

fALk

The “black block” in question was standing right in front of me about 5 minutes before the video was shot – the police was clearly very provocative with them – I wish I had videotaped it would make it so clear that this was deliberate escalation. The group had maybe 20-50 members and were quite loud but there were no bottles or stones thrown or any violence going out from them whatsoever. They also didnÂ´t attack the police – they acutally dispersed when it was clear the police would not let up on them (sticking a video camera in their face (5cm in front and then following them)). That the part where I am eyewitness – then the vw bus of the black block was coming by and the police rushed over for no apparent reason and then there is some missing footage (I saw at least 3 camera teams taping it but none have showed up so far) with what happened there (it was 30 meters away and a mob formed around so I couldnÂ´t see clearly either). Then another two-three minutes later the video above must have been shot. I saw the police dragging a guy on his knees past me – I have no recollection if its the guy in the video (they where quite fast moving). The guy in the video and all involved in the incident above are clearly not from the black block – these are easely identified by wearing only black hoodies & mostly sunglasses and they are not asking officers for their number with pen and paper.

Anonymous

In the meantime the police released a statement:

“The procedure involved in the arrest of officials of a Einsatzhundertschaft which is also evident in a video sequence, distributed over the Internet, has led the police to initiate criminal proceedings for assault in office. The investigation is guided by the relevant specialist department at the State Crime as a priority.”
http://www.berlin.de/polizei/presse-fahndung/archiv/138631/index.html

jokel

(Just to make it perfectly clear: The beating by the police was completely out of line. I just want to clear a few circumstances up)

@#35:
> And yet, in the video it’s clear he’s walking away and they have to chase him down in order to beat him.

It’s not apparent in the circulated video, but that’s simply not true. Here’s a video of the prelude to the situation from a separate angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=JNSW8KaAZ-U

Police is clearing people from the area and points them in a certain direction. Blue shirt guy stands still, one police officer shunts his bike, to which blue shirt guy responds by shouting “So… KÃ¶rperverletzung”. It’s worth pointing out that his inflection and choice of words sound distinctly like he was fishing for something like this. He is then told to move several times (see http://www.trinkerheim.com/?p=492 for a longer, lower quality version of the video above – ignore the captions). When he finally does move, he moves in EXACTLY the opposite direction he was told to move, so he gets chased down.

The second video linked shows someone who looks like him pulling a similar stunt (standing in front of police with his bike, waiting to be touched, then screaming bloody murder). No idea if that really is him, though.

In short: up until the point where they beat him, there was nothing wrong with the situation.

Anonymous

There have to be personal IDs on the uniforms, really no way. There goes democracy.

Anonymous

Statement from the victims lawer: (in German)
http://berlin.ccc.de/~andy/tmp/PE-EISENBERG_14-09-09.pdf

Anonymous

Subbed version of the video for international viewers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF9ojnR_dfI

Anonymous

Translation of the relevant part of the German press release of the Berlin Police department:

“In connection with the review of car speakers it cames from several participants to massive disturbances of the police action. Despite repeated requests to leave the place, especially a 37-year-old men disturbed again. The officials finally banished him from the place. After even this had been repeatedly expressed, and the man made no move to comply with, the police arrested him. Then, a stranger intervened in the situation and tried to free the detainees, which prevented the official means of simple physical assault. The stranger then walked away from the crime scene. The 37-year-old suffered facial injuries when he was arrested and was undergoing treatment in a hospital.”

Sorry for my bad English..

zikzak

That reminds me: At the 1999 WTO summit in Seattle, the police used lots of tear gas to disperse demonstrations.

During the demonstrations, a city-wide state of emergency was declared: possession of gas-masks was specifically banned.

Anonymous

What happened there is just the same stuff that always happens, when members of the riot squat go bonkers. berlin police has a certain group of special “beating-crews” that are well known for their brutality. when you see cops with the numbers 21.., 22.., 23.., 24… on their back, you can be sure it’s the beating-crew rolling in. they are known as “twentiers” or “zwanziger” in german… nothing new, that those guys snap and strike people. they are specialized in “dealing” with antifascist, black bloc, anarchist demonstrations, where they have always been the ones hitting people. the guys with the 1… numbers on the back are just the normal riot squat, the 2…ers are the beating-crew. good to see someone finally got one those punks on tape doing what they always do.

Anonymous

video with subtitles here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF9ojnR_dfI

dragonfrog

A good article at http://www.taz.de/1/politik/schwerpunkt-ueberwachung/artikel/1/kein-vertrauen-in-die-herrschende-politik/

Also http://www.ksta.de/html/artikel/1252696055663.shtml

I could only wish that demonstrations were covered with this kind of intelligent and thoughtful journalism in Canada – they actually list speakers at the demonstration and summarize their speeches, and give a background on the laws that they were protesting.

Also, German newspapers are apparently unafraid to use the term “police brutality” when the available evidence indicates that there was in fact police brutality.

Takuan

there comes a point when the sheep shoot back.

webmonkees

Remember that old prison guard/prisoner psychological experiment gone wrong?

Do a turnabout..

Maybe borderline abusive folks in uniform need a rotating administrative ‘emasculavacation’, where they lose all authority and have to be regular citizens one month out of the year..

Doing 9-5 paperwork, unable to use the buddy system to get out of tickets, and if they beat somebody up, they get charged with assault just like any normal citizen would.

Maybe a few more law-abiding law-enforcers would result from such an experiment.

DemiGuru

Notice that the police was taping the incident as well.

Takuan

light on things killed by the light is a wonderful thing.

Hal

so “schweinhund” is still a commonly used term of abuse in DE? from that video the officer with 2112 on his back appears to be the worst offender.

failix

*facepalm*
Quiproquo…Sorry I figured “never bathe” was a humorous response to my post above… you know… “never bathe to let layers of dirt hide your face in order to remain anonymous”… I know it doesn’t make sense…

Anonymous

It is important to make all police officers in uniform put large identification numbers on their uniforms so that there is no need to self identify as someone who wants a badge number to make a compliant. If you could see the number of each of these officers in the video from a distance the good officers would be far less likely to cover for the bad officers.

I think that this raises to the level of a human right. If the power of a state is to be used against individuals the state must clearly and uniquely identify those involved.

Also it would be important to identify the officers making the videos.

I was involved in a similar act and didn’t see the police video until a police complaint board. That video also supported the incorrect acts of the officers.

Anonymous

As a German I feel deeply ashamed that such disturbing pictures go around the world. This police violence is absolutely inacceptable and must be prosecuted.

Anonymous

A Sad Day for Democracy and Human Rights in Germany!

Takuan

quip pro quo?

peterbruells

@hal Unfortunately, the 2212 is just the number of the unit – German police officers do not display visible ids.

But can you give me the second where you hear “Schweinehund”? I didn’t hear it.

But yes, it’s still a common derogative term, sometimes even used admiringly. However, it’s not really special to German ears – that’s mostly an obsesison of Englisch-speaking people.

Joe MommaSan

Here in Kansas City, cops in the nearby suburb of Raymore are under fire for taking a 19-year-old declawed housecat into an open field and “putting it down” by shooting it twice in the head.

Isn’t abusing or killing animals a behavioral trait common to sociopaths?

And isn’t it funny they can abuse us with impunity, but will get in trouble if they abuse an animal?

Anonymous

About the ‘official police statement’ under

http://www.berlin.de/polizei/presse-fahndung/archiv/138631/index.html

It’s strongly biased, but shows the current way of PR used against any civil rights, animal right or remote ‘lefty’ protest.
Since organizers of demonstrations can’t stop any radicals using the demonstration for their ‘work out’, it’s common practice, to put the focus of coverage and even mainstream media coverage there.
They ‘pan’ away from the subject and just show the escalation of some idiots.

The demonstration in Berlin was organized by a conglometare of political parties, unions, NPOs and such, so clearly on a wide basis of people.

None the less the public perception (through mainstream-media) is, that some whaccos and nerds whined about some crazy internet stuff and the evil black bloc was there and it went criminal and brutal…

It just misses some orwellian:
“For your safety, your gouvernment says: AVOID ALL PROTEST!”

Fun part: At the G8 summit in Heiligendamm there haven been grade A evidence, that some black-bloc members are undercover policemen.
Best story with a nearly a hundred wittnesses:
Peacfull demonstration track, chanting songs, with some police troops across the road, just guarding. Suddenly some ‘pseudo-black-bloc’comes on starts throwing stones and pushes others to join, but everybody refuses and even want him to stop and put away his disguise. As he doesn’t they want to stop him forcefully, unmask him and somebody recognizes him. He wingles away and… TADAAAA just walks up to the police cordon, which by magic parts and lets hin sneak through…

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,487262,00.html

Sadly just to few english media

Michael StrÃ¶ck

Please note that the police press-release states that they have officially filed legal charges against some of the policemen – it seems this is being handled correctly.

Adam Stanhope

If the TECHNO VIKING had been there, none of this would have happened.

sf

I just see a belligerent protester being told to move along by the police and him ignoring those requests. When the police finally decide it is in the best interest of the situation to remove the trouble maker they carry out a snatch arrest with the force necessary to overcome the resistance they met.

dragonfrog

The funny thing in this, to me, is that the cops can’t even come up with an explanation that makes sense, after having seen the video.

“The officials finally banished him from the place. After even this had been repeatedly expressed, and the man made no move to comply with, the police arrested him.”

And yet, in the video it’s clear he’s walking away and they have to chase him down in order to beat him.

Where I come from, the cops would come up with an explanation, then a video would come out proving they’re lying, then they’d make another story that could possibly match what that video shows, then another video would come out proving that story was a lie as well, then they’d come up with another story, until the videos stop coming out, and then their last lie becomes the official version. Here they seem to have gotten it backward – first the video came out, then they came out with a story that’s already demonstrably a lie.

Maybe it’s because it’s a weekend, I don’t know. Or maybe they just do things differently in Germany…

peterbruells

@31 Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read.

I really had to lol when in read “Before everyone starts criticzing the police in this incident, first check their policies and procedures.” Boy, some people sure love procedures….. saves on thinking I guess.

failix

Quiproquo != Quid pro quo

Quiproquo is French for quid pro quod which is latin for “whom for what” (or something like that).

It’s used to designate a situation where two people talk about two different things, both thinking they are talking about the same thing.

In short, it’s a misunderstanding. Sorry if I confused you, I thought it was one of those french expressions frequently employed in english… like “dÃ©jÃ vu”. And I was too lazy to look it up. :)

peterbruells

@34 While I find the whole thing very fishy myself, the person did quite obviously not walk in the direction the officer pointed too. From their POV he might very well be in violation of following a legitimate police order.

And yes, they do things differently in Germany. You’ll notice that no one got tasered.

Rindan

WTF is wrong with you people? We clearly were not watching the same video. I saw some violent long haired hippie, probably already driven into an insane and violent trance from MARIJUANA inhalation brandishing a DEADLY WEAPON. He could have KILLED someone with that bike and was clearly on the verge of a violent and psychotic fit.

Thankfully, there were a few dozen police officers there to take this insane and violent weapon wielding criminal down.

Powell

Reminds me a little of the riots at the beginning of the the Baader Meinhof Complex that I watched last night. Police suck no matter where you are it seems.

MyopicTailor111

In The UK, the police is trying to use the anti-terrorist laws to ban photographers from taking pictures of police officers. There are several cases of people (and tourists) that have been questioned and sometimes arrested for taking pictures of police officers in normal street situations. Though no one has ever been convicted. Leading UK politicians have criticized the practice but the police force just ignore it and continue. With such ban in place it would be even easier for the police to get away with abuse. The neo totalitarian tendencies in our society are getting more and more creepy.

What to do about it: If you travel to the UK, try to take as many pictures as possible of police officers. If you are arrested, know your rights and file a formal complaint. With enough civil disobedience the government will have to retreat.

More details at: http://photographernotaterrorist.org/

PS: A comment about police brutality. Even though most of the blame falls on the police, I strongly believe that peaceful protesters and organizations have a responsibility to distance themselves from the hooligans who deliberately want to attack the police, smash store windows and put cars on fire. (If I know my history correctly, a century ago protesting socialists used their own security guards during protest marches to prevent infiltrating communists hidden in the mass of protesting people from throwing stones at the police because the communists wanted to provoke attacks from the police.) IMO, a citizen’s arrest is the appropriate measure.

Takuan

so it wasn’t a quip?

Adam Stanhope

I saw a documentary once, perhaps 10 years ago, about some sort of protest/demonstration in Berlin.

I have forgotten what the demonstration was for, but it was something that was general interest and, if I remember correctly, not terribly controversial.

People of all types were converging on a certain part of the city to participate.

The documentary followed a group of young, far-right neo-nazi skinhead types who were coming in to participate from an outer-fringe of the city. The cameras followed them on tramss(?) or at least busses. They were breaking the windows and seats of the vehicles they were in… They were working themselves up into a frenzy for the confrontation ahead.

As they arrived, perhaps the final mile of the journey of their trams or busses passed scores of police riot vehicles that lined the street. The cops were there anticipating the skinheads arrival, and the skinheads were ecstatic that they were going to be able to fight against the cops.

Almost from the moment they poured off the trams/busses, violence began – lots of rock throwing, window breaking, vehicle burning, etc.

Anyway, the impression I carried with me from that documentary was that this sort of thing was par for the course in Berlin. Admittedly, that impression was based on this single documentary.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Antinous / Moderator

Anyone have any thoughts?

Yeah. Peaceful demonstrators make for boring documentaries. Documentaries are often propaganda or are made to give a young director some credibility to move into commercial film. I don’t know why we give them any credence.

Adam Stanhope

“Schweinhund” appears at appx. 54 seconds.

I noticed it because I have just recently seen the Baader Meinhof Complex movie and the film was peppered with “Schwein” throughout.

Great movie, btw.

Anonymous

ItÂ´s very simple. Lets call it: No freedom, but fear.
This one ist from Italy 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V8zXgs8Gt4

Takuan

from the Berlin Police website:
http://www.berlin.de/polizei/english.html#public

Anonymous

another report from Germany:

http://www.aenderhaken.de/freedom-not-fear-demonstration-police-violence-in-berlin-germany/

Takuan

give a “hint”
https://www.berlin.de/polizei/internetwache/indexe.php

Takuan

write to the governing mayor
http://www.berlin.de/rbmskzl/kontakt/

peterbruells

@41 Thanks. Though I can’t make out who yelled it. My gut feeling says “civilian”, though. A matter of the hysterical undertone and how the voice carries.

Takuan

relevant text from #44:
NB:
“freedom not fear demonstration â€“ police violence in Berlin /Germany

There was a brutal act of violence by police against a peaceful demonstrant at a huge Pirate Party demonstration in Berlin yesterday.

The Pirate Party and other political groups were demonstrating against censorship and control by the current conservative government under Chancellor Angela Merkel.
Her state secretaries Wolfgang SchÃ¤uble and Ursula von der Leyen are trying to use terrorism as a reason to get control over telecommunication and internet in Germany, filtering our communication data.

As many people oppose this control, the pirate party has good chances to be elected to parliament on September 27th, when federal elections in Germany are coming up. The conservative parties and government have started to get nervous.

But see and judge youself what happened yesterday at the Berlin demonstration and whether or not it is worth trying to achieve political change over here in Germany.”

mdh

a couple dozen police given free rein for an afternoon can radicalize hundreds for a generation.

Anonymous

There is now a statement of the laywer of the victim in the web, that the police is lying: http://berlin.ccc.de/~andy/tmp/PE-EISENBERG_14-09-09.pdf

EH

If a protest is not violent, it has a chance of being effective. If a peaceful protest does not turn violent, the authorities will do what they can to change that.

levendus

Tht “pcfl” prtstr ws bng jck ss nd bng dsrdrly. H ntntnlly prvkd th plc nd vryn s jst SHCKD tht thy sd frc t gt hm t cmply.

f h hdn’t rsstd, r bn dch bg n th frst plc, thy wldn’t hv sd th frc thy dd.

lv rdng hw ll y pcnks gt yr pnts n wd whnvr ths knd f thng hppns. Y’r s smg n yr cndmntns f th “nncssry” s f frc. Bt hw d y cm by yr dtrmntn f nncssry? Hv y vr hd t gt cmplnc gnst smn’s wll?

lv t whn ths mmtr ppstnl-dfnt bbs gt swft kck n th rr. nd f y’v ntcd, ll yr mptnt blly-chng hsn’t dn thng t slw th td. Th dmnnt cltr grws wry f yr ntcs s xpct ths knd f thng t b rptd vr nd vr.

Anonymous

@levendus
sniffing glue is bad, m’kay?

JoshuaTerrell

All peaceful protestors should be well armed. Hold your white flag in one hand and your rifle in the other. Peace is not a right, it is earned with blood.

Antinous / Moderator

JoshuaTerrell,

Please don’t bring guns into the discussion.

It is however a very good idea to wear solid shoes or boots, jeans, a heavy long-sleeved shirt and a bike helmet to any demonstration. You can get fancier, but you should at least wear something that provides minimal protection if you get knocked down or pushed into a wall.

peterbruells

@Takuan The text is misleading. The current German government is not conservative, but a coalition of conservatives and social democrats. Well, perhaps it’s all conservative to the author. I’ll note, however, that the German Pirate party is neither left or right, neither conservative or progressive, but at that time expressively concerns itself only with civil rights and privacy. I mention this because the tradional apponent of the conservatives in Germany, the SPD, paved the way to all these issues, while Shily as minister of the interior being as hardassed as SchÃ¤uble, the current minister.

Ursula von der Leyen makes no statements about terrorism – she’s more into child pornography, so to speak.

That CDU and SPD have become nervous about the Pirate party is wishful thinking – their biggest fear is that “Die Linke” (The Left), a neo-socialist party becomes third largest force (which will effectively gut the SPD) and of course the FDP gaining power again. The Pirates may gain a couple of seats but it will be years, if not decades, before they become a big force in parliament. (Which does not mean that they can’t become an important force outside parliament.)

jokel

@#102:
> Its clear that there was a prelude where a woman was beaten by the police before (no video of that) and the guy in the video wanted the ID of the police woman in question – that why he shouts “kÃ¶rperverletzung” and shortly later calls for the ID.

Sorry, but how is it clear? All the sources I’ve seen for the “was asking for a friend” explanation are based on hearsay, whereas either blue shirt guy has a weird way of expressing himself when under stress, or it looks and sounds exactly like what I posted: He is claiming KÃ¶rperverletzung after the shove and asking for the ID number because of that.

@#113:
While poster was correct that wearing obvious body armour (sadly this can indeed include motorcycle clothing) can get you into trouble, I’ve yet to witness issues from just a bike helmet (just to make sure: we’re talking about a push-pike helmet type thing, not a motorcycle helmet). As for the “prey” issue: Agreed. Prey looks invite prey treatment and constant submission is a bad idea, but that breaks down when violence gets involved; police will almost certainly gain the upper hand and, unless there is very conclusive evidence like in this case, get away with it.

mdh

levendus, nice troll there. Getting kinda old though, isn’t it?

Anonymous

@51 Levenedus

Violence, in any form, should always be a last resort. Violence has a lot of side affects, none of them good.

Let’s say I were a police officer attempting to remove an unruly protestor. I, being a professional keeper of the peace, would be both duty and honor bound to take all the verbal abuse he could hurl at me. I would do my best to placate the person in question and calm them, so as to prevent their unruly behavior escalating into dangerous or violent behavior. I would be patient, polite to a point, and sympathetic to the best of my abilities. I would clearly explain why their actions were disruptive, would ask for compliance repeatedly, would explain that failure to comply would violate such and such laws or statutes, I would clearly identify myself, etc.

Police, like anybody else, have no right to thump someone’s fucking skull just because they are being an asshole. If someone cuts you off in traffic, you can’t blow their tires out with a shotgun, even if you are a police officer. The police are given powers to “serve and protect”, but those powers are not free reign of use. So while the reckless driver above should be apprehended and arrested by the police, he should not then afterwards be beaten, under any circumstances.

~D. Walker

Brian Boyko

Hold on – about the comments about Germany being just like the U.S., I would not go that far.

This is for two reasons.

Yes, the cops acted appallingly, and used unjustified excessive force. That CAN happen anywhere in the world.

But there are two differences.

The first difference is in frequency – this is the first time I’ve ever seen anything like this happen in Germany, whereas it’s a weekly occurrence in the U.S.

The second difference is in accountability. In the U.S., the officers involved would most likely be given a suspension, with pay, and an internal investigation would likely conclude that the officer didn’t act inappropriately, and that would be the end of it. The cop wouldn’t even lose his job, let alone end up with a jail sentence.

For example, the video of the handcuffed woman – followed by the cop turning off the camera, and when the camera comes back on, the woman was lying in a pool of her own blood. In that case, the cop not only kept his job, but the judge said that the investigation “violated the cop’s rights.”

Things like this can happen in ANY society – but what separates the enlightened from the barbaric is *what happens next.*

Anonymous

i guess german police has a very long tradition with beating up innocent, whats with the bicyclist- do they bring him to the kz now?

tp1024

Btw. in the demonstration of 20,000 people only 19 were arrested. (For whatever reason. Could be petty theft or non-compliance with orders by the police or whatever.)

So, this demonstration was about as peaceful as it gets and there was no reason for violence by the police. (I’m shocked to see myself writing this.) When I watched the video I found myself thinking “exchange the uniforms for Thor Steiner (=nazi) clothes and this scene would at least begin to make sense” …

Before you judge Germans too harshly though, please do keep in mind even in 2009 Germany is still occupied territory and has yet to gain full sovereignty its state. (Also see covert action by the CIA flying in, out and above the country without being officially recorded.) You can not fully rule out interference by foreign authority.

tp1024

[Sorry, editing my own text resulted in rather garbled grammar. Spelling was fine, of course. Those spell-checkers ruin my grammar ... grrrr]

Btw. in this demonstration of 20,000 people only 19 were arrested. (For whatever reason. Could be petty theft or non-compliance with orders by the police or whatever.)

So, this demonstration was about as peaceful as it gets and there was no reason for violence by the police. (I’m shocked to see myself writing this.) When I watched the video I found myself thinking “exchange the uniforms for Thor Steiner (=neonazi) clothes and this scene would at least begin to make sense” …

Before you judge Germans too harshly though, please do keep in mind, that even in 2009 Germany is still occupied territory and has yet to gain full sovereignty. (Also see covert action by the CIA flying in, out and above the country without being officially recorded.) You can not fully rule out interference by foreign authority.

Anonymous

The ignorance displayed in many of the comments here is astounding. Yes, police force in many situations in parts of the US is excessive and inappropriate, but to label our society as a whole as “barbaric” is to proclaim your absolute ignorance of the US, it’s people, and it’s diversity. I live in San Francisco, one of the most liberated and enlightened cities in the world, and am proud of my city, my state, and my country.

If you feel otherwise, please don’t come here and ruin it for us by introducing your prejudice, ignorance, and misconceptions.

peterbruells

@brian actually, stuff like that happens in Germany quite often too, and Esprit de corps prevents many cases of being resolved adequately. Plus there’s the huge issue of police officer not being identifiable to the public, since they do not carry id numbers. People have to rely on them giving them the correct id which is kinda nonsensical.

Also, since they are actually Beamte, not just employees, their incentive to lie is actually raised – if they do get fired, they lose also their pension. And since the foot-soliders, so to speak, aren’t paid that well, they usually don’t have an extra private pension plan.

mokey

this shit happens all over europe; don’t act surprised that these “liberal” states are violent and sometimes quasi-fascist. if you were to spend, say, a week studying this kind of thing, you’d realize that this is no anomaly, and nothing new. this happens everywhere, all the time, and someone got some footage and for some reason it got attention.

check out what’s happening in greece right now if you want to be up on this. fascists are openly cooperating with police and attacking immigrants and anarchists. a few days ago, an immigrant was beaten nearly to death, and the cops actually kidnapped him from the hospital. he may die soon, we’ll see. but yeah, straight up junta-ists are throwing molotovs from behind police skirmish lines and immigrant squats are getting burnt down weekly. bangladesh is also really heavy right now, algeria’s always sketchy, iceland’s going through some really weird shit. south america is, well, south america. ask obama about it. he’s got the inside scoop on colombia.

these are not isolated incidents. when push comes to shove, cops will “just follow orders.” it’s how shit goes.

oh yeah, germany invented the black bloc in the 80s. just a factoid.

peterbruells

@ TP1024 Let me put this politely: Stop spreading extremist nonsense.

I really, really hate that fricking myth – it’s either used by leftist whackos claiming US and Jewish interference everywhere or by neo-nazo whackos claiming US and Jewish interference everywhere. Grow up, people.

Germany has had full sovereignty since the 4+2 peace accords, ratified in 1991. A peace treaty is not needed and not even wanted. Lots of people remember how well the treaty of Versailles worked and how popular it was in Germany.

Okay, not full sovereignty – Germany quite explicitly ceded territorial sovereignty of the territories under Polish control to Poland.

Takuan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc

Takuan

on the incident: a wonderful thing for Germany – IF this is a Big Deal.

Anonymous

As a german citizen, I stopped participating demonstrations for almost a year, because such kind of behaviour shown by the cops is well known here, although only mentioned in the news if somebody managed to produce evidence like making such a movie. Here in germany, it’s a risky tast to demonstrate for your own rights. Sad but true.

Although most policemen behave sensible, there are always some other who arrest people on the spot for the slightest reason or – as shown on the vid – even may harm them from naught to sixty. As cops in germany don’t bear an id-number on their uniforms, the offender in most cases “can’t be identified” so there is no reason for them to be afraid of legal punishment.

People call germany to be a democracy and a constitutional state. Honestly speaking, I don’t think so.

buddy66

Soothe yourself with *wonderful* Mario Bros. painted fingernails. Bathe in the glow.

Takuan

re-posting something tedious is always lame. Say it another way.

Takuan

or better still, delve, amplify, self-examine and tell us (and you) something we don’t already know.

“shut up”
“no, YOU shut up”
“no! YOU shut up”
“shut up”
“you’re stupid”
“no, you’re stupid”
“shut up”

MyopicTailor111

Sorry, but I donâ€™t for a second understand the idea of bringing body protection to a peaceful protest. The point of civil disobedience is to win a moral victory. It would be much more efficient to invite handicapped people in wheelchairs, bring your elderly grannies from the nurshing homes, bring all your children, and march with babies in baby carriages. Film how events unfold from the rooftops.

The spiral of violence and counter-violence must to some extent be blamed on autonomous anarchists (in Germany in particular) that hate the state and wants to provoke violence as much as possible. Some are politically motivated and have thought about their strategy but there are also pure scumbag thugs that are only in it for the thrill. Some join the left, some join the nazis and some become football hooligans.

These thugs actually sabotage for the serious protesters by undermining the moral legitimacy of protests in general. I would not hesitate for a second to make a citizens arrest if I marched in a peaceful protest and the guy next to me started throwing stones at parked cars, police officers and store windows.

If all protests were peaceful, the police would relax and be less tense and their commanding officers would understand that breaking up such a protest would give the force a bad reputation. The only circumstance to be less Gandhi-like would be in a situation when the authorities ban protest meetings just because they want to suppress criticism.

Antinous / Moderator

Sorry, but I donâ€™t for a second understand the idea of bringing body protection to a peaceful protest.

Well, good luck to you. Even at peaceful protests, crowds get so big that people are slammed into walls, knocked down, pushed in front of cars, etc. If ‘peaceful’ to you means not taking any precautions for your own safety, I’d like to introduce you to a friend of mine named Charles Darwin.

siliconsunset

@28 about large identification on police officers.

In my home town the police officers have elastic bands over the identification numbers on their badges to “keep the badge in place.” It’s a thick band that wraps around the center that just so happens to cover any mark you’d need to identify them without interaction. Most have the same haircut, being former military. The only real way to indentify them is to take note of what kind of sunglasses they are wearing, how tall they are, and whether or not they have mustaches.

Takuan

imbedded RFID chips for cops?

Anonymous

@#57
Well maybe it was the first time you saw such material from germany, but it wasn’t the first time such things happened.
To be honest I think the man in the blue shirt had the “luck” to be beaten on the “right demonstration”. We got lot’s of ppl with cams and even high quality cams there and this isn’t fact on every demonstration.

I’ve seen such scences for example in Ulm on the 1st of May this year, where peaceful protesters of a potential “Black Block” (Well, the wore black, but it was unions youth) were gathered up and fought by the police for about 7 hours before they were set free again. I met some of my friends later that day covered in blood but without cameras. There was no evidence of this ever had happened.

I’ve seen such scence when we protestet in Munich and NÃ¼rnberg against the “Agenda 2010″ and Hartz 4, or the “Vorratsdatenspeicherung”, I’ve seen such scences when we were on street to protest against Nazis marching or Nazi riots. Germany is no exception here to other countries.

And what happend to beating Policemen? Well if accused at all they couldn’t remember a thing, the were in disguise and 2 weeks later you met the same officers beating the shit out of some other ppl on the next demonstration.

Oh and we got a bavarian unit the USK (UnterstÃ¼tzungssonderkommando) which exist just to beat down civil protests. These guys are armed(!) on demonstrations.

Anonymous

All this talk about protests makes me ponder something that has been bugging me. In the US, has anyone heard of the police going all ‘roidal on any of these “teabaggers”? I haven’t and I don’t think it’s coincidental.

Anonymous

MyopicTailor, yes, it would be best to have grannies and babies in carriages at the protest. But the wheelchairs and carriages should probably be pushed by sturdy young people with at least minimal self-defense training.

Personally, the only times I ever go unarmed and unarmored are at protest demonstrations and when bathing. (I still haven’t figured out Musashi’s bathhouse trick, Takuan is no help on that one).

buddy66

I don’t wish to extenuate violence at any intended peaceful demonstration anywhere, but it’s an old and ongoing story. I’ve seen it from Mexico City to Montreal (and notorious places in between) and it’s what cops do. It’s just police business as usual, alas.

Anonymous

! FollowUp !

Official statement of Berlin Police:

The officer responsible is identified and will be removed from the riot squad, but not from general duty.
They don’t see any reason for harsher disciplinary punishment, since he never caused any problems before.

Criminal investigation is still running …

fALk

Meanwhile more videos and eywitness accounts surface (including someone who was arrested for 7 hours without being told a reason before the demonstration even started) that show this was not an isolated incident at the event.

Again I was there I was about 20-30 meters away from the “blue man” arrest and watched the police before the arrest and they where provoking. They pushed people a camera in the face pushed people around standing in full body armor in the middle of the demonstration trying to isolate groups of people (no not black block) – there was absolutely nothing from the side of the protesters to warrant such behaviours – no stones or bottles flying or other kind of violence over the whole of the demonstration.

In one of the newer videos that was shot just shortly after the arrest above you see the police punching a girl who was standing by right in the face (they came towards her). In another arrest before the video above the police grabs somebody out of the mass of people and also punches him repeatedly in the face.

Very sad – but I was at the demonstration because I can clearly see germany turning slowly into a police state – its so visible all around and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Anonymous

What’s screwy to me is that this kind of police violence is now completely normal in the US and happens at almost every public event with even a slight leftist bent, and we accept it here as the new normal. 9/11 changed more than we realize.

fALk

The video is all over the german mainstream media and its become a huge issue! Thanks for spreading the message boingboing!

Its clear that there was a prelude where a woman was beaten by the police before (no video of that) and the guy in the video wanted the ID of the police woman in question – that why he shouts “kÃ¶rperverletzung” and shortly later calls for the ID. The police is not “clearing the area” they are telling people to get away because they where to nosy trying to find out the ID. Two police man have been indicted and await trial – just that normally these trials are never going anywhere because nobody can ever find out who the policeofficer is and get instead a counter trial for inciting violence or resisting arrest. This time all thing considered it might turn out different – the police is definitively in defence mode even acknowledging that this is not “normal” (which it is especially with the police unit in question which is known for its brutality). Some people who got hurt are affiliates of the Chaos Computer Club and are your usual nerds.
The lawyer for the guy in the blue shirt has submitted a statement that sends shivers down your spine – not only has he got hits into the face as seen on the video he was also repeatedly kicked in the stomach and his head hit against the van in the background and also harassed inside the police car. There are at least two more videos of that that have not been released as of yet.

Takuan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STiuregSvHg

Takuan

If you don’t like
What you got
Why don’t you change it
If your world is all screwed up
Rearrange it

Raise a little Hell …

If you don’t like what you see
Why don’t you fight it
If you know there’s something wrong
Why don’t you right it

Raise a little Hell …

In the end it comes down to your thinking
And there’s really nobody to blame
When it feels like your ship is sinking
And you’re too tired to play the game

Nobody’s going to help you
You’ve just got to stand up alone
And dig in your heels
And see how it feels
To raise a little Hell of your own

Raise a little Hell …

If you don’t like
What you got
Why don’t you change it
If your world is all screwed up
Rearrange it

Raise a little Hell …

Piers W

#24 webmonkees

That’s a great idea, and could be applied to all kinds of people who have authority or power without expertise. And indeed those who have authority that stems from expertise who’ve got a bit too used to being ‘experts’.

Anonymous

This is going to continue everywhere until people will start to defend themselves. First peacefully by explicitly asking their representatives to push for:

1 – obligatory identification numbers on cops uniforms and names-numbers pairs published on police sites *before* any deployment.
2 – laws that allow any citizen to refuse to obey any order given by an unidentifiable officer.
3 – drug tests for all officers involved in any suspected abuse case.

Then giving maximum publicity and coverage to the names of those politicians who agree and those who don’t (there go their votes).

If the above doesn’t work, as a last resort, I’d say protesters should consider active self defense (beating the hell out of those bastards) as an option.
Being against violence is one thing, putting ourselves in the situation of being abused forever because it fits the interests of some corporations is stupid.

Yamara

All protesters would need is some of this…

Gas of Peace

…and, well, a bomber group.

Takuan

for the cops?

Anonymous

I am deeply disappointed by the Berlin Police’s actions. This goes against my years of positive contact with them. I live in Berlin but am from New Zealand.

I live in the exact area of Berlin Mitte where the demo happened, watched the protest out of my window, and rode my bike later through the area.
It was very loud but very peaceful.
I have also participated in many German protests including several hours several times in German holding cells. I also have experience through protests with Police in NZ, the USA, UK, Australia, Sweden, Spain, Netherlands etc.
Until now I have always easily rated the Berlin Police as the most professional, best trained, and least likely to lose control – of any Police Force anywhere.
Why?
Because German Police are always aware they may be compared with the Gestapo.
This normally removes standard Police arrogance.
In this case I am DEEPLY disappointed.

Anonymous

Haven’t seen this footage before, but as far as I know there is a law in Germany, that gives every citizen the right to get the name of a policemen, if he encounters unfair behavior.

In that case, every policemen has to stand by and wait ’til another policemen drops by to gather the situation. Knowing this, the guy with the blue shirt has been treated unfair twice and the argument of sending him off by the police is a f***ing joke.

There will be no enlightment at all. As one said, there goes democracy but what do we expect, if their boss is SchÃ¤uble.

Takuan

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/09/sonic-blaster-deployed-to-local-political-events-beach-competition/

brooklyntwang

So, nobody is going to comment on the irony of people getting the hell beat out of them at a “freedom not fear” rally? Its like everyone getting stuck in the broom closet at a convention against claustrophobia or something.

peterbruells

What really ticks me off in these discussions, though, is the naive way in which even simple acts of violence are being compared to brutal and excessive beatings. (Which, I have not doubt, happen.)

Guys, if you get in trouble with police – or anyone else, for that matter – that people have to forcefully restrain you, expect a beating and hurting. Because there is no other way. No policeman, no private citizen will or even should risk getting hurt when executing a legal arrest. There is no vulcan nerve pinch and even police officers are not taught magical spells of subduing which make people stand still.

For the Germans in this board: Look at the current case in Munich and ask yourself how you would have stopped those thugs – and why police should have to assume that the blueshirted bicyclist was a harmless fella.

Antinous / Moderator

Guys, if you get in trouble with police – or anyone else, for that matter – that people have to forcefully restrain you, expect a beating and hurting.

Once upon a time, there was this idea that police don’t use violence unless they or someone else is under the threat of violence. “I’m going to beat you because you didn’t respect my authoriteh” is bullshit and, given history, a rather embarrassing position for a German to defend.

failix

Holy crap…o.k. I’m a little late on this… I went to “freedom not fear” in Berlin last year, but couldn’t make it this year (I live in the far south of Germany)…

Though I’d like to add a little word on police brutality in Germany (and probably in many other countries). I go quite frequently to demonstrations in my area. Whenever the police hits an innocent person, the police always blames “radicals”, “left-wing extremists” etc. Even if most of the time, the victims of such violence aren’t even “radicals”. But the press blames “radicals”, and everybody else blames “radicals”.
Then they pass laws in order to have more control over “radicals” and to make it “safer” for everybody else… yeah sure…
Meanwhile the main problem remains unsolved: Police brutality! (and police in general ;-) )

The police hit a random guy (not even a “hooligan”) and some people still have the nerve to say things like: “yeah I don’t like police brutality but hooligans are bad”… As if the fact that “radicals” can cause some “trouble” from time to time was a good reason for random people to get hit and assaulted by 5 police officers…

MrJM

First they came for the protesters,
and I did not speak out —
because I was not a protester…

– MrJM

Brutal police violence at Berlin "Freedom not Fear" demonstration

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